Celebrating Secession?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
81

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

It’s the actions, stupid!

If you piss on someone and call it rain does it change the fact that you just pissed on someone?

Goddamn, you’re dumb.[/quote]

You keep equating slavery with taxation and you are calling me dumb?

Don’t they limit access to the internet in mental institutions anymore?[/quote]

Taxation is a form a slavery. Period. They will even pull guns on you and throw you in jail for decades if you don’t hand over your money.

It is a nicer more polite form of slavery, but yes, it’s the same thing.

82

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

It’s the actions, stupid!

If you piss on someone and call it rain does it change the fact that you just pissed on someone?

Goddamn, you’re dumb.[/quote]

You keep equating slavery with taxation and you are calling me dumb?

Don’t they limit access to the internet in mental institutions anymore?[/quote]

Taxation is a form a slavery. Period. They will even pull guns on you and throw you in jail for decades if you don’t hand over your money.

It is a nicer more polite form of slavery, but yes, it’s the same thing.[/quote]

No it isn’t. Holy shit it is rhetoric like this that sets the libertarian cause back.

If you want to equate taxation with something bad call it extortion. It isn’t slavery. Words have meanings.

83

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

It’s the actions, stupid!

If you piss on someone and call it rain does it change the fact that you just pissed on someone?

Goddamn, you’re dumb.[/quote]

You keep equating slavery with taxation and you are calling me dumb?

Don’t they limit access to the internet in mental institutions anymore?[/quote]

Taxation is a form a slavery. Period. They will even pull guns on you and throw you in jail for decades if you don’t hand over your money.

It is a nicer more polite form of slavery, but yes, it’s the same thing.[/quote]

No it isn’t. Holy shit it is rhetoric like this that sets the libertarian cause back.

If you want to equate taxation with something bad call it extortion. It isn’t slavery. Words have meanings.[/quote]

The government forces me to work to the benefit of others under threat of violence and deprivation of rights. That is the truth of it. Don’t get mad at me for refusing to play word games.

84

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

It’s the actions, stupid!

If you piss on someone and call it rain does it change the fact that you just pissed on someone?

Goddamn, you’re dumb.[/quote]

You keep equating slavery with taxation and you are calling me dumb?

Don’t they limit access to the internet in mental institutions anymore?[/quote]

Taxation is a form a slavery. Period. They will even pull guns on you and throw you in jail for decades if you don’t hand over your money.

It is a nicer more polite form of slavery, but yes, it’s the same thing.[/quote]

No it isn’t. Holy shit it is rhetoric like this that sets the libertarian cause back.

If you want to equate taxation with something bad call it extortion. It isn’t slavery. Words have meanings.[/quote]

The government forces me to work to the benefit of others under threat of violence and deprivation of rights. That is the truth of it. Don’t get mad at me for refusing to play word games.[/quote]

You are not forced to work. 10% of the country is unemployed!

You chose to work and the government gets a cut. Very different.

You only hurt the cause of limiting government when you throw around terms like slavery.

85

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You are not forced to work.[/quote]

Only if you have slaves to feed you, you fucking moron!!

86

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

It’s the actions, stupid!

If you piss on someone and call it rain does it change the fact that you just pissed on someone?

Goddamn, you’re dumb.[/quote]

You keep equating slavery with taxation and you are calling me dumb?

Don’t they limit access to the internet in mental institutions anymore?[/quote]

Taxation is a form a slavery. Period. They will even pull guns on you and throw you in jail for decades if you don’t hand over your money.

It is a nicer more polite form of slavery, but yes, it’s the same thing.[/quote]

No it isn’t. Holy shit it is rhetoric like this that sets the libertarian cause back.

If you want to equate taxation with something bad call it extortion. It isn’t slavery. Words have meanings.[/quote]

The government forces me to work to the benefit of others under threat of violence and deprivation of rights. That is the truth of it. Don’t get mad at me for refusing to play word games.[/quote]

You are not forced to work. 10% of the country is unemployed!

You chose to work and the government gets a cut. Very different.

You only hurt the cause of limiting government when you throw around terms like slavery.[/quote]

And if they started taxing air, your argument would be, “you can not breath”. I have to make a living. I have to feed myself and my family. I have to work.

People, who live in a different place, bearing no direct consequence or benefit of my labor, will come to my house with guns and take what some bureaucrat in Washington deems as property of the collective. Period. I can refer to taxation as “taking of possessions under threat of violence” if you’d prefer.

87

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You are not forced to work.[/quote]

Only if you have slaves to feed you, you fucking moron!![/quote]

What if you live off an inheritance?

Your idea of slavery is ridiculous.

Words have meaning, that is why we use them. Taxation is not slavery. Babies are not parasites.

88

DD, what the simpletons don’t understand is that language has always been bastardized by the establishment to subdue the will of the masses and keep us docile. If the establishment can infect language to their benefit retaining power is much easier for them.

However, their efforts are easily bested by simply ignoring what they say and only look at what they do.

Indeed, actions speak louder than words.

89

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

It’s the actions, stupid!

If you piss on someone and call it rain does it change the fact that you just pissed on someone?

Goddamn, you’re dumb.[/quote]

You keep equating slavery with taxation and you are calling me dumb?

Don’t they limit access to the internet in mental institutions anymore?[/quote]

Taxation is a form a slavery. Period. They will even pull guns on you and throw you in jail for decades if you don’t hand over your money.

It is a nicer more polite form of slavery, but yes, it’s the same thing.[/quote]

No it isn’t. Holy shit it is rhetoric like this that sets the libertarian cause back.

If you want to equate taxation with something bad call it extortion. It isn’t slavery. Words have meanings.[/quote]

The government forces me to work to the benefit of others under threat of violence and deprivation of rights. That is the truth of it. Don’t get mad at me for refusing to play word games.[/quote]

You’ve read too much Harry Browne

90

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
You are not forced to work.[/quote]

Only if you have slaves to feed you, you fucking moron!![/quote]

What if you live off an inheritance?

Your idea of slavery is ridiculous.

Words have meaning, that is why we use them. Taxation is not slavery. Babies are not parasites. [/quote]

Slavery is more than just about putting someone in chains – it is about controlling behavior and actions and limiting choices – which negates the essence of freedom. The way I see it your idea of slavery is too simple and must be expanded to fit reality.

Yes, you can live off of an inheritance only because someone else worked before you to amass that wealth in the first place. Of course, you will only come to an inheritance after Johnny Fat-Pockets gets his cut first.

Labor is the most fundamental currency there is and the government, through taxation, presumes to own it.

91

[quote]kamui wrote:
yep
having to pay for public services and public infrastructures is exactly the same thing than being the private tool of another man for your whole life.

[/quote]

So the fact that you are a public tool changes everything?

92

I find it absolutely hysterical that people on here think that Lincoln “went to war” over economics first and foremost. If Lincoln was so concerned about money, why would he have run on a platform that would have virtually guaranteed the loss of revenue from cotton production?

Why did he oppose the extension of slavery into the territories, basically an opposition of an extension of revenue into the territories?

When the war began to drag on much further than most anticipated it would, why did Lincoln then change his stance and decide that not only should slavery not extend into the territories, but it should also not exist anywhere?

If Lincoln was so concerned about money, why did he not offer some sort of amnesty and the guarantee that slavery could continue to exist in the seceded states if they rejoined the Union?

Why would Lincoln issue the Emancipation Proclamation and virtually permanently remove the very thing that guaranteed that cotton production would remain economically viable for the entire country?

If Lincoln was so concerned about the revenue stream from the South (which was dwindling more and more each year as the Industrial Revolution made its way across the Atlantic from Europe), why would he undermine it by beginning to import cotton from India and Egypt?

If money was what motivated Lincoln, the why did he not allow the Southern states to rejoin the Union as slave states or make any attempt to create legislature that would have protected the institution of slavery (and therefore the main factor behind the profits from cotton). Why did he “go to war” at all, given that war in the South was guaranteed to undermine any economic power that the South had?

If those who truly believe that Lincoln was motivated purely or primarily by economic gain, then answer these questions, because his actions, his speeches and his private correspondences fly in the face of this “economic motivation” theory.

93

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Slavery and income taxation are the same thing.
…[/quote]

Tell that to a slave.

Taxation is not slavery. Taxation is not theft. Maybe you can equate taxation with extortion in some cases but your type of rhetoric makes intelligent discussion very difficult.[/quote]

Of course it is not theft.

Due to the reoccuring and legal nature of it it is a form of slavery/servitude.

94

[quote]kamui wrote:
you don’t have chains.
if you don’t want to be taxed, no one is forcing you. you are free to leave.

slaves were not.

there is many countries with little to no individual taxes.
Azerbaidjan, Malawi, for example.

i would suggest you to move to Andorra.

it’s not the third world, the landscape is beautiful, and, when you will grow old and pragmatic, you will be just a few miles afar of the greatest wines and the best socialized medecine in the world. [/quote]

That is not true because the US taxes its citizens even if they leave the country.

Also, if it were true, who does that make it diferent from any other kind of slavery?

If you flee, you are no longer a slave.

95

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Slavery and income taxation are the same thing.
…[/quote]

Tell that to a slave.

Taxation is not slavery. Taxation is not theft. Maybe you can equate taxation with extortion in some cases but your type of rhetoric makes intelligent discussion very difficult.[/quote]

It is the consequences of an actions that matter; I do not care what what words are made up by the established order to explain itself. The end result tells us all we need to know about an action.

Taking my money and telling me what I deserve to keep is most certainly slavery. At the end of the day I do not own my labor.

Don’t piss on me and tell me it’s rain.[/quote]

If I agree not to call piss rain will you agree not to call taxation slavery?
[/quote]

If said “rain” comes from someones bladder it is piss, even if you insist that it isnt.

Dont you find it telling that noone has even adressed how taxation is not a form of slavery?

Right now we have two pages telling us that it isnt because it isnt, which is not very convincing to say the least.

If it is that painfully obvious, what are we missing?

96

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Slavery and income taxation are the same thing.
…[/quote]

Tell that to a slave.

Taxation is not slavery. Taxation is not theft. Maybe you can equate taxation with extortion in some cases but your type of rhetoric makes intelligent discussion very difficult.[/quote]

It is the consequences of an actions that matter; I do not care what what words are made up by the established order to explain itself. The end result tells us all we need to know about an action.

Taking my money and telling me what I deserve to keep is most certainly slavery. At the end of the day I do not own my labor.

Don’t piss on me and tell me it’s rain.[/quote]

If I agree not to call piss rain will you agree not to call taxation slavery?
[/quote]

It is the actions and their consequences – not the words to describe the actions – that matter. With taxation at the end of the day I have no choice. I am either a slave to some government here or a slave to a government somewhere else. That is no choice.

…like talking to a brick wall.[/quote]

You cannot differentiate between slavery and taxation so it is apparent you are the wall.

And if the words don’t matter please explain why you worry about calling piss rain.[/quote]

Actually it is you who failed to differentiate between the two with every post that you made.

When are you going to start?

97

Orion there is no point in continuing to argue with Lifticus. He has clearly arrived at a conclusion that is not based in fact, analysis of primary historical evidence or rational thought and is now trying to mold the circumstances to fit this ill-begotten conclusion of his, rather than let the circumstances mold the conclusion. There is nothing at all that can ever change his mind; you are simply spinning your wheels. Ignore him and he will go away.

98

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

The government forces me to work to the benefit of others under threat of violence and deprivation of rights. That is the truth of it. Don’t get mad at me for refusing to play word games.[/quote]

You’ve read too much Harry Browne[/quote]

I’ve read no harry browne. the funny thing is that I’m not in any way stating opinion. What I stated was an absolute fact. People who are getting upset with that need to re-evaluate some things. They are arguing against the facts, not me.

99

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

The government forces me to work to the benefit of others under threat of violence and deprivation of rights. That is the truth of it. Don’t get mad at me for refusing to play word games.[/quote]

You’ve read too much Harry Browne[/quote]

I’ve read no harry browne. the funny thing is that I’m not in any way stating opinion. What I stated was an absolute fact. People who are getting upset with that need to re-evaluate some things. They are arguing against the facts, not me.[/quote]

You derive a benefit from taxes. There are social services made available to you, you can write off a home mortgage, you drive on paved roads, have electricity 24 hours a day, you can send your children to school for free, there are state university systems that provide (relatively) cheap education and so on. All because of taxes. THAT is the truth of it.

It says nowhere in the Constitution that you have the right to not pay taxes; you have the right to representation along with taxation. If you do not pay taxes, you have broken the law and nowhere are you guaranteed the right to break the law. If you or anyone else thinks that there is any correlation whatsoever between slavery and taxation you are wrong. There is NO benefit derived from being enslaved, but there clearly is with taxation.

Not all taxes are good, but NO slavery is good. To equate the two or to argue that the two are similar in any way is beyond ignorant.

100

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I find it absolutely hysterical that people on here think that Lincoln “went to war” over economics first and foremost. If Lincoln was so concerned about money, why would he have run on a platform that would have virtually guaranteed the loss of revenue from cotton production?

Why did he oppose the extension of slavery into the territories, basically an opposition of an extension of revenue into the territories?

When the war began to drag on much further than most anticipated it would, why did Lincoln then change his stance and decide that not only should slavery not extend into the territories, but it should also not exist anywhere?

If Lincoln was so concerned about money, why did he not offer some sort of amnesty and the guarantee that slavery could continue to exist in the seceded states if they rejoined the Union?

Why would Lincoln issue the Emancipation Proclamation and virtually permanently remove the very thing that guaranteed that cotton production would remain economically viable for the entire country?

If Lincoln was so concerned about the revenue stream from the South (which was dwindling more and more each year as the Industrial Revolution made its way across the Atlantic from Europe), why would he undermine it by beginning to import cotton from India and Egypt?

If money was what motivated Lincoln, the why did he not allow the Southern states to rejoin the Union as slave states or make any attempt to create legislature that would have protected the institution of slavery (and therefore the main factor behind the profits from cotton). Why did he “go to war” at all, given that war in the South was guaranteed to undermine any economic power that the South had?

If those who truly believe that Lincoln was motivated purely or primarily by economic gain, then answer these questions, because his actions, his speeches and his private correspondences fly in the face of this “economic motivation” theory.[/quote]

You haven’t the first clue about economics.

Edify yourself and then rejoin the discussion.