[quote]forlife wrote:
I agree, Rome is the favorite city I’ve visited so far. However, the basilica isn’t actually proven to be built on Peter’s tomb. It’s a convenient claim, but nothing more than that.[/quote]
Well, I guess you could say it has never been proven, but then again it would be strange if someone else’s bones were in St. Peter’s tomb.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
I agree, Rome is the favorite city I’ve visited so far. However, the basilica isn’t actually proven to be built on Peter’s tomb. It’s a convenient claim, but nothing more than that.[/quote]
Well, I guess you could say it has never been proven, but then again it would be strange if someone else’s bones were in St. Peter’s tomb.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure there wasn’t a tombstone with St. Peter’s name on it 
It was a set of bones, nothing more, that the church decided to declare to be the very bones of Peter himself…based on…the church’s declaration.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
I agree, Rome is the favorite city I’ve visited so far. However, the basilica isn’t actually proven to be built on Peter’s tomb. It’s a convenient claim, but nothing more than that.[/quote]
Well, I guess you could say it has never been proven, but then again it would be strange if someone else’s bones were in St. Peter’s tomb.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure there wasn’t a tombstone with St. Peter’s name on it It was a set of bones, nothing more, that the church decided to declare to be the very bones of Peter himself…based on…the church’s declaration.[/quote]
However, just like most stuff that old, the sources are slim. So, they pretty damn sure it’s Peter, but of course not 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt…I am sure some modern forensics could tell if the victim was crucified upside down or at least crucified.
They seem to be pretty certain about St. Paul… Of course it’s easy to tell if one has been beheaded. It tends to leave a scratch.
In any event you want to talk about sealed, nobody is gettin’ to those tombs.
I am just glad the Holy See is not in Jerusalem.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
…wait, what? St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s tombs are in Rome.[/quote]
You of all people need to go there. The whole city is awesome, except for the pan handlers…They are better or worse depending on when the city decides to crack down on them. I went during after a mass eviction.
It’s hard to argue with Rome, The Vatican beautiful city, so much history you can’t take it all in, proper Italian food, hot Roman babes,…There’s just not a lot to argue about Rome…Except the subways…They are dreadful…And it’s expensive and the dollar is worthless right now.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
I agree, Rome is the favorite city I’ve visited so far. However, the basilica isn’t actually proven to be built on Peter’s tomb. It’s a convenient claim, but nothing more than that.[/quote]
Well, I guess you could say it has never been proven, but then again it would be strange if someone else’s bones were in St. Peter’s tomb.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure there wasn’t a tombstone with St. Peter’s name on it It was a set of bones, nothing more, that the church decided to declare to be the very bones of Peter himself…based on…the church’s declaration.[/quote]
Of course there wouldn’t be a tombstone, it is not a grave yard. However, the tomb is known.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
…wait, what? St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s tombs are in Rome.[/quote]
You of all people need to go there. The whole city is awesome, except for the pan handlers…They are better or worse depending on when the city decides to crack down on them. I went during after a mass eviction.
It’s hard to argue with Rome, The Vatican beautiful city, so much history you can’t take it all in, proper Italian food, hot Roman babes,…There’s just not a lot to argue about Rome…Except the subways…They are dreadful…And it’s expensive and the dollar is worthless right now.
[/quote]
I wanted to go to Madrid (which would have taken me on a trip through Rome), to go to WYD. But, alas no money to spend on that right now. Too busy investing.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
I agree, Rome is the favorite city I’ve visited so far. However, the basilica isn’t actually proven to be built on Peter’s tomb. It’s a convenient claim, but nothing more than that.[/quote]
Well, I guess you could say it has never been proven, but then again it would be strange if someone else’s bones were in St. Peter’s tomb.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure there wasn’t a tombstone with St. Peter’s name on it It was a set of bones, nothing more, that the church decided to declare to be the very bones of Peter himself…based on…the church’s declaration.[/quote]
Of course there wouldn’t be a tombstone, it is not a grave yard. However, the tomb is known.[/quote]
Actually, it’s not. But that’s ok if you have a different opinion. The basilica is incredibly opulent, over the top really. The best part of it wasn’t Peter’s tomb, but Michelangelo’s pieta.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Actually, it’s not. But that’s ok if you have a different opinion. The basilica is incredibly opulent, over the top really. The best part of it wasn’t Peter’s tomb, but Michelangelo’s pieta.[/quote]
Is it really my opinion when it is held by others and has been passed through oral tradition and there is evidence (such as inscriptions, &c.)?
I’m not sure how the place where God lives can be over the top, really. What do you mean by that?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Actually, it’s not. But that’s ok if you have a different opinion. The basilica is incredibly opulent, over the top really. The best part of it wasn’t Peter’s tomb, but Michelangelo’s pieta.[/quote]
Is it really my opinion when it is held by others and has been passed through oral tradition and there is evidence (such as inscriptions, &c.)?
I’m not sure how the place where God lives can be over the top, really. What do you mean by that?[/quote]
It seemed ostentatious. Christ was born in a stable, criticized the rich, spent his entire life with the poor and meek, and I can’t imagine him choosing to live there.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Actually, it’s not. But that’s ok if you have a different opinion. The basilica is incredibly opulent, over the top really. The best part of it wasn’t Peter’s tomb, but Michelangelo’s pieta.[/quote]
Is it really my opinion when it is held by others and has been passed through oral tradition and there is evidence (such as inscriptions, &c.)?
I’m not sure how the place where God lives can be over the top, really. What do you mean by that?[/quote]
It seemed ostentatious. Christ was born in a stable, criticized the rich, spent his entire life with the poor and meek, and I can’t imagine him choosing to live there.[/quote]
True, but I don’t recall God being all pissed off about the house that Solomon built for Him. So, I think people take this poverty thing a little to far. The Vatican is after all an entire country.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Actually, it’s not. But that’s ok if you have a different opinion. The basilica is incredibly opulent, over the top really. The best part of it wasn’t Peter’s tomb, but Michelangelo’s pieta.[/quote]
Is it really my opinion when it is held by others and has been passed through oral tradition and there is evidence (such as inscriptions, &c.)?
I’m not sure how the place where God lives can be over the top, really. What do you mean by that?[/quote]
It seemed ostentatious. Christ was born in a stable, criticized the rich, spent his entire life with the poor and meek, and I can’t imagine him choosing to live there.[/quote]
Yes, and that stable is now a very large sanctuary. I don’t remember him criticizing Lazarus or being upset that he was put in a tomb (by a rich Jew) after he died, and he spent time with the not so poor and the not so meek:
Not so poor:
Lazarus
Mary
Martha (the first three were siblings)
Judas
Guy that paid to put Jesus’ body in tomb (forget his name)
Pharisees
Tax collectors
Not so meek:
Peter
James
John
James and John’s mother
Samaritan woman
Himself
And, by not so meek, I mean they weren’t meek towards men.
Matthew 19:24
[quote]Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the
eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
God.[/quote]
1st Timothy 6:7-10
[quote]7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we
can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and
into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction
and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some
coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves
through with many sorrows.[/quote]
Matthew 6:19-21
[quote]19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth
nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor
steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.[/quote]
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Actually, it’s not. But that’s ok if you have a different opinion. The basilica is incredibly opulent, over the top really. The best part of it wasn’t Peter’s tomb, but Michelangelo’s pieta.[/quote]
Is it really my opinion when it is held by others and has been passed through oral tradition and there is evidence (such as inscriptions, &c.)?
I’m not sure how the place where God lives can be over the top, really. What do you mean by that?[/quote]
It seemed ostentatious. Christ was born in a stable, criticized the rich, spent his entire life with the poor and meek, and I can’t imagine him choosing to live there.[/quote]
Yes, and that stable is now a very large sanctuary. I don’t remember him criticizing Lazarus or being upset that he was put in a tomb (by a rich Jew) after he died, and he spent time with the not so poor and the not so meek:
Not so poor:
Lazarus
Mary
Martha (the first three were siblings)
Judas
Guy that paid to put Jesus’ body in tomb (forget his name)
Pharisees
Tax collectors
Not so meek:
Peter
James
John
James and John’s mother
Samaritan woman
Himself
And, by not so meek, I mean they weren’t meek towards men.[/quote]
Joseph of Arimathea.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Matthew 19:24
[quote]Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the
eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
God.[/quote]
1st Timothy 6:7-10
[quote]7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we
can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and
into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction
and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some
coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves
through with many sorrows.[/quote]
Matthew 6:19-21
[quote]19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth
nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor
steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.[/quote][/quote]
The Vatican is God’s house…I think after what he went through he deserves a nice pad, don’t you? I mean seriously, he is going to sacrifice himself for our sins and we’re going to build him a shack?
It is the center of Christianity, it’s country and it was a political powerhouse, it’s ok if it’s big and beautiful. Even protestants have to admit they draw their roots from Rome. They may hate it, but if it didn’t exist, they would not exist, period. All early Christian history is Catholic history. If they are talking apostles or early church fathers they are talking about Catholicism.
You can’t take history away from us. We have it in spades.
Seriously you could spend a week just on the vatican there is so much to see. All the paintings, are not paintings at all, they are intricate mosaics, but you cannot tell unless you come up close to them. All the lettering inside of St Peter’s dome varies in height from like 2 to 3 meters but based on perspective, they all look about 3 feet high and all look the same. It’s awesome.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Matthew 19:24
[quote]Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the
eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
God.[/quote]
[/quote]
Yes, rich folks still need to be baptized and repent, have faith and do works, and all together die in a state of Grace. Their was an idea that those who were rich were favored by God. Jesus said, not so.
[quote]1st Timothy 6:7-10
[quote]7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we
can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and
into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction
and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some
coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves
through with many sorrows.[/quote]
[/quote]
Love of money…rich folks can still love Jesus. Obviously Lazarus loved Jesus, loved him so much that after three days Jesus raised him from the dead. Just because you have money doesn’t mean you love it. Obtaining money as an end instead of a means is more a contemporary understanding, I suppose.
[quote]Matthew 6:19-21
[quote]19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth
and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth
nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor
steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.[/quote][/quote]
Yes, again. Like I pointed out in the above two, you have to work for Heaven. This doesn’t mean you can’t be rich, but like the second verse it’s saying if you spend your time building up riches on earth it don’t matter. What matters is the riches in Heaven. Can you become rich? Sure, plenty of people do. Is that going to get you to Heaven? No, but building up treasures in Heaven will. Can you do both? Yes. Look at the owner (ex owner?) of Dominoes, dude gives tons of money to charity and to nuns and such. Someone’s got to pay for charity. 
Most beautiful part of Mass.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
…wait, what? St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s tombs are in Rome.[/quote]
You of all people need to go there. The whole city is awesome, except for the pan handlers…They are better or worse depending on when the city decides to crack down on them. I went during after a mass eviction.
It’s hard to argue with Rome, The Vatican beautiful city, so much history you can’t take it all in, proper Italian food, hot Roman babes,…There’s just not a lot to argue about Rome…Except the subways…They are dreadful…And it’s expensive and the dollar is worthless right now.
[/quote]
I wanted to go to Madrid (which would have taken me on a trip through Rome), to go to WYD. But, alas no money to spend on that right now. Too busy investing.[/quote]
“Too busy investing.” ← Ouch…
I will give you some unsolicited advice. The sooner you start to travel the better. You are young and you are not tied down. When that status changes, it’s over. It’s waaaay more difficult to do it later. Right now the world is your oyster open it.
Investing sounds all responsible and smart but the value traveling the world can’t be measured. I traveled a ton, I saw the world. It was the best education I ever had. And it was a absolute blast!
Madrid is pretty cool, the city is surrounded by gates, they used the hang people from those gates. But Northern Spain is absolutely stunning…And you can buy 'roids over the counter too ;).
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Most beautiful part of Mass.[/quote]
Amen.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
…wait, what? St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s tombs are in Rome.[/quote]
You of all people need to go there. The whole city is awesome, except for the pan handlers…They are better or worse depending on when the city decides to crack down on them. I went during after a mass eviction.
It’s hard to argue with Rome, The Vatican beautiful city, so much history you can’t take it all in, proper Italian food, hot Roman babes,…There’s just not a lot to argue about Rome…Except the subways…They are dreadful…And it’s expensive and the dollar is worthless right now.
[/quote]
I wanted to go to Madrid (which would have taken me on a trip through Rome), to go to WYD. But, alas no money to spend on that right now. Too busy investing.[/quote]
“Too busy investing.” ← Ouch…
I will give you some unsolicited advice. The sooner you start to travel the better. You are young and you are not tied down. When that status changes, it’s over. It’s waaaay more difficult to do it later. Right now the world is your oyster open it.
Investing sounds all responsible and smart but the value traveling the world can’t be measured. I traveled a ton, I saw the world. It was the best education I ever had. And it was a absolute blast!
Madrid is pretty cool, the city is surrounded by gates, they used the hang people from those gates. But Northern Spain is absolutely stunning…And you can buy 'roids over the counter too ;).[/quote]
Agree with this 100%. Particularly for someone who is already curious and inquisitive. The places I’ve gone and the experiences I’ve had are worth more than than any amount of money could possibly buy. In fact, that’s actually one of the primary services my business here offers. I wanted to give Japanese kids the opportunities that I was given, to go to other countries and experience other cultures and have their worlds rocked by new perspectives and ways of doing and thinking about things that they’d until then never even imagined. I am immeasurably privileged to be able to provide them this opportunity now. It’s good stuff, man. It IS an investment.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
…wait, what? St. Peter’s and St. Paul’s tombs are in Rome.[/quote]
You of all people need to go there. The whole city is awesome, except for the pan handlers…They are better or worse depending on when the city decides to crack down on them. I went during after a mass eviction.
It’s hard to argue with Rome, The Vatican beautiful city, so much history you can’t take it all in, proper Italian food, hot Roman babes,…There’s just not a lot to argue about Rome…Except the subways…They are dreadful…And it’s expensive and the dollar is worthless right now.
[/quote]
I wanted to go to Madrid (which would have taken me on a trip through Rome), to go to WYD. But, alas no money to spend on that right now. Too busy investing.[/quote]
“Too busy investing.” ← Ouch…
I will give you some unsolicited advice. The sooner you start to travel the better. You are young and you are not tied down. When that status changes, it’s over. It’s waaaay more difficult to do it later. Right now the world is your oyster open it.
Investing sounds all responsible and smart but the value traveling the world can’t be measured. I traveled a ton, I saw the world. It was the best education I ever had. And it was a absolute blast!
Madrid is pretty cool, the city is surrounded by gates, they used the hang people from those gates. But Northern Spain is absolutely stunning…And you can buy 'roids over the counter too ;).[/quote]
I think you missed the first part, no dough. If I had the money to go, I would have gone. I’m planning my trip to Rio for the next WYD.