[quote]Kuz wrote:
WMD wrote:
Christian reasoning on this issue is perverse beyond description. Zap, this very thing here is why I delight in tearing down religious beliefs. If it weren’t for the religious beliefs of some people, gays would be treated with dignity, like they were on an equal footing with other Americans. I recognize that people have the right to believe as they wish. I don’t have to respect those beliefs if they are stupid and/or harmful to other human beings.
While I personally have no issue with someone being gay, I call BS on this to a certain degree. If you think that religion is the sole reason that gays are treated the way they are (and I would admit it is definitely part of it), I think you are giving way too much credit to all of the the bigots out there. People tend to fear and loathe that which is different from them, whether based on race, religion, creed or sexual orientation. A lot of people who are anti-gay may use the Bible as as justification, but even absent that, it’s not like they would be hugging the next gay person they saw.[/quote]
I think you are absolutely correct. I think that religion provides them with a rationale (God hates fags) and a way to justify their behavior. It’s not like these people are paragons of introspection. My point is that most arguments against gay marriage are couched in religious terms. I think the hipocrisy is self evident.
[quote]WMD wrote:
Kuz wrote:
WMD wrote:
Christian reasoning on this issue is perverse beyond description. Zap, this very thing here is why I delight in tearing down religious beliefs. If it weren’t for the religious beliefs of some people, gays would be treated with dignity, like they were on an equal footing with other Americans. I recognize that people have the right to believe as they wish. I don’t have to respect those beliefs if they are stupid and/or harmful to other human beings.
While I personally have no issue with someone being gay, I call BS on this to a certain degree. If you think that religion is the sole reason that gays are treated the way they are (and I would admit it is definitely part of it), I think you are giving way too much credit to all of the the bigots out there. People tend to fear and loathe that which is different from them, whether based on race, religion, creed or sexual orientation. A lot of people who are anti-gay may use the Bible as as justification, but even absent that, it’s not like they would be hugging the next gay person they saw.
I think you are absolutely correct. I think that religion provides them with a rationale (God hates fags) and a way to justify their behavior. It’s not like these people are paragons of introspection. My point is that most arguments against gay marriage are couched in religious terms. I think the hipocrisy is self evident.
Good point. [/quote]
Thank ya kindly! I think what is hard in all of this is that there are also people who are against gay marriage not because they loathe gay people, but because there are sections of the Bible that would clearly point to that being sin (if taken very literally). But, since I am one of those kooky non-literal Catholics, I have my doubts on that. I know, I know… the Catholic Church’s stance on gay marriage, but I am struggling with all of that. I personally think you are born gay, so if God made you that way… is it really a sin? Trying to wrap my head around it all, just like everyone else I guess.
Overall, I wanted to say that I am pretty impressed that (by and large) that this has been more of a discussion on religion that has not turned into either a total mock fest, a “God will smite thee down, heathen!” argument or “My religiong is better than yours” battle.
[quote]Kuz wrote:
Overall, I wanted to say that I am pretty impressed that (by and large) that this has been more of a discussion on religion that has not turned into either a total mock fest, a “God will smite thee down, heathen!” argument or “My religiong is better than yours” battle.[/quote]
Sigh… despite my best efforts…
But really, I agree. This thread is a step above the usual ranting. We even got WMD to say something nice.
First, I don’t give a damn if the church continued to pay his pension. They removed him from the passion of his life and they threatened him with torture, for being correct.
No about of “compassion” within that will make it correct.
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Second, I think priests should be married, because then they’d understand the issues that the rest of their flock have to deal with on a daily basis?
How can they empathize with the troubles and toils of the common man, woman or family if they don’t ever develop a wide enough experience to know what it like to walk in those shoes?
[quote]vroom wrote:
Second, I think priests should be married, because then they’d understand the issues that the rest of their flock have to deal with on a daily basis?
How can they empathize with the troubles and toils of the common man, woman or family if they don’t ever develop a wide enough experience to know what it like to walk in those shoes?[/quote]
Think about this, though vroom:
What happens when a marriage fails (as they do sometimes), and it’s a priest that’s getting divorced? Can’t happen, right? So he has to go on living a lie in a loveless relationship. I can see how, from a certain POV, it’s a mixed blessing for a priest who deals with marital problems to not be entangled in such a thing himself.
Think of what an enormous culture change it would be to allow marriage within the catholic priesthood. Everything from the views on divorce, the role of women in the church, etc. will have to change to accommodate it, if it’s going to work. In a way, they would just become another flavor of protestant if it ever happens.
I hear what you are saying, and it is exactly appropriate they deal with the situations that everyone else does. You are making my point for me…
They are the ones now telling couples that they should not be divorced. I suspect it would allow them to change the rules… the Catholic system allows change from time to time, it’s overdue.
[quote]WMD wrote:
Massif wrote:
MikeTheBear wrote:
However, I think the rule that no sex outside of marriage is a good rule. I have a daughter - amazing how things change once you have one. But once married, hinky and kinky is all good.
ROTFL!!!
I hear you on that one. I found my perspective changed dramatically after the birth of my daughter!!
And if it was your son?[/quote]
A fair question. I don’t like double standards, so yes, I would teach my son that sex outside of marriage was a bad idea. I suppose once’s perspective changes dramatically once you have a child regardless if it’s a son or daughter.
I hear what you are saying, and it is exactly appropriate they deal with the situations that everyone else does. You are making my point for me…
They are the ones now telling couples that they should not be divorced. I suspect it would allow them to change the rules… the Catholic system allows change from time to time, it’s overdue.[/quote]
They look the other way when money is involved.In 1958 my aunt who was previously married in the church and divorced wanted to get married in the church again to my uncle.The fee was $500 dollars to forget her first marriage and marry in the church again.It didnt last either.$$$$
[quote]ron33 wrote:
They look the other way when money is involved.In 1958 my aunt who was previously married in the church and divorced wanted to get married in the church again to my uncle.The fee was $500 dollars to forget her first marriage and marry in the church again.It didnt last either.$$$$
[/quote]
LOL Think of it as paying club dues. Hi, I’m lothario, and I’m trying to get in to the Catholic Club. Do we get T-shirts when we join? Oh… prayer beads? Oooo hoo hoo, you guys are kinky! I’ve seen videos with this stuff in it! Who’s the “Dungeon Mistress”? Do I get an executioner hood now, or do I have to be punished first?!!
