Is the church finally accepting that homosexuality is something inherent in individuals that you can’t change? I’m not really sure, but that would be pretty great.
So maybe this Benedict guy was just pretending to be conservative all those years so he could get a shot at being pope? In any case, amazing that they took the initiative to do this, assuming it’s true. I’m really starting to like this new pope.
Is the church finally accepting that homosexuality is something inherent in individuals that you can’t change? I’m not really sure, but that would be pretty great.
So maybe this Benedict guy was just pretending to be conservative all those years so he could get a shot at being pope? In any case, amazing that they took the initiative to do this, assuming it’s true. I’m really starting to like this new pope. [/quote]
Holy crap! Again! LOL
So let me get this straight… If a gay dude signs a paper saying he hasn’t engaged in Liberace-ness for three years, he can be accepted into the seminary?
Echo the liberal-in-conservative’s clothing idea here for sure. No strictly conservative pope would do something like this in a million years. Of course, back to my “survival tactic” mode, this could be an effort to bolster attendance and get new priests. They’ve been hurting as of late.
PS I’ve been away for six days, but thanks to all the posters (like my good buddy ZEB) who contributed. Yes, I am an avowed christian-basher, but golly… if you guys weren’t so silly about all of this, it wouldn’t be any fun. And really, isn’t “christian-bashing” a little bit of an exaggeration anyway? A tongue in cheek comment here and there is not quite the same as “bashing” is it? Thicken that skin, man!
Interesting, no offence to Catholics, but it is kind of funny to watch you get all indignant when it is suggested that there are problems or political issues within “The Church”.
Of course, it is more fun to watch fundamental literalists go apeshit all the time. For example, Zeb with respect to gay marriage. It was surely defeated, but the direction of the issue is towards, dare I use the word, liberalization and more so as you discuss the issue with younger crowds.
Anyway, for those of us that aren’t Catholic, don’t get upset when we discover things you’ve probably known your whole life. Unless you were born into a particular religion, most people don’t know anything about it… nor do they have any reason to.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Anyway, for those of us that aren’t Catholic, don’t get upset when we discover things you’ve probably known your whole life. Unless you were born into a particular religion, most people don’t know anything about it… nor do they have any reason to.[/quote]
Ditto this.
And really, let’s be honest here: the Catholic church has used certain passages in the bible as a tool to hate and condemn certain peoples for a long time. To see something like this “bible is not literal truth” come out is just really really encouraging. I was joking about having another inquisition, to be honest. When we have the Church singing to the tune of common sense, it becomes nearly impossible to have another inquisition. This is a tremendous step towards the center.
[quote]djbige05 wrote:
Read Leviticus chapter 19-20. This should sum things up pretty good. Yes, this is the old testement but the new testement tells of the true sacrafice, Jesus, and all you have to do is beleive that he died for your sin and rose again in a new life. To give you a new life and eternal life…
What ever you believe…are you willing to press your luck in this life? Also, knowing you do get a do over? All you are choosing is eternal life or eternal pain…you choose…is it worth it. Also, if all of this is just a story to give us purpose. Why is chirstianty the only religion so strongly believed or opposed? [/quote]
A) What about Leviticus 19-20? If I am not a Jew or a Christian, what does it have to do with me? Why are Christians so arrogant as to believe that only they know God and how to get to him/her/it?
B) The Bible is a collection of tribal histories, laws, customs, foundation narratives, poetry, coronation hymns and theological treatises. It has no coherent narrative. It has been shaped to serve theological purposes for the adherents of a few particular religions and their subsets. It is not the only religion so strongly believed or resisted. Do a Google search on Islam.
Religion is designed to give people some solid set of rules in a scary and uncertain world for appropriate behavior, how to live in that world, how to relate to whatever god or gods they believe in. That is, if you are a person who can’t figure it out for yourself with the brain the creator gave you.
I do not see the Bible as the defining text on relating to God. We were not put here to repeat the same things over and over again. I wish humanity would outgrow it’s primitive religious stage and move on to something else.
Actually, the law prevents them from marrying. This law is backed by about 75% of the populace who think that they should not marry.
Any more thoughts?
Wow, 75%, that’s an interesting number. My thoughts are that I can’t wait to laugh in your face when gay marriage becomes legally recognized in the majority of the US.
Yes, I’m sure you would love to laugh in my face. I mean isn’t that the goal of every good American? I mean, being able to laugh in someones face is…well…hey you made it if you can do that
I guess time will tell which way the Gay marriage issue will go. Right now it’s not going your way as evidenced by how badly Gay marriage was voted down in referendums across the country. It was not just beaten, but beaten badly!
Finally, this thread is not about Gay marriage. You brought this up (out of the blue) as a way to send a jab my way since you know my stand on the issue. It didn’t work! If you want to discuss Gay marriage start a thread about it and see who joins.
My very best to you. And may you have many happy hours of laughing in peoples faces, if that’s what you want in life.
Zeb
[/quote]
If it didn’t work (as a jab at you), why did you even bother to respond? Glad to see you remain as smarmy as ever, though.
[quote]WMD wrote:
I do not see the Bible as the defining text on relating to God. We were not put here to repeat the same things over and over again. I wish humanity would outgrow it’s primitive religious stage and move on to something else.
WMD[/quote]
I only wish God was a little more conspicuous in his dealings with us. I mean, that’s great that he gave us the bible for guidance and everything, but what kind of father shows up once every two thousand years?!
Hmm, a deadbeat dad? Perhaps mother earth can sue for child support?
Anyhow, just thought that was a pretty interesting way to view it. There is a parallel with respect to being a child without a father… and it doesn’t reflect well on God I’m afraid.
An absentee father is no father at all. In that case the child has to look elsewhere for guidance, role models and security.
[quote]randman wrote:
Again, you act like this is some kind of revealing news. Like the Catholic Church all of a sudden is doing this possibly as a desperate survival tactic. This has been the belief all along. All your seeing is a press release confirming the belief since the inception of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church has never viewed the bible as an infallible document/single source of truth. So it may be a completely new bit of informatino for you, but not to any believers. It goes to show how little you know of the Catholic faith. And please spare us your conjecture on the the Church’s motivations as some kind of desperate marketing ploy.[/quote]
In my opinion this is why most Christian’s do not respect the Papacy. Having the ability to pick and choose from scripture what is literal and what is not or determining your own interpretation is not conducive to consistent application. This is what most protestants have been “protesting” about the Papacy.
Funny how the Papacy states that scripture is not the ultimate authority, but then turns around and say the church is the ultimate authority. They decide what is right and wrong. Not the bible, not me and not you.
So the reality is that the Papacy has replaced the bible as the truth. So the bible is fallible, but the church is not? Nice! I guess this is a how they explain those Catholic doctrines that conflict with the bible; just say the bible is no longer the standard.
Lothario1132…
unfortunately you are perpetuating a myth and it shows the lack of education of many atheists when it comes to these matters.
I am not a catholic but a student od history and must come to their defense concerning Galileo.
Galileo insisted that the church immediately endorse his views, rather than allow for general acceptance and went as far as mocking the pope. Yes, he was censured, but the church kept giving him his pension for the rest of his life.
Copernicus also, history shows, was not persucuted and died of natural causes the same year his ideas were published.
I know it seems rather easy to bash the Catholic Church and I am certainly not a fan but stick to the facts.
Your haughty tone in your threads/messages coupled with your lack of understanding of historic facts make you look like a fool.
Too bad atheists and believers cannot seem to initiate a rational discussion. Atheists like you always seem to have to start with a snide remark. Dumb. Grow up.
Shouldn’t you be trying to deprive gay people of the right to get married or something? This is productive!
Deprive?!? They never had it in the first place, “CaptainLogic.”[/quote]
Um, it is possible to deprive people of things that they didn’t previously have you know, it’s not against the rules of ‘depriving’ if that’s what you’re trying to suggest.
Too bad atheists and believers cannot seem to initiate a rational discussion. Atheists like you always seem to have to start with a snide remark. Dumb. Grow up.[/quote]
It’s a pretty sweet tactic. Throw in the snide remark to rile them up a little, then when they’re responding like “this guy’s an idiot” boom! hit them with the rationalism when they least expect it!
Too bad atheists and believers cannot seem to initiate a rational discussion. Atheists like you always seem to have to start with a snide remark. Dumb. Grow up.
It’s a pretty sweet tactic. Throw in the snide remark to rile them up a little, then when they’re responding like “this guy’s an idiot” you hit them with the rationalism when they least expect it![/quote]
I consider myself a christian,but do not claim to be any certain dinomination.In the town where i grew up, my friends always went looking for the catholic school girls to date because they always seemed to be easy.We also found it kind of funny that they always wanted to blow you but not have intercourse,in their mind they thought BJs were fine but intercourse is a sin.My 70 yr. old mother in law went all through catholic schools ,and the things she tells me she was taught when she was young are really out there and a lot of contradictions.With the way the church is changing her & her friends sort of feel cheated compared to their teachings when they were young.From what she describes its a form of being Brain Washed.
