This one is called the 6T9 GTO Judge. It’s a concept, but it’s bad ass. This one is a 700 HP twin turbo V8. GM needs to find a way to bring these cars to market. I don’t see why they cannot build them under the GMC or Chevy labels.
Eh, fuck China. And I like the front. America needs the T\A.
I was behind a 2004 GTO last night at a drive through. Exhaust was modified.
It had a serious “You don’t want to fuck with me” sound.
Pontiac might still be alive today if the 2004 GTO looked something like that and they didn’t build the Aztek. If they had hit GTO sales goals and had a different SUV hit the sales goals projected for the Aztek, the would have been selling an additional 600k cars per year.
Found this article a while ago:
More importantly, Lutz also discussed the fate of GM upon his Second Coming, which began in 2001 and ended shortly after the 2008 bankruptcy. When GM applied for the federal bailout, the government’s men – the “Feds” – took a look at GM’s portfolio.
“The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet,” said Lutz. “They said, ‘you don’t need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand.’”
Buick was necessary because the Chinese loved Buick. GMC was necessary because it was a different customer from Chevrolet, and it made money. Hummer and Saab were already leaving the room. Chevrolet and Cadillac – that much was obvious, at least.
That left Pontiac. Now, Lutz had great ideas for Pontiac, starting with the G8 and the Solstice – both of which gave the impression that the company was on its way to making a resurgence. “It had been mismanaged for a number of years, you know, with ‘we build excitement,’ and the excitement was only in the plastic body cladding, mechanically there was nothing about Pontiac in the '90s that would make your heart beat faster.”
The bombshell had been that Pontiac was well on its way to moving to an entirely rear-drive platform. (Can you feel the air being sucked out of the room?) The next G6, said Lutz, was moving to a compact RWD architecture, shared with – that’s right – the Cadillac ATS.
Pontiac was on its way to becoming a niche performance brand, a cut-rate BMW while looking like BMW. Then, the government stepped in.
Said Lutz (at 2:14:39): “The Feds said ‘yeah, how much money have you made on Pontiac in the last 10 years?’ and the answer was ‘Nothing.’ So, it goes. And, when the guy who is handing you the check for $53 billion says ‘I don’t want Pontiac, drop Pontiac or you don’t get the money,’ it doesn’t take you very long to make up your mind.”
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131028/carnews/131029820#ixzz31L5twWq1
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Pontiac might still be alive today if the 2004 GTO looked something like that and they didn’t build the Aztek. If they had hit GTO sales goals and had a different SUV hit the sales goals projected for the Aztek, the would have been selling an additional 600k cars per year.
Found this article a while ago:
More importantly, Lutz also discussed the fate of GM upon his Second Coming, which began in 2001 and ended shortly after the 2008 bankruptcy. When GM applied for the federal bailout, the government’s men – the “Feds” – took a look at GM’s portfolio.
“The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet,” said Lutz. “They said, ‘you don’t need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand.’”
Buick was necessary because the Chinese loved Buick. GMC was necessary because it was a different customer from Chevrolet, and it made money. Hummer and Saab were already leaving the room. Chevrolet and Cadillac – that much was obvious, at least.
That left Pontiac. Now, Lutz had great ideas for Pontiac, starting with the G8 and the Solstice – both of which gave the impression that the company was on its way to making a resurgence. “It had been mismanaged for a number of years, you know, with ‘we build excitement,’ and the excitement was only in the plastic body cladding, mechanically there was nothing about Pontiac in the '90s that would make your heart beat faster.”
The bombshell had been that Pontiac was well on its way to moving to an entirely rear-drive platform. (Can you feel the air being sucked out of the room?) The next G6, said Lutz, was moving to a compact RWD architecture, shared with – that’s right – the Cadillac ATS.
Pontiac was on its way to becoming a niche performance brand, a cut-rate BMW while looking like BMW. Then, the government stepped in.
Said Lutz (at 2:14:39): “The Feds said ‘yeah, how much money have you made on Pontiac in the last 10 years?’ and the answer was ‘Nothing.’ So, it goes. And, when the guy who is handing you the check for $53 billion says ‘I don’t want Pontiac, drop Pontiac or you don’t get the money,’ it doesn’t take you very long to make up your mind.”
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131028/carnews/131029820#ixzz31L5twWq1
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook
[/quote]
So, basically…
Thanks, Obama!
haha
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Pontiac might still be alive today if the 2004 GTO looked something like that and they didn’t build the Aztek. If they had hit GTO sales goals and had a different SUV hit the sales goals projected for the Aztek, the would have been selling an additional 600k cars per year.
Found this article a while ago:
More importantly, Lutz also discussed the fate of GM upon his Second Coming, which began in 2001 and ended shortly after the 2008 bankruptcy. When GM applied for the federal bailout, the government’s men – the “Feds” – took a look at GM’s portfolio.
“The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet,” said Lutz. “They said, ‘you don’t need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand.’”
Buick was necessary because the Chinese loved Buick. GMC was necessary because it was a different customer from Chevrolet, and it made money. Hummer and Saab were already leaving the room. Chevrolet and Cadillac – that much was obvious, at least.
That left Pontiac. Now, Lutz had great ideas for Pontiac, starting with the G8 and the Solstice – both of which gave the impression that the company was on its way to making a resurgence. “It had been mismanaged for a number of years, you know, with ‘we build excitement,’ and the excitement was only in the plastic body cladding, mechanically there was nothing about Pontiac in the '90s that would make your heart beat faster.”
The bombshell had been that Pontiac was well on its way to moving to an entirely rear-drive platform. (Can you feel the air being sucked out of the room?) The next G6, said Lutz, was moving to a compact RWD architecture, shared with – that’s right – the Cadillac ATS.
Pontiac was on its way to becoming a niche performance brand, a cut-rate BMW while looking like BMW. Then, the government stepped in.
Said Lutz (at 2:14:39): “The Feds said ‘yeah, how much money have you made on Pontiac in the last 10 years?’ and the answer was ‘Nothing.’ So, it goes. And, when the guy who is handing you the check for $53 billion says ‘I don’t want Pontiac, drop Pontiac or you don’t get the money,’ it doesn’t take you very long to make up your mind.”
Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131028/carnews/131029820#ixzz31L5twWq1
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook
[/quote]
Oh the Aztec was awful no doubt. But I did like the Solstice and the GTO and the G8. I did think at the time they were rounding the corner with those cars. I think having a performance oriented niche brand wouldn’t be a bad idea. Of course, I am a car guy and I like cars, I have to accept the fact that most people don’t give a rats ass, proven by the success of the Camry. Anybody who buys a Camry couldn’t give a flying dick about cars. They just want to get from A to B in air conditioning.
But maybe, just maybe there are enough car guys out there to make a performance brand from GM survive.
Bring back Pontiac!
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Then there is a 3000 HP Mustang. That’ll get you on the interstate pretty good.
Steve Morris. If you want to talk about anything less than 1000 HP, he doesn’t have much to say.[/quote]
I came.[/quote]
Yes, you did. If you didn’t you wouldn’t be a man.
[quote]pat wrote:
Anybody who buys a Camry couldn’t give a flying dick about cars. They just want to get from A to B in air conditioning.[/quote]
I agree to some degree. But what about those guys with race cars in the garage who need a Camry because they pour all their money into their car? Or going to races? How many people drive “The Ultimate Driving Machine” and only go on the highway and drive it like any other car?
Pontiac didn’t offer anything to the public that was worth buying over anything else out there. In the end that’s what killed them. GM should have given them their own identity. But GM sucks so they didn’t.
james
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Anybody who buys a Camry couldn’t give a flying dick about cars. They just want to get from A to B in air conditioning.[/quote]
I agree to some degree. But what about those guys with race cars in the garage who need a Camry because they pour all their money into their car? Or going to races? How many people drive “The Ultimate Driving Machine” and only go on the highway and drive it like any other car?
Pontiac didn’t offer anything to the public that was worth buying over anything else out there. In the end that’s what killed them. GM should have given them their own identity. But GM sucks so they didn’t.
james
[/quote]
If they bought it for $500 as a beater, I give them a pass.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Anybody who buys a Camry couldn’t give a flying dick about cars. They just want to get from A to B in air conditioning.[/quote]
I agree to some degree. But what about those guys with race cars in the garage who need a Camry because they pour all their money into their car? Or going to races? How many people drive “The Ultimate Driving Machine” and only go on the highway and drive it like any other car?
Pontiac didn’t offer anything to the public that was worth buying over anything else out there. In the end that’s what killed them. GM should have given them their own identity. But GM sucks so they didn’t.
james
[/quote]
If they bought it for $500 as a beater, I give them a pass.[/quote]
Having done the “keep a car nice, and daily drive a beater” i have to disagree 100% on the logic.
Maybe ive grown old, but spending everyday in a piece of shit while a nice car wastes away makes no sense to me. Granted some can afford much nicer beaters than others, but for $500-1000 which is a typical “beater” price range it just doesnt make sense to me.
Have the money where you spend a majority of your time.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Anybody who buys a Camry couldn’t give a flying dick about cars. They just want to get from A to B in air conditioning.[/quote]
I agree to some degree. But what about those guys with race cars in the garage who need a Camry because they pour all their money into their car? Or going to races? How many people drive “The Ultimate Driving Machine” and only go on the highway and drive it like any other car?
Pontiac didn’t offer anything to the public that was worth buying over anything else out there. In the end that’s what killed them. GM should have given them their own identity. But GM sucks so they didn’t.
james
[/quote]
If they bought it for $500 as a beater, I give them a pass.[/quote]
Having done the “keep a car nice, and daily drive a beater” i have to disagree 100% on the logic.
Maybe ive grown old, but spending everyday in a piece of shit while a nice car wastes away makes no sense to me. Granted some can afford much nicer beaters than others, but for $500-1000 which is a typical “beater” price range it just doesnt make sense to me.
Have the money where you spend a majority of your time.
[/quote]
We both have grown old. I would like to have a beater truck that I don’t give a shit what happens to it. That way I have a choice and I can carry shit for nice car without damaging the car. But yeah, I don’t want to drive a piece of shit daily. But it would be nice to have a piece of shit I can use when I don’t want to take my car to like a ball game in the city, or when there’s a flash flood watch, or if I need pine straw. But why have a nice car if you don’t drive it. Drive the damn thing…
I’m at the point where i just want something i dont care about. Not a turd, but something i wont stress over. I think about getting some kind of domestic suv and the freedom of not giving a shit anymore because parts are cheap, and every corner gas station will be able to fix whatever i cant.
I just have to sell my current ride to be able to afford something i can live with, which im having a hard time letting go of.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
I’m at the point where i just want something i dont care about. Not a turd, but something i wont stress over. I think about getting some kind of domestic suv and the freedom of not giving a shit anymore because parts are cheap, and every corner gas station will be able to fix whatever i cant.
I just have to sell my current ride to be able to afford something i can live with, which im having a hard time letting go of. [/quote]
You think that now, but if you like cars you won’t be happy with it. Sure there are plenty of serviceable cars that do everything relatively well and are comfortable, but there’s nothing cool or special about them. It’s just a car, another tool. No joy from the experience of the ride itself, but’s its comfortable and reasonable.
I thought the same thing a while back, I hated that car. It was boring.
[quote]pat wrote:
You think that now, but if you like cars you won’t be happy with it. Sure there are plenty of serviceable cars that do everything relatively well and are comfortable, but there’s nothing cool or special about them. It’s just a car, another tool. No joy from the experience of the ride itself, but’s its comfortable and reasonable.
I thought the same thing a while back, I hated that car. It was boring.[/quote]
The dentist that my wife works with drives a pretty bare F150. It’s not exciting or fun and he doesn’t necessarily like it. But it’s a tool for him and he really needs it to tow his Alfa race car to the track which is his real passion. He doesn’t want a vehicle - besides his race car - that constantly needs work because that takes money away from him being able to race. Does it make him any less of a car guy just because he drives something boring?
james
I think times have changed and this probably wont be the case in the future. But, it would be awesome if my parents had purchased a Camaro in 1969 and never drove it. It would be worth a pretty penny today.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think times have changed and this probably wont be the case in the future. But, it would be awesome if my parents had purchased a Camaro in 1969 and never drove it. It would be worth a pretty penny today. [/quote]
That’s actually a great little thought experiment.
What cars, built today, will be eventual collectors items. I’m not talking about moth-balling the car and selling it as a novelty item 25 years from now (“It’s a 25 year old Toyota Corrola with only 8 miles on it!”), but what could you put 6,000 miles a year on and still make money 25 years from now?
I guess the easy answers are your ZR1s and Z06s. Maybe a Camaro ZL1…
Something like a Porsche 993 which is less than 20 years old and is already starting to rise in price.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I think times have changed and this probably wont be the case in the future. But, it would be awesome if my parents had purchased a Camaro in 1969 and never drove it. It would be worth a pretty penny today. [/quote]
That’s actually a great little thought experiment.
What cars, built today, will be eventual collectors items. I’m not talking about moth-balling the car and selling it as a novelty item 25 years from now (“It’s a 25 year old Toyota Corrola with only 8 miles on it!”), but what could you put 6,000 miles a year on and still make money 25 years from now?
I guess the easy answers are your ZR1s and Z06s. Maybe a Camaro ZL1…
Something like a Porsche 993 which is less than 20 years old and is already starting to rise in price.[/quote]
That’s why I was saying times have changed. I think really the only way almost any car made today is worth more money in the future is if something major happens. Like all cars going to a different fuel source or something major like most cars being destroyed because of war or disasters. There are just to many cars made today. One car that stands out as a shot for future value in my opinion would be a Tesla, or high performance electrical car. In the future it could be considered an “OG” in the new fuel market.