Cardio without Running?

Training
21

[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
In what way? As far as it being hard to recover from do you mean? I just found all my uncles old ropes and boxing stuff at my nanas, got me thinking about it.[/quote]
It takes a real toll on your ankles, knees and calve muscles.
If you have the right surface it can be excellent, but a bad surface can wreak havoc.
[/quote]

Especially important considering that shark wanted to avoid running because it left him with tight calves and aching knees.

22

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Especially important considering that shark wanted to avoid running because it left him with tight calves and aching knees.[/quote]
Absolutely.

A man once asked Eddie Futch “Is swimming good training for boxing?”
Eddie replied “Boxing is good training for boxing.”

Just like jits players spend hours rolling and drilling, strikers can develop more than sufficient condition shadowboxing and sparring. I think anything outside of that is a supplement to core training.

23

[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Especially important considering that shark wanted to avoid running because it left him with tight calves and aching knees.[/quote]
Absolutely.

A man once asked Eddie Futch “Is swimming good training for boxing?”
Eddie replied “Boxing is good training for boxing.”

Just like jits players spend hours rolling and drilling, strikers can develop more than sufficient condition shadowboxing and sparring. I think anything outside of that is a supplement to core training.[/quote]

Personally I would add hitting mitts/bags, and “drilling” with partners to that list, but yeah, I totally agree. That doesn’t mean that supplementary conditioning can’t be beneficial of course, but if you were to take someone and replicate them and then have the original spend 90% of their time working on striking/boxing specific conditioning/training and 10% on supplementary conditioning and the replica spend 90% of their time on supplementary conditioning and 10% on striking specific conditioning/ training the original would destroy the replica after a few years (probably even less time, but definitely after that much time).

What is strange is that most beginners seem to want to spend the majority of their time and energy on the supplemental stuff.

24

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

Nowhere near it.

It’s great for footwork and coordination, but I can literally jump rope all day… but running is way, way harder.

25

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

Nowhere near it.

It’s great for footwork and coordination, but I can literally jump rope all day… but running is way, way harder. [/quote]

Running on grass may actually be easier on you than jumping rope. I did laps around an athletic field when rehabbing my ankle. Just beware of poorly kept fields, stepping in a hole and turning an ankle obviously negates the soft surface advantage. If you have a sandy beach near you that can be great for running too.

26

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

Nowhere near it.

It’s great for footwork and coordination, but I can literally jump rope all day… but running is way, way harder. [/quote]

Running on grass may actually be easier on you than jumping rope. I did laps around an athletic field when rehabbing my ankle. Just beware of poorly kept fields, stepping in a hole and turning an ankle obviously negates the soft surface advantage. If you have a sandy beach near you that can be great for running too.[/quote]

OMFG sand is such a bitch to run in. Fuck that.

Great for ankles and feet but horrible for breathing…so much harder than regular running lol.

So, yeah, go do it haha

27

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

Nowhere near it.

It’s great for footwork and coordination, but I can literally jump rope all day… but running is way, way harder. [/quote]

Running on grass may actually be easier on you than jumping rope. I did laps around an athletic field when rehabbing my ankle. Just beware of poorly kept fields, stepping in a hole and turning an ankle obviously negates the soft surface advantage. If you have a sandy beach near you that can be great for running too.[/quote]

OMFG sand is such a bitch to run in. Fuck that.

Great for ankles and feet but horrible for breathing…so much harder than regular running lol.

So, yeah, go do it haha[/quote]

X2 on that sand shit! :slight_smile:

Funny Sideline on beach training: I was doing some training outside of Moorehead City NC, near a town called Emerald Isle. While getting ready for the day, I would often watch this guy shuffling down the beach, shadowboxing. He had tied about a two foot length of rope around both ankles, then “shuffle, or jog” down the edge of the water. Well, that looked really weird to me, so, I had to try it.

Warning: never use ski rope, it will cut the hell out of your
ankles:).

Anyway, that was some of the hardest crap i have ever tried to do, get too close to the water and your foot would sink lower than the other, and the fucking rope would throw you off balance, I must have looked like a drunk penguin. Needless to say, I sucked at that, but, damn, that really make you work on your footwork.:slight_smile:

28

Yeah, running on sand and swimming in surf are murder for guys who only train on a track and in a pool. For true murder alternate beach sprints with laps out around a bouy 200m from shore. Throw in leg lifts during your “rest.” Worst day of your life.

29

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

Nowhere near it.

It’s great for footwork and coordination, but I can literally jump rope all day… but running is way, way harder. [/quote]

Running on grass may actually be easier on you than jumping rope. I did laps around an athletic field when rehabbing my ankle. Just beware of poorly kept fields, stepping in a hole and turning an ankle obviously negates the soft surface advantage. If you have a sandy beach near you that can be great for running too.[/quote]

OMFG sand is such a bitch to run in. Fuck that.

Great for ankles and feet but horrible for breathing…so much harder than regular running lol.

So, yeah, go do it haha[/quote]

X2 on that sand shit! :slight_smile:

Funny Sideline on beach training: I was doing some training outside of Moorehead City NC, near a town called Emerald Isle. While getting ready for the day, I would often watch this guy shuffling down the beach, shadowboxing. He had tied about a two foot length of rope around both ankles, then “shuffle, or jog” down the edge of the water. Well, that looked really weird to me, so, I had to try it.

Warning: never use ski rope, it will cut the hell out of your
ankles:).

Anyway, that was some of the hardest crap i have ever tried to do, get too close to the water and your foot would sink lower than the other, and the fucking rope would throw you off balance, I must have looked like a drunk penguin. Needless to say, I sucked at that, but, damn, that really make you work on your footwork.:slight_smile: [/quote]

I just quoted this because your post made me really miss N.C. I was at Lejune and spent lots of time at Emerald Isle and the surrounding areas… good times.

I was also at 29 palms and did my share of running in the sand!!!

30

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Personally I would add hitting mitts/bags, and “drilling” with partners to that list, but yeah, I totally agree. That doesn’t mean that supplementary conditioning can’t be beneficial of course, but if you were to take someone and replicate them and then have the original spend 90% of their time working on striking/boxing specific conditioning/training and 10% on supplementary conditioning and the replica spend 90% of their time on supplementary conditioning and 10% on striking specific conditioning/ training the original would destroy the replica after a few years (probably even less time, but definitely after that much time).

What is strange is that most beginners seem to want to spend the majority of their time and energy on the supplemental stuff. [/quote]
Yeah absolutely agreed with all of that.

I often criticise boxing for being stuck in the past and too traditional, but in this situation I think in this situation unless you have the technical foundation, youre building on shaky ground.

As you alluded to I think working the mitts with a good coach can be one of the most beneficial exercises there is.

31

[quote]Ranzo wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]devildog_jim wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
Guys what are your thoughts on jump rope for cardio?is it anywhere near as effective as running?[/quote]

Nowhere near it.

It’s great for footwork and coordination, but I can literally jump rope all day… but running is way, way harder. [/quote]

Running on grass may actually be easier on you than jumping rope. I did laps around an athletic field when rehabbing my ankle. Just beware of poorly kept fields, stepping in a hole and turning an ankle obviously negates the soft surface advantage. If you have a sandy beach near you that can be great for running too.[/quote]

OMFG sand is such a bitch to run in. Fuck that.

Great for ankles and feet but horrible for breathing…so much harder than regular running lol.

So, yeah, go do it haha[/quote]

X2 on that sand shit! :slight_smile:

Funny Sideline on beach training: I was doing some training outside of Moorehead City NC, near a town called Emerald Isle. While getting ready for the day, I would often watch this guy shuffling down the beach, shadowboxing. He had tied about a two foot length of rope around both ankles, then “shuffle, or jog” down the edge of the water. Well, that looked really weird to me, so, I had to try it.

Warning: never use ski rope, it will cut the hell out of your
ankles:).

Anyway, that was some of the hardest crap i have ever tried to do, get too close to the water and your foot would sink lower than the other, and the fucking rope would throw you off balance, I must have looked like a drunk penguin. Needless to say, I sucked at that, but, damn, that really make you work on your footwork.:slight_smile: [/quote]

I just quoted this because your post made me really miss N.C. I was at Lejune and spent lots of time at Emerald Isle and the surrounding areas… good times.

I was also at 29 palms and did my share of running in the sand!!![/quote]

Heh, if you miss Lejeune you’ve clearly been out too long to remember it well. Maybe it’s the toxic water. :slight_smile:

32

[quote]donnydarkoirl wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Personally I would add hitting mitts/bags, and “drilling” with partners to that list, but yeah, I totally agree. That doesn’t mean that supplementary conditioning can’t be beneficial of course, but if you were to take someone and replicate them and then have the original spend 90% of their time working on striking/boxing specific conditioning/training and 10% on supplementary conditioning and the replica spend 90% of their time on supplementary conditioning and 10% on striking specific conditioning/ training the original would destroy the replica after a few years (probably even less time, but definitely after that much time).

What is strange is that most beginners seem to want to spend the majority of their time and energy on the supplemental stuff. [/quote]
Yeah absolutely agreed with all of that.

I often criticise boxing for being stuck in the past and too traditional, but in this situation I think in this situation unless you have the technical foundation, youre building on shaky ground.

As you alluded to I think working the mitts with a good coach can be one of the most beneficial exercises there is.
[/quote]

I tend to agree with you about a lot of boxing coaches being stuck in the past, but I also tend to think that a lot of strength and conditioning coaches outside of boxing (or weekend warrior types who do some boxing on the side) tend to go too far in the opposite direction. I also like your technical foundation/shaky ground metaphor; sums up the situation nicely.

33

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

What is strange is that most beginners seem to want to spend the majority of their time and energy on the supplemental stuff. [/quote]

this last sentence says it all.
Thank you Sento.

I know I know this is some sort of a
‘hardcore’ training site for getting stronger and bigger

but really its just flat out easier to get stronger or faster
then it is to get better at your sport.

I say that without rancor.

sand sucks balls to run in.
snow and ice are worse.

I went from one snow belt in central NY ( D3) to another in the frozen Mid west (D1)
and back to a different college in central NY (D1)
and ran more miles in the ice behind a plow then can be good for you.
the secret hex head screws - and being dumped out of the back of the van
ten miles away down the road.

this was ages ago- everyone ran.
and typically we did it - 5x or 7 x a week.

that being said you have to run.
not like that .
but you have to do it.
go to the track walk the corners sprint the straights.

dont have a track walk/run every other telephone pole.

your not ready for 'alternatives ’
just go for a run a few times a week- and bust your ass.
20 minutes is enough. OK 25 and youv’e run 3 miles or a 5 k.
and you can do it in the morning before work

after reading 3 or 4 of these mental masturbation posts- form the same OP
Im going to tell you to you that in the beginning - just bust your ass.
what ever program - training running or jogging on a trampoline
just bust your ass.

dont fetishsize the training.
I wish Id learned that like a million years ago.

34

For the record I started with burpess, then threw in small sprints, now I do 1 mile a day on the treadmill and try and beat my time each day. It is short enough to recover from and I think it probably helps more than a 5km because of the intense nature of an all out 1 mile max.

35

[quote]sharkOnesie wrote:
So having returned to BJJ about 3 stone heavier and seemingly just as weak as before I am dying on the mat from pure exhaustion, like seeing black spots projectile vomiting in the toilets exhausted.[/quote]

I have a simple solution for you. Roll more.

36

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
No.

Run.

Run less distance, but run. [/quote]

Hill sprints have increased my work capacity in a matter of weeks. But if all running is no option there are already a few good ideas in this thread:

  • Grappling (this alone is great cardio)
  • HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)
  • Circuits
  • etc.
37

If you run on grass, wear cross country spikes. Especially if you are sprinting.

38

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
but really its just flat out easier to get stronger or faster
then it is to get better at your sport.
[/quote]
This.

Grab a Kettlebell and throw it, then sprint to where it landed and throw it again.
Do High Rep Snatches, ca. 10-15 minutes 2x a week are sufficient (3x3 min, 5x2 min).
Incorporate loaded carries, no matter if you are carrying a partner, a sandbag or a barbell.

But whatever it is you do, as kmcnyc has pointed out, pick something and bust your ass without making your primary sport performance suffer.

39

I have problems with running as well,so I tried many different conditioning techniques until I realized what some have already posted.That using conditioning methods that simulate whatever activity you are engaged in works very well.I myself use heavy bag with timed rounds where the timing is split up with say 2 min. all out then 3min. at a steady but less intense state.Kind of like HIIT cardio but using techniques I use for Muay Thai.

That as well as sprints with varying intensities along with BJJ specific drills that were mentioned previously should somewhat simulate the stresses on your cardiovascular system where your sport is concerned.Just some options that have worked well for me for fitness and overall fat loss and conditioning.

40

Man I love how people complain about running. I have a torn ACL which I haven’t re-attached. A removed medial meniscus, a faciotomy on my Vastus lateralis 40 stiches long and not only do I still run, I sprint sometimes. I’m also way heavier than most of you so my joints and body has to cope with it all.

Fucking suck it up and run. Bloody hell.

Run on grass
Jog on grass
go barefoot
wear shoes that make you jump like Armstrong on the moon, who the fuck cares, do something that resembles running or a very fast walk if you want to fight. It’s the ugliest most annoying things you hate to do that will build you a fucking mental fortress. Might not even help your conditioning physically one iota, but guaranteed it will help you mentally if anything at all.