Cardio Contradictions...

An approach that has worked for me is to perform HIIT on an “almost empty stomach”

At bedtime, I generally throw back some casein + brewer’s yeast tablets, along with some CLA. I take approximately 6 tablets containing 1000mg each 80% CLA.

In the morning, I use a Soy Protein Isolate (and I know I’m gonna get shat on for this, but trust me, I have my reasons). It’s not 100% pure though, but having about 5% carbs. Most of this is fructose and maltodextrin, added by the company that makes the isolate to sell you 50g dirt-cheap sugar for the price of an isolate.

My little rant aside, I think that the fructose is metabolised in the liver, and helps with glycogen, and to put the brakes on catabolysis. The bedtime P+F meal with the CLA prevents fat storage while still preventing a full lasting state. The casein and brewer’s yeast (hard compressed tabs) take a while to digest, and maintain protein levels. So, on waking, I hope I’m not as catabolic as I could otherwise be.

It takes about an hour after waking before I actually get to the gym and start my program. By then, I’ve been running around the house, and driving there, so I guess that I’m gonna start relying on fat during the workout. I pop some ephedra + caffeine and some sodium bicarbonate before I leave home… and then I hit the HIIT.

Anyway, this works for me, though I’m not 100% sure if its optimal or correct. Any suggestions? Does this make sense?

A little protein before and after cardio is the way to go for maintaining LBM. Fat oxidation shouldn’t be supressed much at all if it’s done right.

Our lab is still cringing at the concept that lower intensity cardio promotes better overall fat loss, because we showed it burns fat directly (not that I was involved:). Nice spin on this L-Train!

Interesting info!

Obviously, as some of you have pointed out, a lot depends on the person and what they are trying to achieve, but…

The general consensus seems to be that moderate paced aerobic cardio works well in a fasted state, and eating a meal an hour later would be fine.

Things don’t seem so clear with HIIT. Some of you seem to of had great success with it, but many of you believe this to be too catabolic in the fasted state. So this is still quite a fuzzy area - even after reading the ‘Cardio Roundtable’ article there are no clear answers or evidence. It seems, to me at least, that HIIT can be effective but I’ve no idea how to implement it, specifically; Should HIIT be done in a fasted state? Should you eat directly after HIIT?

If anyone else would like to add what forms of cardio have/haven’t worked for them that would be great.

Cheers

Chris

planbeta, HIIT should NOT be done fasted state. It can still be done in the morning, but should follow your first meal of the day, say a protein shake. I try to schedule my HIIT so that I’m due for a meal upon completion.

What about combining HIIT with a short workout like the new riped rugged and dense plan?

Eg:
5x5 split (you can apply this to other rep ranges besides 5x5 as well):

Day 1 (Chest and Biceps)
A1) 30-degree incline DB Bench Press
A2) Incline Bicep Curls
+HIIT

Day 2 (Quad Dom Legs and Calves)
A1) Narrow Stance Squat
A2) Calve Press in a Leg Press Machine

Day 3 (Back and Triceps)
A1) Pullups
A2) Dips
+HIIT

Day 4 (Hip Dom Legs and Shoulders)
A1) Deadlift
A2) Standing DB Military Press

Day 5 OFF

Day 6 Repeat

Add a couple of FS morning cardio and your ready to go?

What do you guys think?

I have had Great results from doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, but i also sometimes will do it after a weight training workout.

i go from anywhere from 30 mins to and hour (depending on intensity) i also just kinda let my body do the talking, if i didnt get alot of sleep im proboly not going to be doing heavy running for a long period of time…

But i must say the best results ive gotten have been interval running for about 30-40 mins. then wait an hour after training to eat.
Good luck

Just wanted to chime in with cardio nutrition. Since high carbs post cardio isn’t always great for the guys trying to lose bodyfat… try BCAA/amino loading. I use the glutacene/nitromine stuff when I’m dieting, post cardio and even post weights and I like it…
If you are gaining and carbs are up I don’t know if it’s as good but while dieting it works great. I think gluta and nitro are now at infinity as muscle synthesis and 100% MR

Great thread.

Dan “Sit Back, Relax, and Learn somethin’” McVicker

Here is some info I recently posted on the steroid forum:

If you do enough 40 minute of cardio sessions after a one hour workout at least 5 times a week, you will be cut in no time. As far as the diet goes, protein intake is very important. The general rule I follow when leaning is this: Have a serving of protien at least every 2-3 hours while awake and one right before going to bed - (usually something that contains calcium cassinate which is a slower absorbed protein).

As far as workouts go, increasing the reps is not going burn fat, Keep your reps lower and continue doing whatever it is you were doing but keep in mind that it is good to change it up from time to time so your body doesn’t adapt.

Have a pure whey protein shake right before the gym. I do this to raise the amount of amino acids in my system to prevent becoming catabolic during cardio.
Always do weights first. You want burn as much of the sugar off in your body by pumping the iron so when you begin cardio, your body will be forced to look other places for energy.

Also if you did cardio first and weights second, you are more likely to run out of energy and become catabolic during your workout

I have learned that after a weight workout there is about 40 minutes to an hour of time to get food in before your muscles begin to break themselves down for energy

This is the perfect window to do your cardio in

It takes about 20 minutes of doing cardio at you target heart rate before you begin to actually burn body fat. Energy used before this is from fatty acids in your blood

This means if you do 40 minutes of cardio, only 20 minutes is spent burning actual bodyfat.

Make sure you stay within your target heart rate. If you go too fast you will begin to burn sugars, and catabolize muscle - plus you will be stimulating your muscles to remodel themselves to suit long distance running
If you go too slow you just won’t burn nearly as much calories.

Your target heart rate can be calculated using the tables on most cardio equipment, or do a google search as there are many calculators on the net.

I have found personally a good range to stay in is between 120-130 bpm.

Immediately after you are finished your cardio have a protien/carbohydrate shake. You need to replace the muscle glyclogen you have depleated as well as give your body some protein to repair itself with. This energy will not be stored as fat but will be instead sucked up by your muscles.

You will be in a heightened metabolic state for several hours following your workout and if you don’t pig out on carbs will continue to burn body fat.

The rest of your meals for the day from suppertime on should be low carb- high protien -high vegetable - high in dietary fats.

The best and worst cardio equipment to use for fat burning:

The goal here is not to kill yourself, you want to maintain a nice even pace, throughout. You should be able to still hold a conversation. If you find you are out of breath and can’t, this is your cue to slow down a little. It isn’t important if you break a sweat or not, what is important is that you are able to finish the entire 40 minutes of cardio without having to stop before hand because of lack of endurance, or muscle cramps or whatever other reason.

Worst:

The bike

it just does not burn enough calories for the amount of time you use it, and if you increase the tension, you will fatigue your muscles long before you finish your 40 minute cardio sesion.

Stair Climber

Same as the bike it’s really hard on the legs but burns way more sugars then fat because it forces you to use explosive energy - and your fast twitch muscles aren’t well equiped to burn oxygen and fat. So for the amount of work you put in to it the amount of fat you burn is not worth the time spent.

The rowing machine

This is supprisingly pretty good and not very catabolic for your muscles, and you get a great ab workout. I have used this in combination with the different cardio machines when I am board of just doing one. I personally
would not do this for the entire 40 minutes though.

The tread mill

Its O.k to walk quickly on this with the machine set at an angle, but never run because running is extremely hard on your joints and very catabolic to your muscle mass.

The Best:

The elyptical trainer - EFX machine.

These are hands down the absolute best machines for burning fat. There is almost absolutely no strain on your joints, it is a very smooth machine, and for the amount of time you are on the machine you burn the most amount of calories then any other cardio machine period. It is also the least catabolic.

Excellent, informative info, thanks for posting.

This IS a good thread

Kieren, looks good to me.