Gl;itch.e and others,
I’m thinking of getting into this (yeah, a bit late to the party) but have done AD before.
Firstly, how do the two compare? (Main goal fat loss)
Secondly, is this essentially fasting in the AM - low/no carb until workout then carb up? I don’t want to spend loads on the programme only to find there’s nothing more to it than that.
FML for reading this thread during contest prep, haha. This is interesting stuff though, I must say.
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
[quote]ugaMMA411 wrote:
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
[quote]ugaMMA411 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
how does an endormorpic former fat boy eat 4000 calories and 400g of carbs and wakeup bigger and leaner than a week ago on a keto diet.
this my friends is a riddle that will never be solved…
kiefer you mad scientist you…youre a genius.[/quote]
It’s crazy how one’s body can adapt through time. I used to weigh in the 190-200 lb range in high school and early college. Now I compete at 135 lbs and follow a very similar protocol to CBL (250-500 g per day depending on the activity level). I don’t care how many skeptics there are out there, I’ve tried several diets in the past 5 years and the concepts of CBL work great for me. [/quote]
Can you give a diet/training summary of what you do? I’m curious how much you train and when you CBL since you train to fight.[/quote]
I’ll PM you. Don’t wanna hijack this thread. BTW, thank you Siouxfan, your thread is one of the many that help me get ideas for tweaking my diet[/quote]
Did you PM me because I haven’t received anything and it’s been a couple days.[/quote]
I’ve tried sending you several messages but for some reason it won’t work after i click submit…i guess i can just write a quick thread about how i used CBL and IF to cut weight when getting ready for a fight (I walk around 152 lbs and cut to 135 lbs - yes i’m a midget). Please let me know if that would interest you.
Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
looks good. how long have you been backloading for?[/quote]
About 6 months on the full protocol, but a few months before that messing around with some of Martin Berkhan’s and Kiefer’s ideas combined. Kiefer won! IF worked as written for a couple of months but then I started losing strength. Started following Carb Backloading more to the letter and started regaining strength. [/quote]
wow, 6 months! can you share some of the things you noticed initially and long term?[/quote]
Lets see? Ill try breaking it down by category.
Fat Loss: This was quite rapid at first but has slowed down. I havent lowered calories though and in fact have actually added more over my starting levels. Still tightening up in some areas slowly. Seems like Legs are losing fat mostly at this stage. Still not quite got the full 6 pack, Top 4 showing. Thinking about using less Backloads shortly to finish up and go back into gaining.
Strength: Lost a little when doing Leangains, has come back up to pre weightloss levels, Not quite at my strongest ever, but not far off. Considering Im probably down about 20kgs on my heaviest/strongest this is quite amazing.
Muscle: Im never flat anymore! Shape and fullness has returned from when doing Leangains. Havent really added any significant muscle yet but cant wait for gaining mode! Expect good things. Always able to achieve pumps, This I put down to NO preworkout carbs. I noticed this with Leangains actually. Even though I am fasting in the morning and not eating any pre workout carbs I get pumps really easily, Sometimes quite painfully too! Quads can be a problem.
Adherence: Well after giving up breakfast 2 years ago I will never be a habitual breakfast eater again! The rest of the protocol is so easy to stick to and I never feel deprived, I could, and plan to stick with this for a long time. Eating is fun again and I feel my goals are even more reachable than before.[/quote]
hah that awesome. im pretty excited about the fat loss and muscle fullness you mention. its like were on some sort of hybrid nutrient partition supplement, but its free! i agree with you, breakfast sucks.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
ALso just want to say i hope people keep posting in here with there backloads/thoughts/resutls/experimentation.
WHat time are you guys starting backloads and how long do they go? DO you notice a differnece changing the length of it but keeping the macros the same?[/quote]
i start backloading at 5:30pm. shortly after post workout. pop tart and whey shake. then dinner at 6pm. a second meal at 8:30pm. if i leave out the 8:30pm i notice im alot flatter the next day, mostly because i could never eat the required amount of carbs in that one 6pm meal.
now backloading right until like 10-11pm i havent tried yet.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
WBB, do you notice any energy boost from 1g carnitine or is it just to free up fatty acids?
[/quote]
to be honest i dont notice anything at all from it. i bought it because a guy at my gym said it cut him up like no supplement hes ever tried before, it was like $15 so i figured id give it a shot. been using it for 6 weeks, i just use it now to get rid of the bottle lol.[/quote]
Hah, I’ve heard one reliable review where 10g pre workout was said to put energy “through the roof” but I bought some today so I think I’ll start low and taper up.[/quote]
LOL 10g of carnitine is going to give you the shits from hell.
[quote]alin wrote:
Gl;itch.e and others,
I’m thinking of getting into this (yeah, a bit late to the party) but have done AD before.
Firstly, how do the two compare? (Main goal fat loss)
Secondly, is this essentially fasting in the AM - low/no carb until workout then carb up? I don’t want to spend loads on the programme only to find there’s nothing more to it than that.[/quote]
backloading is all the benefits of the AD with none of the negatives. bacon and eggs for lunch, check. steak, check. carb up every night, double check. bad workouts, never.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
FML for reading this thread during contest prep, haha. This is interesting stuff though, I must say.[/quote]
id so be interested if you tried this post contest lol. first pro BBer to use carb backloading as his off season diet.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
FML for reading this thread during contest prep, haha. This is interesting stuff though, I must say.[/quote]
Way
I was hoping you’d eventually read this stuff. It would be interesting to see you start CBL after your show. The effect could be dramatic considering you’d be adding in all those carbs again, and at the perfect tine of day.
so last nights backload was quite small. id be surprised if i hit 200g of carbs. i had an intense but low volume workout so figured i didnt need as many carbs. bad move. flat as hell today and really, really tired.
anybody experience this when backloading not enough carbs?
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
so last nights backload was quite small. id be surprised if i hit 200g of carbs. i had an intense but low volume workout so figured i didnt need as many carbs. bad move. flat as hell today and really, really tired.
anybody experience this when backloading not enough carbs?[/quote]
Yeah, this may be one of the few negatives of the program. You basically have to be willing to eat a LOT of carbs every night. You can’t really slack, even for fat loss, or else you just don’t get the effects. If I don’t at least hit 500g on training days, I wake up flat as hell. That’s why I prefer to go even a bit dirtier then some with the food choices, just so I don’t get bored with them.
I don’t know how that makes sense, how eating more makes me leaner, and I’ve heard from critics that Keifer’s science isn’t all too ‘sound’. But honestly, all i care about is that it works. lol
Has anyone else noticed super deep sleep when backloading? I finally picked up the book and so I’ve dialed in the macros a lot better than I had on previous attempts (where I fell flat, felt shitty after a week, etc). I noticed the hot feeling the first few nights, but now I sleep so damn hard. I wake up before the alarm, and feel/look awesome every morning.
For the record, I’m working on the density track so I’m backloading more days than not trying to max out my weight class for strongman. Workouts are great, and I can tell the fat is coming off, even with how dirty I’m eating at night.
Sound science or not, shit works. And its fun.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
FML for reading this thread during contest prep, haha. This is interesting stuff though, I must say.[/quote]
As others have stated woudl be interested to see what you think if you attempt this. Do you have the book?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
FML for reading this thread during contest prep, haha. This is interesting stuff though, I must say.[/quote]
Way
I was hoping you’d eventually read this stuff. It would be interesting to see you start CBL after your show. The effect could be dramatic considering you’d be adding in all those carbs again, and at the perfect tine of day.[/quote]
I’ll have to read up on it some more, it looks promising. I just want to make sure I stay as lean as possible after the contest so I don’t want to do anything too crazy. I’ll check back in on this stuff closer to contest day. I can’t read all this icecream, lucky charms etc etc food logs without drooling lol
[quote]wiggles wrote:
Sound science or not, shit works. And its fun.[/quote]
Well said right there
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
WBB, do you notice any energy boost from 1g carnitine or is it just to free up fatty acids?
[/quote]
to be honest i dont notice anything at all from it. i bought it because a guy at my gym said it cut him up like no supplement hes ever tried before, it was like $15 so i figured id give it a shot. been using it for 6 weeks, i just use it now to get rid of the bottle lol.[/quote]
Hah, I’ve heard one reliable review where 10g pre workout was said to put energy “through the roof” but I bought some today so I think I’ll start low and taper up.[/quote]
LOL 10g of carnitine is going to give you the shits from hell.[/quote]
I don’t know if this is out of your guys’ comfort zone, but if you’re going to use L-carnitine it really needs to be injected IM, and even then it needs to be paired with 1-2 IU’s of insulin to be optimally utilized. So unless you’re planning on doing those two things, I wouldn’t waste your time/money on oral carnitine.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
WBB, do you notice any energy boost from 1g carnitine or is it just to free up fatty acids?
[/quote]
to be honest i dont notice anything at all from it. i bought it because a guy at my gym said it cut him up like no supplement hes ever tried before, it was like $15 so i figured id give it a shot. been using it for 6 weeks, i just use it now to get rid of the bottle lol.[/quote]
Hah, I’ve heard one reliable review where 10g pre workout was said to put energy “through the roof” but I bought some today so I think I’ll start low and taper up.[/quote]
LOL 10g of carnitine is going to give you the shits from hell.[/quote]
I don’t know if this is out of your guys’ comfort zone, but if you’re going to use L-carnitine it really needs to be injected IM, and even then it needs to be paired with 1-2 IU’s of insulin to be optimally utilized. So unless you’re planning on doing those two things, I wouldn’t waste your time/money on oral carnitine. [/quote]
Agreed with this. Oral is pretty much use less. It cannot get into the cells to be utilized
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
so last nights backload was quite small. id be surprised if i hit 200g of carbs. i had an intense but low volume workout so figured i didnt need as many carbs. bad move. flat as hell today and really, really tired.
anybody experience this when backloading not enough carbs?[/quote]
Yeah, this may be one of the few negatives of the program. You basically have to be willing to eat a LOT of carbs every night. You can’t really slack, even for fat loss, or else you just don’t get the effects. If I don’t at least hit 500g on training days, I wake up flat as hell. That’s why I prefer to go even a bit dirtier then some with the food choices, just so I don’t get bored with them.
I don’t know how that makes sense, how eating more makes me leaner, and I’ve heard from critics that Keifer’s science isn’t all too ‘sound’. But honestly, all i care about is that it works. lol[/quote]
everything you just said makes sense lol. i dont know why or how eating so many carbs is needed to get lean, but its working.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
WBB, do you notice any energy boost from 1g carnitine or is it just to free up fatty acids?
[/quote]
to be honest i dont notice anything at all from it. i bought it because a guy at my gym said it cut him up like no supplement hes ever tried before, it was like $15 so i figured id give it a shot. been using it for 6 weeks, i just use it now to get rid of the bottle lol.[/quote]
Hah, I’ve heard one reliable review where 10g pre workout was said to put energy “through the roof” but I bought some today so I think I’ll start low and taper up.[/quote]
LOL 10g of carnitine is going to give you the shits from hell.[/quote]
I don’t know if this is out of your guys’ comfort zone, but if you’re going to use L-carnitine it really needs to be injected IM, and even then it needs to be paired with 1-2 IU’s of insulin to be optimally utilized. So unless you’re planning on doing those two things, I wouldn’t waste your time/money on oral carnitine. [/quote]
i close my eyes, hold my breathe and pray to god when i have to give blood for tests. i doubt ill be able to stab myself purposely just to inject carnitine LOL.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
WBB, do you notice any energy boost from 1g carnitine or is it just to free up fatty acids?
[/quote]
to be honest i dont notice anything at all from it. i bought it because a guy at my gym said it cut him up like no supplement hes ever tried before, it was like $15 so i figured id give it a shot. been using it for 6 weeks, i just use it now to get rid of the bottle lol.[/quote]
Hah, I’ve heard one reliable review where 10g pre workout was said to put energy “through the roof” but I bought some today so I think I’ll start low and taper up.[/quote]
LOL 10g of carnitine is going to give you the shits from hell.[/quote]
I don’t know if this is out of your guys’ comfort zone, but if you’re going to use L-carnitine it really needs to be injected IM, and even then it needs to be paired with 1-2 IU’s of insulin to be optimally utilized. So unless you’re planning on doing those two things, I wouldn’t waste your time/money on oral carnitine. [/quote]
i close my eyes, hold my breathe and pray to god when i have to give blood for tests. i doubt ill be able to stab myself purposely just to inject carnitine LOL.[/quote]
hahaha, fair enough.