Carb Back Loading 2.0

frauls5015 · November 5, 2014, 4:58pm

Just a heads up…

Kiefer has come out with new recommendations on post workout nutrition. His latest research (which he seems to be very adamant about) shows that waiting an hour post-workout for ANY insulin spike is beneficial. From what I’ve read, it has to do with reactions to oxidative stress such as autophagy and creation of ROS during the one-hour postworkout period leading to greater hypertrophic responses. I’d recommend looking at his new stuff through his websites, especially after I gave the recommendation for carb-powder intraworkout (sorry!).

HeavyTriple · November 5, 2014, 6:04pm

[quote]frauls5015 wrote:
Just a heads up…

Kiefer has come out with new recommendations on post workout nutrition. His latest research (which he seems to be very adamant about) shows that waiting an hour post-workout for ANY insulin spike is beneficial. From what I’ve read, it has to do with reactions to oxidative stress such as autophagy and creation of ROS during the one-hour postworkout period leading to greater hypertrophic responses. I’d recommend looking at his new stuff through his websites, especially after I gave the recommendation for carb-powder intraworkout (sorry!). [/quote]
It’s very misleading to call what he does “research.” He looks at existing research just like you or I could, then gives his interpretation. He doesn’t conduct original research and isn’t some guru just because he has a background in physics.

system · November 5, 2014, 8:22pm

No offense, but it’s obviously research when you read and analyze research studies.

Not sure where Frauls referred to him as a guru or pumped up Kiefer’s physics background. At the same time, it does in some ways legitimize his ability to synthesize complex scientific information. Is it foolproof? No, obviously Kiefer is selling a solution. But does it suggest a greater ability to understand and make reasoned conclusions? You bet.

Love the random hate though.

mccyjcb · November 6, 2014, 1:32am

It’s a pretty good solution I might add. To be able to eat some of the things guys eat on CBL and not gain much fat is impressive. But I kind of have to consume carbs intra workout or else I wouldn’t have enough time before I go to bed to eat 400g carbs.

anon23385723 · November 6, 2014, 2:33am

[quote]sd_law wrote:
No offense, but it’s obviously research when you read and analyze research studies.

Not sure where Frauls referred to him as a guru or pumped up Kiefer’s physics background. At the same time, it does in some ways legitimize his ability to synthesize complex scientific information. Is it foolproof? No, obviously Kiefer is selling a solution. But does it suggest a greater ability to understand and make reasoned conclusions? You bet.

Love the random hate though.[/quote]

HT is just being truthful. I doesn’t ‘hate’ CBL, he himself does something similar. I’m probably the longest and biggest advocate of CBL on this forum, and HT has no issue with how I eat.

What he DOES hate, which I tend to agree with, is that Kiefer has been shown to take some creative liberties with his interpretations on studies, made some very outlandish claims, and honestly just is wrong on a lot. CBL works, I’ll always believe that, but Kiefer himself is a bit of a charlatan trying to act like his expertise in one field makes his claims superior to others’ whose field of study is actually nutrition/fitness.

HeavyTriple · November 6, 2014, 11:58pm

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]sd_law wrote:
No offense, but it’s obviously research when you read and analyze research studies.

Not sure where Frauls referred to him as a guru or pumped up Kiefer’s physics background. At the same time, it does in some ways legitimize his ability to synthesize complex scientific information. Is it foolproof? No, obviously Kiefer is selling a solution. But does it suggest a greater ability to understand and make reasoned conclusions? You bet.

Love the random hate though.[/quote]

HT is just being truthful. I doesn’t ‘hate’ CBL, he himself does something similar. I’m probably the longest and biggest advocate of CBL on this forum, and HT has no issue with how I eat.

What he DOES hate, which I tend to agree with, is that Kiefer has been shown to take some creative liberties with his interpretations on studies, made some very outlandish claims, and honestly just is wrong on a lot. CBL works, I’ll always believe that, but Kiefer himself is a bit of a charlatan trying to act like his expertise in one field makes his claims superior to others’ whose field of study is actually nutrition/fitness.

[/quote]
<3

Like the man said, it’s good in context. But where are all the success stories who got to legitimate levels of leanness with CBL? The target demographic has been overly fat people who have marginal success losing weight with it because they were eating terribly before.

It’s glorified carb cycling.

And give me a break, guy. I can read and analyze research…I went to grad school and had plenty of experience doing just that. Being a physicist doesn’t make him better at that.

frauls5015 · November 10, 2014, 3:58pm

“It’s very misleading to call what he does “research.” He looks at existing research just like you or I could, then gives his interpretation. He doesn’t conduct original research and isn’t some guru just because he has a background in physics.”

As a post-grad with plenty of experience, you should know better than many others the importance of secondary research and literature review. And as stated, not once did I mention physics or the word “guru” at all. I posted assuming that the readers of the forum were familiar with Kiefer and his principles. He has stated in the past that he wants his readers to be skeptical as this is conductive to legitimate science.

frauls5015 · November 10, 2014, 4:10pm

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]sd_law wrote:
No offense, but it’s obviously research when you read and analyze research studies.

Not sure where Frauls referred to him as a guru or pumped up Kiefer’s physics background. At the same time, it does in some ways legitimize his ability to synthesize complex scientific information. Is it foolproof? No, obviously Kiefer is selling a solution. But does it suggest a greater ability to understand and make reasoned conclusions? You bet.

Love the random hate though.[/quote]

HT is just being truthful. I doesn’t ‘hate’ CBL, he himself does something similar. I’m probably the longest and biggest advocate of CBL on this forum, and HT has no issue with how I eat.

What he DOES hate, which I tend to agree with, is that Kiefer has been shown to take some creative liberties with his interpretations on studies, made some very outlandish claims, and honestly just is wrong on a lot. CBL works, I’ll always believe that, but Kiefer himself is a bit of a charlatan trying to act like his expertise in one field makes his claims superior to others’ whose field of study is actually nutrition/fitness.

[/quote]

Charlatan? His plans are superior in that they are based largely on scientific, tested data versus many mainstream (at least for health and fitness) ‘diets,’ most of which have no rooting except in outdated science and opinion. He only mentions his physics background because of the heavy objectivity involved in this field.

mccyjcb · November 21, 2014, 2:37am

I eat about 130g protein and 120g fat over 4 meals before my workout at 7:30. But I feel too hungry during my workouts. What should I do? I’m attempting to bulk as well. And how much fat would you recommend i eat with 4 large eggs? They are the cheapest protein source and I love them

JR249 · November 22, 2014, 2:53pm

I’ve been doing this for a week and I am now a convert. I’m getting leaner and more pumps at the gym than previously, and I had been doing much more low carb.

Here’s my format:
Maintenance - 2406 cal, so low days are -500 cal (1906), medium days are at maintenance, and my high day is +500 cal (2906) —> goal is a slow recomp.

MON/WED, Medium - maintenance calories (200/200/90 - PCF); Tu/Thur/Sat/Sun, low - 500 defecit (200/100/78 - PCF), Fri, high +500 cal (200/300/101 - PCF). I do some carbs at breakfast, and the rest in a post-workout meal within an hour or so finishing at the gym. I work out at 3 PM, so lunch protein, fat and veggies only. If I have extra calories before bed, it’s protein, fat and perhaps a few veggies such as raw carrot sticks or celery.

I am sleeping better than I ever have and I’m not getting the mental fog and other negative side effects of the much lower carb diets. My lifts have been doing fine this week too, and clothes are already fitting a little better.

I’m doing 5/3/1 and going to transition to the BBB template after Thanksgiving. As such, I always follow Wendler’s advice and take a brisk 2-3 mile walk at least 4x/week, preferably more, and I have been consistently doing this for several months anyhow.

frauls5015 · November 22, 2014, 7:57pm

[quote]mccyjcb wrote:
I eat about 130g protein and 120g fat over 4 meals before my workout at 7:30. But I feel too hungry during my workouts. What should I do? I’m attempting to bulk as well. And how much fat would you recommend i eat with 4 large eggs? They are the cheapest protein source and I love them [/quote]

If you’re too hungry, I’d go the simple route and just eat more fat&protein. Bump up those numbers to say 160g and 150g and assess how it makes you feel. The diets are made for you to try, assess, modify, and try again to fit your body.

Personally, I drink lots of coffee which helps curb hunger. I know this is not an option for everyone but you could try a cup in the morning or afternoon or even decaf or different types of tea to help with hunger control.

As for 4 large eggs…I like to add two or three slices of american cheese and a tablespoon (and i mean silverware tablespoon, I very rarely measure it out with a measuring spoon) of coconut oil and this works well for me.

mccyjcb · December 3, 2014, 4:52pm

Does anyone actually follow that post workout shake protein amount? It would be like 120g protein. It seems impossible to only eat 80g protein the rest of the day. My post workout shake usually only has 45g protein in it, I just make sure to get roughly 5g leucine to maximize MPS.

frauls5015 · December 4, 2014, 12:50am

[quote]mccyjcb wrote:
Does anyone actually follow that post workout shake protein amount? It would be like 120g protein. It seems impossible to only eat 80g protein the rest of the day. My post workout shake usually only has 45g protein in it, I just make sure to get roughly 5g leucine to maximize MPS. [/quote]

I personally don’t. I take one scoop of whey with Kiefer’s new product (basically leucine and other ingredients to maximize insulin response and predigest some of the whey iso into hydrolysates). Hard to imagine downing a 120g protein shake. Leucine is a great additive to your shake, though.

I do try to eat lots of whole protein before bed, and depending on how much protein I ate for the first part of the day, may add a second scoop of whey to my post workout shake. Works for me!

mccyjcb · December 4, 2014, 7:45pm

Ok thanks. Yeah I just can’t understand taking in 120g protein and not taking in much protein the other parts of the day. Yeah I was thinking about getting CarbShock, do you think it’s worth it? It’s pretty spendy.

I am definitely going to purchase Carb Back Loading 2.0 though seeing as how he has changed a lot of his views.

system · January 5, 2015, 6:00pm

Been awhile since I last posted. I have slowly been evolving my CBL approach. I’ve backloaded with junk; I’ve backloaded clean. I’ve backloaded paleo; I’ve backloaded with pancakes.

What I’ve learned is this: total macros and calories was the only thing that really mattered (outside of my gym intensity). That said, I don’t “track” to the gram. I just keep my backloads fairly low fat and “clean”. This helps me control my calorie intake and, therefore, my body composition.

I got as heavy as 190 and was unimpressed with my appearance. I am now back down to 182 (shocked at how fast it happened) and look and feel way better.

What I love most about this diet is the consistent progress I make in the gym. Not entirely sure it’s fair for me to say this is due to the diet (really, who knows?) but I have never made as much progress before this diet. And I have been lifting for a long while.

Anyone else have any words of wisdom?

wierenga · January 16, 2015, 10:13am

hello everyone…

my first post here, and i’d like to take a moment to thank everyone on this forum for great help and information. i’ve been a long time lurker(?) haha

Anyway, i just finished reading the CBL 1.0 book for the third time. still with all the information floating around the net. adjustments that kiefer made apparently. i find it hard to really find a way to start. or fully understand.
maybe also because english is not my native language so please bare with me.

i have been dieting for a while. Currents stats are 95 KG 12% that about 211 LB; 185 LBM. everage Kcal currently 2500 a day. -500 maintainance

im doing UD 2.0 atm and like it. looking to do it till i hit around 10 %

After that i’d like to use CBL to maybe loose more fat (recomp) without dropping kcal further. and in the future gain mass with less fat

could someone point me in the right direction related to macro’s and Kcal? i know its not really the point with CBL but i’d like a clear place to start from where to adjust.

i read .75 g carb p/lbm to start with. around 140 grams for me
1-1.2 g protein p/lbm around 200
and .5 fat 100

-wich will put me at 2260 kcal on training days wich is too low
to maybe start at the 2500 i am now do i fill the rest with fat or carbs?

How do i handle the off days.
200 g protein fill the rest with fat?

I presume i’ll keep increasing the carb load till i hit that sweet spot and kcal on training days will go up to 3k or higher.

I hav emost off the supps he talks about at hand so, i’ll make the shakes etc like he suggest in the book. fill the rest with solid foor. high GI carbs till max 4 hours after training. Also the PWO shake 1 hour after training i understand now? still with 50g carbs with 90 g protein blend

Thanks alot in advance for anyone pointing out any misunderstanding on my part.

enjoy everyone

matt_t2004 · January 19, 2015, 11:29am

So I lift in the mornings around 6 am. I have a whey, leucine, and creating shake before and after then very low carb until around 5 pm. Then have my carb load at night. Is this a good strategy for lifting in the am?

frauls5015 · January 19, 2015, 9:17pm

[quote]sd_law wrote:
Been awhile since I last posted. I have slowly been evolving my CBL approach. I’ve backloaded with junk; I’ve backloaded clean. I’ve backloaded paleo; I’ve backloaded with pancakes.

What I’ve learned is this: total macros and calories was the only thing that really mattered (outside of my gym intensity). That said, I don’t “track” to the gram. I just keep my backloads fairly low fat and “clean”. This helps me control my calorie intake and, therefore, my body composition.

I got as heavy as 190 and was unimpressed with my appearance. I am now back down to 182 (shocked at how fast it happened) and look and feel way better.

What I love most about this diet is the consistent progress I make in the gym. Not entirely sure it’s fair for me to say this is due to the diet (really, who knows?) but I have never made as much progress before this diet. And I have been lifting for a long while.

Anyone else have any words of wisdom?[/quote]

At first, I paid little attention to macros and kind of ate for convenience. I found that the last month or so, trying to lean out a bit, I began “estimating” but not counting. Much better results, both in regards to body comp and even strength/hypertrophy gains (I also upped my protein intake, especially post workout, to more closely resemble the macros listed in the book).

I found that keeping carbs to one or two meals, but limiting to cleaner/lower fat (but still simple) carbs most of the time was great for body comp, but I still wasn’t afraid to have an extra carb meal or dessert on leg days or when doing extra conditioning. As far as body comp goes, the type and volume of training definitely play a role in how many carbs you can consume before spillover.

frauls5015 · January 19, 2015, 9:32pm

[quote]wierenga wrote:
hello everyone…