This is kind of related to CBL. I was recently told by someone that carb loading preworkout was better for maintaining muscle while losing weight, while CBL was better for building muscle. Is this true? I’m getting ready to start a fat loss diet (also doing a EC stack) and was just wondering whether I should change my carbs from PWO to preworkout to better maintain the muscle and strength I have. Or perhaps kind of do both where I’m getting 100-150 pre workout 1-2 hours before. And about 50 grams PWO with protein.
Density Bulking is going good. Gaining roughly .5 lb a week, while looking just as lean, strength is increasing week by week, and I’m not even having to ‘watch’ what I eat. CBL is great.
hi guys was thinking of doing carb back - loading for gaining mass but just wanted some advice before i brought the pdf …
atm im 5foot 7inches 22years old, 134lbs and eating 3500cals a day roughly seeing a lb a week increase but starting to slow down a bit, also under 20% bf…
was just wondering what food i would be eating in the evening after my training as it says that you can eat more “junkier food” is this correct? if so what could i have please could you give some examples so i have an idea please thanks!
I’ve been trying a carb back style approach to my nutrition recently (4 weeks) with good results. I haven’t read the book, but have read this thread from start to finish.
I apply calorie counting approach. I’m eating maintenance cals on off days (3 days pw) and maintenance +500 on training days. My goal is to maintain muscle (or maybe slow gain) and slowly lose fat (1% a month I am more than happy with).
My approach is 1g protein/lb on both days. The remainder cals on off days is purely from fat - eggs, butter, animal fats, flax etc. Also, plenty of greens on these days too.
On training days I will generally have one big fat/protein meal about 4 hours pre-workout (about 800 cal omelette loaded with cheese etc.) I workout around 4pm, and then consume home made chocolate milk as a post workout drink (30 mins or so). I then work from 5-8 normally and will then slam down the carbs and more protein after the workout. I keep it clean - lots of white rice basically (I can easily consume the amount I need). Once I week (normally my squat day) I will use the CBL as a more cheat style - homemade pizza and some homemade cakes etc.
The results have really astounded me. In 4 weeks my strength has gone up and up, whilst my mass has dropped only 1lb, but most of that is fat. It is coming off round my stubborn areas - lower chest, lower abs and glutes. People have said I am looking bigger too - which I did not expect, most probably the effect of looking leaner.
Now, I don’t know if I can put this entirely down to CBL - as with anything in life you can never 100% pinpoint the cause/cure, only associate it with changes. But in the past grazing on carbs all day everyday made me soft and fatter and the low carb approach left my workouts and mood in the dumps.
I have:
- cut down my once weekly binge drink session with the lads to once every 3-4 weeks.
- been eating cleaner foods as a result of CBL. Also, tracking cals more consistently.
- been getting better/more regular sleep.
- been hitting my 4 workouts a week consistently (weekend drinking used to kill my motivation on Monday/Tuesday).
- Have added in some basic conditioning - LISS twice a week either am or pwo. And 2 x 10 minute kettlebell swing or snatch sessions.
- IF style eating. I eat 2 or 3 big meals in a 12 hour time slot normally.
My plan from here is to keep the fat loss coming to below 10% (visible abs atm, but want a lot better definition) and then look to up my calories to gain some more lean mass or look into density bulking.
Yeah I have heard that the results are amazing with carb back loading and it sounds like you have found like wise… Although what you are doing would suit me more for when I want to cut? Atm I want to pack on some quality mass maybe around another 20lbs or so which is why I was wondering if cbl is the right way to go and also I heard that the percentage of body fat dictates the sort of carbs you eat in the evening??
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
hi guys was thinking of doing carb back - loading for gaining mass but just wanted some advice before i brought the pdf …
atm im 5foot 7inches 22years old, 134lbs and eating 3500cals a day roughly seeing a lb a week increase but starting to slow down a bit, also under 20% bf…
was just wondering what food i would be eating in the evening after my training as it says that you can eat more “junkier food” is this correct? if so what could i have please could you give some examples so i have an idea please thanks!
[/quote]
At your size and age, I’d just eat everything in sight and lift like a mofo. CBL could be fun, but you don’t have a lot of mass to need a CBL. If you do go the CBL route, eat pastries, ice cream, etc. Junk.
Thanks for the reply, yeah that’s what I was worrying about was the fact that cbl seems to work better for getting leaner? Or am I on the wrong track? I do like the idea of eating fats and protein through the day as I feel it fuels my workouts much better so maybe carb re feed days may be better? Seeings as I want to put a lot more size on
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
Thanks for the reply, yeah that’s what I was worrying about was the fact that cbl seems to work better for getting leaner? Or am I on the wrong track? I do like the idea of eating fats and protein through the day as I feel it fuels my workouts much better so maybe carb re feed days may be better? Seeings as I want to put a lot more size on [/quote]
I’m doing CBL for mass.
Carb refeed days could potentially work, although I think that’s always worked a lot better for leaning (think about it… CBL = 3-4x a week of carb loads… Carb refeeds normally are 1x a week).
My back-loads are “clean” two nights of the week and dirty two nights of the week. So, this week:
Sunday Backload: 4 cups white rice, 1lb ground beef with seasoning
Monday Backload: 1 large pizza with everything
Wednesday Backload: McDonald’s. Was a late night.
Thursday Backload: 2 pork chops, 1 baked potato, 2 ripe bananas […] a second backload consisting of half a package of Chips Ahoy and two glasses of milk
155 to 162 so far (I’m 5’6").
That’s well good yeah I’m defo thinking cbl is the way to go, do you calorie count or just eat what you want as I’m eating 3500calories and I’m starting to plateua and I’m 5foot 7
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
That’s well good yeah I’m defo thinking cbl is the way to go, do you calorie count or just eat what you want as I’m eating 3500calories and I’m starting to plateua and I’m 5foot 7 [/quote]
I’ve done calorie counting in the past. I don’t really keep track now. Every 3-4 weeks, I 'll track for a day or two just to make sure I didn’t inadvertently go back down. I’ve got my maintenance calculated to about ~3300 (seems about right after experimenting too), so I aim for 3800-4200 calories a day. I’m seeing steady progress, but it is very slow. Fine by me… going up in weight too fast is normally indicative of putting on fat.
Remember that it’s only realistic to see about 15lbs of muscle in a year for a trained individual. Thibs has noted that sometimes 10lbs or even all of it will shoot up in a single 10-12 week program, but all that period of “stasis” and “plateau” set the stage for the weight gain to occur. You can’t make linear gains all the time. If you’re eating in excess and not gaining (sometimes even losing a bit), I wouldn’t sweat it. If, after six months, you haven’t budged, then there’s probably a problem.
But like, three months ago… I was hanging around 157, with weight fluctuations as high as 162, but normally, swinging up to 160 and down to 153… Now I’m averaging 162 with swings up to 166 (more often 164) and typically downs at 160. It’s small progress, but it’s progress.
I could go for the next two weeks weighing 162 most days and feel frustrated that I’m “stalling,” but then I could suddenly be averaging 164 for the third week and for the next month after that.
That’s well good! See everything people are saying is making me really consider it I mean like you get to be that bit looser with food like junkier foods in the evening personally I would do what you do so some clean and some dirtier…
With your meal the 4 cups of rice etc was that all at one sitting or over the space of a few hours like?
I spose with this its harder to go under your daily calories as the foods your allowed to have are that much higher like
Hey guys I’ve been doing a lot of research about cbl and have read many posts by spidey glitch psychosis ryan and sioux from the first cbl thread trying figure out timing numbers meals and what is working best for everyone but I have a few questions.
Exactly at products/brands do you use to supplement for whey isolate/hydrolysates? Isopure is pretty expensive.
Since cbl aids succeeding workouts wouldn’t it make sense to skip cbl after training before your off day and instead backload on the night of an off day?
Could cbl be as effective or more effective using cutting gear? Just curious.
Thanks
ok im still slightly confused with this cbl …
atm i eat around 3500calories a day seen me put on around 1lb a week and i still want to maintain gaining weight and bulking up so how many calories would i have to have on the initial first 10days of this diet as surely there no way i could fit 3500cals in or would need to right? also what foods would i need to eat on them first 10days so far i have it down to -
red meat
chicken with skin on?
full fat cheese
full fat cream
oils
no nuts as im allergic
i guess what im asking is do i need 3500cals a day for them first 10 days? and how much protein and fats should i be consuming as its meant to be 1g or protein per pound of body weight which means i would need 135g as im 135lbs?
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
ok im still slightly confused with this cbl …
atm i eat around 3500calories a day seen me put on around 1lb a week and i still want to maintain gaining weight and bulking up so how many calories would i have to have on the initial first 10days of this diet as surely there no way i could fit 3500cals in or would need to right? also what foods would i need to eat on them first 10days so far i have it down to -
red meat
chicken with skin on?
full fat cheese
full fat cream
oils
no nuts as im allergic
i guess what im asking is do i need 3500cals a day for them first 10 days? and how much protein and fats should i be consuming as its meant to be 1g or protein per pound of body weight which means i would need 135g as im 135lbs? [/quote]
If you’re gaining (and likely going to Density Bulk), then you probably don’t need to do the prep phase IMO. But if you want to, yes, I’d do as he suggests, get a MINIMUM of 1g lb/BW in both fats and protein (though I would go higher on my ULC days. Staples for me included fatty pork, ground beef, eggs, bacon, ranch dressing, EVOO, VCO, sunflower seeds (not sure if those effect your allergy though). You can definitely get in 3500 kcal for the 10 days, but if for some reason you can’t, then fuck it, you lost 10 days, you didn’t gain a pound that week. Move on.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
ok im still slightly confused with this cbl …
atm i eat around 3500calories a day seen me put on around 1lb a week and i still want to maintain gaining weight and bulking up so how many calories would i have to have on the initial first 10days of this diet as surely there no way i could fit 3500cals in or would need to right? also what foods would i need to eat on them first 10days so far i have it down to -
red meat
chicken with skin on?
full fat cheese
full fat cream
oils
no nuts as im allergic
i guess what im asking is do i need 3500cals a day for them first 10 days? and how much protein and fats should i be consuming as its meant to be 1g or protein per pound of body weight which means i would need 135g as im 135lbs? [/quote]
If you’re gaining (and likely going to Density Bulk), then you probably don’t need to do the prep phase IMO. But if you want to, yes, I’d do as he suggests, get a MINIMUM of 1g lb/BW in both fats and protein (though I would go higher on my ULC days. Staples for me included fatty pork, ground beef, eggs, bacon, ranch dressing, EVOO, VCO, sunflower seeds (not sure if those effect your allergy though). You can definitely get in 3500 kcal for the 10 days, but if for some reason you can’t, then fuck it, you lost 10 days, you didn’t gain a pound that week. Move on. [/quote]
PORK BELLY, is slightly amazing get around it!
Thanks for the reply 
… Yeah he says 1g per lb of bw in fats and protein so being 136lbs that would take me below 2000cals so would you recommend I do 1.5g per lb of bw in fat and protein so that I get the calories I needed? … Also when I do the backload on the carbs after training till midnight I would do 1g per lb of bodyweight or would you recommend I go higher like 1.5 or 2? Because atm I eat over 300g carbs in a day anyways
if im on the right track how does this sound for my carb backloads …
junkier day -
keifer coffee - 140 cal 0.5c 15f 0.5p
keifer coffee - 140 cal 0.5c 15f 0.5p
chicken and green veggies - 200cal 5c 3f 40p
3eggs and 3bacon - 400cal 0c 20.5f 35p
train 4-6
straight after - myprotein recovery xs - 275cal 50c 0.5f 25p
pepperoni pizza - 970cal 42p 42f 104c
cinnamon swirl pastry - 350cal 4.5p 22f 33c
100g rice krispies with 300ml milk - 485cal 16.5p 2f 100c
= 2860cal 153p 120f 293c
healthier -
same meals up to after the recovery xs then …
100g gluten free pasta, pork belly slices, bbq sauce - 875cal 48p 34f 92c
100g lion bar cereal with 300ml milk - 515cal 16.5p 8.3f 92c
2 pop tarts - 400cal 4p 12f 70c
= 2926cal 169p 109f 310c
how does that sound is that enough macros? and the food choices are they any good?
Are there any members with a good before/after shot who’ve been on CBL? Struggling to find anything but logs of what everyones eating and stuff, which is all good, but ultimatly the question i’m looking to have answered is how well it handles body re-comp
I saw some shots of the OP’s progres (from the original thread that is) and wasn’t impressed at all.
The diet works but it isn’t a quick fix. CN is more so. Your training has to be spot on. If you aren’t going hard enough the diet won’t work as well. Some people have seen better results training total body. Keifer suggest a combination of Heavy High Intensity, and lighter low intensity work.
My training on CBL has been following my 531 routine for four big lifts and all accessory work covering multiple body parts with high volume work. Mostly in supersets.
[quote]creasey21 wrote:
Thanks for the reply … Yeah he says 1g per lb of bw in fats and protein so being 136lbs that would take me below 2000cals so would you recommend I do 1.5g per lb of bw in fat and protein so that I get the calories I needed? … Also when I do the backload on the carbs after training till midnight I would do 1g per lb of bodyweight or would you recommend I go higher like 1.5 or 2? Because atm I eat over 300g carbs in a day anyways
if im on the right track how does this sound for my carb backloads …
junkier day -
keifer coffee - 140 cal 0.5c 15f 0.5p
keifer coffee - 140 cal 0.5c 15f 0.5p
chicken and green veggies - 200cal 5c 3f 40p
3eggs and 3bacon - 400cal 0c 20.5f 35p
train 4-6
straight after - myprotein recovery xs - 275cal 50c 0.5f 25p
pepperoni pizza - 970cal 42p 42f 104c
cinnamon swirl pastry - 350cal 4.5p 22f 33c
100g rice krispies with 300ml milk - 485cal 16.5p 2f 100c
= 2860cal 153p 120f 293c
healthier -
same meals up to after the recovery xs then …
100g gluten free pasta, pork belly slices, bbq sauce - 875cal 48p 34f 92c
100g lion bar cereal with 300ml milk - 515cal 16.5p 8.3f 92c
2 pop tarts - 400cal 4p 12f 70c
= 2926cal 169p 109f 310c
how does that sound is that enough macros? and the food choices are they any good? [/quote]
Ideally, your “healthy” days shouldn’t include pasta or cereals. Those’re inefficient carbs for CBL. You want white rice, white bread, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, etc. Like, a really awesome hoagie would be a good choice for your healthier days. Or just meat and potatoes.
so replace the pasta with white rice or potatoes and cereal with white bread say and that would be a better healthy day?
also im looking to put on weight bulk up and atm im 22 years old, 5foot 7inches and 136lbs i eat 3500cals a day normally (100gfat 250gpro and about 320g carbs) so would you say them macros with them foods above are a good starting point for gaining some size? or is that too many carbs for my backloads?
also excuse my ignorance but what is a hoagie … im from england lol