Can You Explain This Violent Arrest?

Off Topic
41

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Why you don’t let people walk on you as a cop:

If that dude got a hold of a weapon, he would have killed one of those cops.

You don’t fuck around with police. You call them sir and do what the fuck they say.

If you don’t, they are going to whoop your ass. Learn [/quote]

This is why they should be allowed to use tazers to end the threat quickly but everyone wants to ban the use of them by police officers because ONE guy died from it. Well at least in Canada anyways.

42

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
JLu wrote:
mmllcc wrote:
JLu wrote:
Article: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/10/16/uwo-beating.html#socialcomments

Video: - YouTube

How are police taught to subdue/restrain people? Because it looks like these retards are just using the “If it still moves hit it” approach. There’s like 6 guys there, why can’t they just have 1 guy per limb to pin him down?

The violence can be explained from the fact that the guy kept resisting arrest…and if you think it is so easy to subdue a man bent on not being subdued you should try it some time. Find six of your girlfriends go up to some random guy about your size and try to kidnap him. See how well it works out for you.

Stop comparing apples to lawnmowers; this isn’t a 1v1 confrontation with a temperamental child (as compared to in another post), nor is it me and 6 of my “girlfriends” trying to subdue a much larger man. This is 6 GROWN MEN, who are supposed to be trained in how to deal with situations like this, using a ridiculous amount of force. Has anyone who is agreeing with the force used ever wrestled/grappled or done any type of sparring? It’s pretty simple to pin down a single limb with your entire body.

You have started a thread with a rhetorical question.

It appears that there is no explanation that will satisfy the requirements you have placed on an answer.

The main fallacy which you have engaged in is that the person getting dog piled is the victim. The real victims in this scenario are the people subject to the behavior which warranted the call to the police.

So with that in mind, and given that you are able to make such a glaring mistake, what makes you think that you even deserve an explanation?

It’s not like you are going to get to any core social issues and solve them. You just look like some idiot who wants to de-construct other peoples input without actually adding any useful ideas of your own, or some gawking voyeur who likes to feign incredulity while getting a cheap thrill from someone elses suffering.

[/quote]

It’s not that there isn’t an answer that can satisfy me, it’s just that answers that essentially imply “Cops are God do whatever the fuck they want or suffer the consequences” don’t cut it. I’m not sure about where you come from, but police cruisers where I come from say “To SERVE and protect” not be authoritative douchebags who exploit their priviledges of authority for shits and giggles.

43

[quote]Sarge131 wrote:
Listen, police work isn’t always pretty. While most arrestees are cooperative, some just refuse to be handcuffed and do not want to go to jail. It’s real easy for those of you who have no law enforcement experience to Monday morning quarterback the split second decisions of police officers. Yeah, this went on for quite a while, but had the arrestee simply complied, the incident would have been over. I’ve been a cop for 20 years, and have been in more than a few of these situations. These knee strikes and baton jabs that some of you are outraged by were pain-compliance techniques. Once he stops resisting, so does the force.

Some of you will badmouth the cops no matter what they do. While I have seen some examples of truly excessive force, this was not one of them.[/quote]

So as police officers you’re taught to use the equivalent of a titty twister to make them say uncle instead of techniques to actually disable/immobilize them? That’s just how I’m interpreting “pain compliance techniques”. I understand that situations arise where there’s really no alternative but this certainly didn’t look like one of them, at least to me.

44

[quote]JLu wrote:

It’s not that there isn’t an answer that can satisfy me, it’s just that answers that essentially imply “Cops are God do whatever the fuck they want or suffer the consequences” don’t cut it. I’m not sure about where you come from, but police cruisers where I come from say “To SERVE and protect” not be authoritative douchebags who exploit their priviledges of authority for shits and giggles.[/quote]

Honest question: How old are you?

45

20

46

I’ve been beat up a few times by police, but Since I’ve grown up into a real man, who earns my way, handles myself with respect, and NO LONGER COMMITS CRIMES, except for speeding, and even then pull the F#$% over and let them do their job, I’ve not once been physically threatened by the Police. Maybe it’s just coinsedence.

Hey, but maybe criminals are really just misunderstood, wonderful, loving people, who just deserve all the kindness and compassion everyone else does.
Damn those mean cops

47

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
someguyyy wrote:
Fuzzyapple wrote:
Well to me it looks like the guy was trying to get away.At 0.18 sec they don’t have him under restraint so how can you not use force? He was also holding the police officer’s leg etc. But near the end little excessive, IMO. The article said they used batons I saw no such thing.

24-30 seconds in you can see the cop closest and to the right hitting him with a baton, and you can hear it clacking on the ground a few times as the video goes on. Hey may or may not have been resisting a little bit, but IMO it was QUITE excessive. I understand it’s their safety, but it was also HIS safety on the line.

Well the dude broke two critical rules that put him in that situation and he has to deal with the consequences, those two things being, 1) don’t give the cops a reason to arrest you and 2) don’t resist.

Also, WTF do you think a baton is for, if not to hit people with?[/quote]

Anal rape?

48

Oh no cops are too violent. I guess they should let people walk all over them. If you treat a cop with respect, you will most likely get respect in return. If you cuss, spit and refuse to co-operate because you have some grunge with cops then expect them to be assholes back and use force on you.

Do you even realise how stupid this debate is?

49

This thread makes me angry, I am going to school to get a criminal justice degree and become a police officer. If you resist the police they will beat the shit out of you, as they should. All this crying about them being too rough and too authoritative is fucking ridiculous.

When you become a part of a civilized society you agree to follow the laws. If you don’t follow the laws you will be arrested. If you don’t follow the law “don’t resist arrest” you will get the shit beaten out of you until you stop resisting arrest.

Take home points, don’t break the law, if you do, do not resist arrest, stop being a pussy and crying because some asshole got arrested.

50

[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
This thread makes me angry, I am going to school to get a criminal justice degree and become a police officer. If you resist the police they will beat the shit out of you, as they should. All this crying about them being too rough and too authoritative is fucking ridiculous.

When you become a part of a civilized society you agree to follow the laws. If you don’t follow the laws you will be arrested. If you don’t follow the law “don’t resist arrest” you will get the shit beaten out of you until you stop resisting arrest.

Take home points, don’t break the law, if you do, do not resist arrest, stop being a pussy and crying because some asshole got arrested.[/quote]

I dont think you�´re not quite there yet.

When you have really grown up you realize that there is no way whatsoever that you will follow some laws.

However, law enforcement does not consist of the sharpest knives in the drawer so breaking laws and getting away with it is not that hard, especially not with victim less crimes.

If however a cop wants to arrest you, you either a) call him Sir, do what he says and get your lawyer on the phone or b) shoot him.

Twisting and moaning like a little bitch while he tries to handcuff you is just teenage rebellion.

51

[quote]JLu wrote:
Article: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/10/16/uwo-beating.html#socialcomments

Video: - YouTube

How are police taught to subdue/restrain people? Because it looks like these retards are just using the “If it still moves hit it” approach. There’s like 6 guys there, why can’t they just have 1 guy per limb to pin him down?[/quote]

Actually they are trained to follow the “If it still moves hit it” approach. The guy was still resisting. He’s going to get hit.

52

It’s not as black and white as saying that “it’s ALWAYS just for cops to use violent”, neither is it to say that this was excessive force.

If you commit a crime, you deserve to get your ass beat. The article states that the guy was “out of control and delusional”. What does that mean? Was he harassing people? Was he simply making alot of noise?

Personally I think that the violence used was excessive, it shouldn’t be so hard to properly subdue a student as an officer that you have to literally knock him unconcious just to restrain him.

53

[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
Cops tend to get the finger pointed at them when videos like this surface. A couple points…

1.) Its hard to make out exactly what is happening in that video, but it does look like the guy is resisting them. You resist, its fair game for physical detainment.

2.) Cops aren’t supposed to give “a fair fight”. Who cares if there are 12 of them on one guy? Their job is to handcuff the suspect and not get hurt in the process.

3.) UWO tends to get more than its share of complete douchebags. Not necessarily related…just saying.[/quote]

You’re point #2 is exactly right. Cops aren’t supposed to be fair.
You resist, they are supposed to use a weapon (baton, pepper spray). You resist with a weapon, they use a gun. You resist with a gun, they call the ETF (SWAT). Fighting “fair” means cops get killed.

54

[quote]orion wrote:
b) shoot him.

[/quote]

You can stop that fucking noise right now. I’m not even going to go further with it. Never go full retard, even though you are just running your mouth, you need to stop.

55

[quote]orion wrote:
VikingsAD28 wrote:
This thread makes me angry, I am going to school to get a criminal justice degree and become a police officer. If you resist the police they will beat the shit out of you, as they should. All this crying about them being too rough and too authoritative is fucking ridiculous.

When you become a part of a civilized society you agree to follow the laws. If you don’t follow the laws you will be arrested. If you don’t follow the law “don’t resist arrest” you will get the shit beaten out of you until you stop resisting arrest.

Take home points, don’t break the law, if you do, do not resist arrest, stop being a pussy and crying because some asshole got arrested.

I dont think you�??�?�´re not quite there yet.

When you have really grown up you realize that there is no way whatsoever that you will follow some laws.

However, law enforcement does not consist of the sharpest knives in the drawer so breaking laws and getting away with it is not that hard, especially not with victim less crimes.

If however a cop wants to arrest you, you either a) call him Sir, do what he says and get your lawyer on the phone or b) shoot him.

Twisting and moaning like a little bitch while he tries to handcuff you is just teenage rebellion.

[/quote]

I understand that everyone will not follow the law and that certain laws will be broken and its just not that big of a deal.

As in any career there are some people who are less than intelligent. Just because people get away with breaking the law, doesn’t make all police stupid. We don’t live in a society with martial law and constant surveillance, so it is impossible to enforce every law all the time. The point that I was trying to make (which I made pretty poorly) is that if you get caught breaking the law, depending on the offense, you will get arrested. If you do not do anything to deserve getting hit by the police you will not get hit, or you will get massive amounts of money if you do.

I agree with your last two sentences, minus “shoot him.”

56

[quote]JLu wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:

I was under the impression that police batons were for taking down a potentially dangerous armed assailant (though not dangerously armed enough to warrant the use of their firearm), not gangbeating people into submission. Are police not taught any form of martial arts or grappling/wrestling? Hell they could have had 1 guy straddle each limb and that would pretty effectively make him immobile no?[/quote]

Incorrect. Police are trained to use batons if the person is unarmed and resisting. If the assailant is armed, police are trained to use their guns (and they always shoot for the center of the chest, no “shoot them in the leg” BS).

Police recieve a few hours of hand to hand combat training when they go to OPC (police college in Ontario). That is pretty much a token gesture however as it many of these cops haven’t practiced it in 10 or 15 years.

58

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
orion wrote:
b) shoot him.

You can stop that fucking noise right now. I’m not even going to go further with it. Never go full retard, even though you are just running your mouth, you need to stop.

[/quote]

I actually mean every word I wrote.

Or do you really believe that I have lost one night of sleep over a police officer shot in a no knock drug raid?

You think I do not believe that you either REALLY resist or not at all when they come for you, for what reason ever?

So what is your problem?

59

There have been threads on here before like this,and my response to this one is gonna be the same as the last one.

Dont fucking break the law, dont resist arrest and maybe you wont get your ass beat by a bunch of cops.

You guys act like cops just help old ladys cross the street all day and make presentations at elementary schools.Cops deal with the scum of our society all day and have to follow protocol, so when some guy resists arrest or acts tough they probably get mad much quicker than say we would because they deal with that shit all day.

If there was no prison there wouldnt be any reason to follow the rules, if cops didnt beat the shit out of someone once in awhile it wouldnt give me any reason to not smart of and resist arrest.But I dont want a knee on the back of my neck while geeting beat with a billy club, So I dont fuck around.

60

[quote]orion wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
orion wrote:
b) shoot him.

You can stop that fucking noise right now. I’m not even going to go further with it. Never go full retard, even though you are just running your mouth, you need to stop.

I actually mean every word I wrote.

Or do you really believe that I have lost one night of sleep over a police officer shot in a no knock drug raid?

You think I do not believe that you either REALLY resist or not at all when they come for you, for what reason ever?

So what is your problem?

[/quote]

You are a sick individual.

62

[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
orion wrote:
VikingsAD28 wrote:
This thread makes me angry, I am going to school to get a criminal justice degree and become a police officer. If you resist the police they will beat the shit out of you, as they should. All this crying about them being too rough and too authoritative is fucking ridiculous.

When you become a part of a civilized society you agree to follow the laws. If you don’t follow the laws you will be arrested. If you don’t follow the law “don’t resist arrest” you will get the shit beaten out of you until you stop resisting arrest.

Take home points, don’t break the law, if you do, do not resist arrest, stop being a pussy and crying because some asshole got arrested.

I dont think you�??�??�?�´re not quite there yet.

When you have really grown up you realize that there is no way whatsoever that you will follow some laws.

However, law enforcement does not consist of the sharpest knives in the drawer so breaking laws and getting away with it is not that hard, especially not with victim less crimes.

If however a cop wants to arrest you, you either a) call him Sir, do what he says and get your lawyer on the phone or b) shoot him.

Twisting and moaning like a little bitch while he tries to handcuff you is just teenage rebellion.

I understand that everyone will not follow the law and that certain laws will be broken and its just not that big of a deal.

As in any career there are some people who are less than intelligent. Just because people get away with breaking the law, doesn’t make all police stupid. We don’t live in a society with martial law and constant surveillance, so it is impossible to enforce every law all the time. The point that I was trying to make (which I made pretty poorly) is that if you get caught breaking the law, depending on the offense, you will get arrested. If you do not do anything to deserve getting hit by the police you will not get hit, or you will get massive amounts of money if you do.

I agree with your last two sentences, minus “shoot him.”[/quote]

But there is an incentive structure in US law right now that makes it more than reasonable for some criminals to shoot a cop.

I do not know how many “three strikes” laws are still around in the US but if a cop wants to arrest you and you have every reason to believe that would be convicted then what are your choices in these cases?

A) Shoot him and risk a life sentence.

B) Do not shoot him and go to jail for life for sure.

Do shoot this cop would not be unreasonable or personal, just a sound business decision.