Can You Explain This Violent Arrest?

[quote]JLu wrote:
Article: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/10/16/uwo-beating.html#socialcomments

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQnU6-YXsSo

How are police taught to subdue/restrain people? Because it looks like these retards are just using the “If it still moves hit it” approach. There’s like 6 guys there, why can’t they just have 1 guy per limb to pin him down?[/quote]

The violence can be explained from the fact that the guy kept resisting arrest…and if you think it is so easy to subdue a man bent on not being subdued you should try it some time. Find six of your girlfriends go up to some random guy about your size and try to kidnap him. See how well it works out for you.

on that second camera angle can you really tell me why the cop needed to punch the guy in the head a bunch of times. Last time i checked police are suppose to keep the public safe,even criminals from themselves (hence no shoes with laces or belts in jail), and that criminal is not supposed to get beat up even if he did commit a crime. The criminal did not resist with violence so the police officers over the top violence was not justified.

[quote]someguyyy wrote:
Fuzzyapple wrote:
Well to me it looks like the guy was trying to get away.At 0.18 sec they don’t have him under restraint so how can you not use force? He was also holding the police officer’s leg etc. But near the end little excessive, IMO. The article said they used batons I saw no such thing.

24-30 seconds in you can see the cop closest and to the right hitting him with a baton, and you can hear it clacking on the ground a few times as the video goes on. Hey may or may not have been resisting a little bit, but IMO it was QUITE excessive. I understand it’s their safety, but it was also HIS safety on the line.[/quote]

He is a grown adult - he is responsible for his own safety and HE jeopardizes it by resisting like he does…not the cops. The should have just said the hell with it and shot him the leg. He would’ve been easier to control after that.

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
The problem is… police are lazy or unfunded or untrained or all 3. They have no real tactics to take down someone they see as a threat that throws a little resistance. So the revert to the beatem and knock em out strategy. We see it time and time again. This will never stop.
[/quote]

Actually, in departments where it’s allowed they have tazers. Tazers send an electrical charge that disrupts your nervous system so that you cannot use your muscles for a few seconds, and are weak for a short while after. Not all departments have tazers because they have a very bad reputation, which is largely unfounded.

Things that get me:

  • We weren’t there. We didn’t see what he was doing, and how hard he was fitting. The man was 220lbs, not a small number. I remember trying to put a pair of socks and shoes on my autistic brother when he was six, it took almost twenty minutes and ended with my nose bleeding all over the place. Honestly, had he been 220lbs, it could very well have taken 4 - 6 people, and still wouldn’t have been easy. As will the suspect, there are things that can’t be done that would make arresting easier–they didn’t punch him in the throat, twist his groin, jam their thumbs into their eyes, put him in armlocks that could lead to permanent disabilities should the moron twist it wrong while resisting, etc. Trying to do that while avoiding get bit and clocked in the face is much harder than many would think it is. They can’t just attack from any position, either, because they always have to keep their weapons angled in such a way that the person they’re trying to subdue can’t be grabbed and used against them. Also, the man could have had a weapon, which would have compounded the issue.

My opinion–given the factors of trying to subdue him in a way that doesn’t cause major damage, that doesn’t place the cop in a vulnerable position, and the fact that he weighed 220lbs, it doesn’t seem unreasonable that they were all fighting with him.

  • Also, it never seems to get brought up on these videos that people can simply choose to NOT FIGHT with them. Jeez, this isn’t commy China people, you’re not doomed if arrested. Also, the cops aren’t just going to go, "well, you put up a good fight, son, so we’re gonna let you go’. They’re just going to fight harder, and you end up in jail anyway, only sore and stiff and bruised.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
dirtbag wrote:
The problem is… police are lazy or unfunded or untrained or all 3. They have no real tactics to take down someone they see as a threat that throws a little resistance. So the revert to the beatem and knock em out strategy. We see it time and time again. This will never stop.

Actually, in departments where it’s allowed they have tazers. Tazers send an electrical charge that disrupts your nervous system so that you cannot use your muscles for a few seconds, and are weak for a short while after. Not all departments have tazers because they have a very bad reputation, which is largely unfounded.[/quote]

Except for…you know… the several people that die form them every year that were not involved in a capital crime and the oft taze happy cops that do use them. Don’t get me wrong I think the guy in this video had it coming. If they tell you to stop, you’d better stop. But tazers are out of line.

[quote]elano wrote:
Check out the view from the other side plus a college girl’s ass.

In the comments, it says he was charged with L.W.B. (learning while black) haha j/k, this was canada right, not mississippi 1962

[quote]mmllcc wrote:
JLu wrote:
Article: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/10/16/uwo-beating.html#socialcomments

Video: - YouTube

How are police taught to subdue/restrain people? Because it looks like these retards are just using the “If it still moves hit it” approach. There’s like 6 guys there, why can’t they just have 1 guy per limb to pin him down?

The violence can be explained from the fact that the guy kept resisting arrest…and if you think it is so easy to subdue a man bent on not being subdued you should try it some time. Find six of your girlfriends go up to some random guy about your size and try to kidnap him. See how well it works out for you.[/quote]

Stop comparing apples to lawnmowers; this isn’t a 1v1 confrontation with a temperamental child (as compared to in another post), nor is it me and 6 of my “girlfriends” trying to subdue a much larger man. This is 6 GROWN MEN, who are supposed to be trained in how to deal with situations like this, using a ridiculous amount of force. Has anyone who is agreeing with the force used ever wrestled/grappled or done any type of sparring? It’s pretty simple to pin down a single limb with your entire body.

At one point the guy is propped up on one elbow and is trying to get up. The “punches to the face” actually look like strikes to that arm. I agree that’s it’s very hard to see.

JLu - while you may have grappling/sparring experience, it’s a whole different game when bites, gouges, and groin shots are in play.

Better:

[quote]JDSoFla wrote:
Better:

Wow, there are no words.

[quote]JDSoFla wrote:
Better:

The guy hit a cop with his car earlier in the vid. Attacking him later was unwarranted but understandable.

Excellent point. Poor, poor guy, getting beat on by cops after RESISTING ARREST. And the argument that they should know how to handle this situation, two points:

  1. there are five or six of them in the middle of a battle, they didn’t exactly have time to dirt dive it and say, ‘Okay, Bert, you grab his right arm, Lou, go for the left. Bob, you get his right leg, Steve gets the left, and I’ll be the pivot man.’ get real, people. The best option in this situation is overwhelming force, and that is what they are going for.

  2. Yes, cops are taught basic grappling/detainment skills in the academy, but any LEO will tell you they get very little time after that for skill maintenance. This leaves them with doing it off duty when they can find the time, which is very lacking with the typical LEO schedule.

Maybe the perp is the one who needs to come up with a better strategy, like maybe DON’T RESIST. If you follow a cop’s instructions right off the bat, and they pull some shady shit, then you’ve got them by the balls. If you physically resist even the least bit, then any case you had just went out the window.

Falcon Punch!

Listen, police work isn’t always pretty. While most arrestees are cooperative, some just refuse to be handcuffed and do not want to go to jail. It’s real easy for those of you who have no law enforcement experience to Monday morning quarterback the split second decisions of police officers. Yeah, this went on for quite a while, but had the arrestee simply complied, the incident would have been over. I’ve been a cop for 20 years, and have been in more than a few of these situations. These knee strikes and baton jabs that some of you are outraged by were pain-compliance techniques. Once he stops resisting, so does the force.

Some of you will badmouth the cops no matter what they do. While I have seen some examples of truly excessive force, this was not one of them.

Lol at this thread. The people complaining about the arrest are a bunch of fucking over-feminized pussies. This is the same shit you hear when cops gun a guy down and my mom and sister go, “Couldn’t they have shot him in the leg instead?” The answer is no. You resist arrest or do anything that even REMOTELY jeopardizes the safety of an officer and you are going to get beat the fuck down. At that point, your safety is the most remote concern in the world and the cops are totally justified in taking whatever precautions necessary to ensure their safety even at the expense of your comfort.

This is not to say that the police have never used excessive force, because they have. But this ain’t it, kids.

[quote]BiggieBenAgain wrote:
actually if cops started hitting me I would do absolutely nothing. I would intertwine my fingers behind my back and ask them to cuff me. I am of a size that I have had cops (friends and others) that told me they would shoot me if I resisted.

The only way to win in a confrontation with the police is to submit. If they are obviously in the wrong you will win in court. It’s like if you are in a bar and your told to leave. you can fight the bouncer and might even win the fist fight. You either get your ass kicked or you don’t. either way you ain’t getting another F-ing drink. so you lose.

If you give them any reason to kick your ass legally you lose. you get your ass kicked and you still go to jail.

Just my opinion. [/quote]

The best post in this whole thread.

[quote]JLu wrote:
mmllcc wrote:
JLu wrote:
Article: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/10/16/uwo-beating.html#socialcomments

Video: - YouTube

How are police taught to subdue/restrain people? Because it looks like these retards are just using the “If it still moves hit it” approach. There’s like 6 guys there, why can’t they just have 1 guy per limb to pin him down?

The violence can be explained from the fact that the guy kept resisting arrest…and if you think it is so easy to subdue a man bent on not being subdued you should try it some time. Find six of your girlfriends go up to some random guy about your size and try to kidnap him. See how well it works out for you.

Stop comparing apples to lawnmowers; this isn’t a 1v1 confrontation with a temperamental child (as compared to in another post), nor is it me and 6 of my “girlfriends” trying to subdue a much larger man. This is 6 GROWN MEN, who are supposed to be trained in how to deal with situations like this, using a ridiculous amount of force. Has anyone who is agreeing with the force used ever wrestled/grappled or done any type of sparring? It’s pretty simple to pin down a single limb with your entire body.[/quote]

You have started a thread with a rhetorical question.

It appears that there is no explanation that will satisfy the requirements you have placed on an answer.

The main fallacy which you have engaged in is that the person getting dog piled is the victim. The real victims in this scenario are the people subject to the behavior which warranted the call to the police.

So with that in mind, and given that you are able to make such a glaring mistake, what makes you think that you even deserve an explanation?

It’s not like you are going to get to any core social issues and solve them. You just look like some idiot who wants to de-construct other peoples input without actually adding any useful ideas of your own, or some gawking voyeur who likes to feign incredulity while getting a cheap thrill from someone elses suffering.

Why you don’t let people walk on you as a cop:

If that dude got a hold of a weapon, he would have killed one of those cops.

You don’t fuck around with police. You call them sir and do what the fuck they say.

If you don’t, they are going to whoop your ass. Learn

The police never know if the perp. has a weapon on them, any free limb can equal a death or serious injury to one of the police. You keep his neck free and he bites someone, keep an arm/hand free and he might have a knife stashed somewhere and kill someone. The police need to lock down each arm AND remove the desire to resist from the perp. while he is on the ground. If they simply lock down his limbs on the ground, once they stand him up to walk him, his limbs are free again.