Calvert and Milo Barbell

Training Training Logs
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I had a question about this, but didn’t want to clutter his thread or add to any confusion.

Why the preference for lean cuts?

I’m asking in general, not in his case. His trouble getting carbs in because he’s eating too much meat is a bit unique.

In the general case I tend to think along the lines of fat = flavor, more [natural] flavor leads to less seasonings (especially salts) and more protein intake. My typical perspective is most people get too many of their calories from carbs, and fatty carbs at that, so switching to tasty [fattier] meat seems like it would be a better option.

Extending that further, most people who want to lose weight are doing a least some exercise, if not too much exercise, so biasing toward protein and away from carbs will bias toward muscle and higher calorie-burning-at-rest. Even if the fat levels stay similar.

So as a general statement, I’m wondering why you’d recommend leaner cuts of meat.

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So, lean cuts are usually the best choice for folks who are looking to lean out/improve body comp because they are lower in calories and higher in protein per ounce.

As a comparison 1 ounce of rib eye has 83 kcals, 6 grams of fat, 3 grams of saturated fat and 7 grams protein; 1 ounce of chicken breast has 47 kcals, 1 gram fat, 0.3 grams sat fat and 9 grams of protein. At the end of the day, the lean stuff provides more protein for fewer calories.

Also, most folks are eating traditionally raised meats, these meats are higher in Omega 6 fatty acids and saturated fats which both contribute to inflammation. If you’re doing grass fed, the fattier cuts are more acceptable because they have overall, less fat and less omega 6 and saturated fat and are higher in omega 3 fatty acids (anti-inflammatory).

I’ve spent the bulk of my career working in the Paleo/Keto world and have seen in many cases, that when folks switch from a lean meat focused diet to a no rules about fat, rib eyes and coconut oil for everyone style of eating, in a lot of cases, their triglycerides and cholesterol levels skyrocket. This isn’t always the case, but without knowing more about the person, it’s another reason for my lean meat rec.

Yes, a higher fat diet can be more satiating, but there’s a whole lot of people that don’t have normal hunger/fullness cues. So, when weight loss, leaning out and body comp goals are on the table - lean meats are always my go to.

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Thanks for the explanation.

Things I didn’t know, especially the triglyceride and cholesterol changes.

I know there was (maybe still is) a lot of mixed data around the relationship between dietary cholesterol from eggs and serum cholesterol, but it’s interesting you’ve seen that with meats.

With respect to the Omega 3 vs 6 balance, I once thought that was extremely important (was a little brainwashed by supplement marketing), but then changed my tune on that too. My current perspective is it’s a very minor thing with very minor effects and can be reasonably ignored. But maybe I’m wrong on that.

I think what shifted my opinion was being introduced to Chinese cuisine(s) and derivatives, and seeing the sheer quantity of pork, fatty meats and animal fats used. Also lots of aged/preserved ingredients. This was in stark contrast to the American fears that all those things make you obese and unhealthy, where ideas from things like the mediterranean diet were touted as ideals; lots of fresh vegetables in salad-form, lots of salmon, lots of as-fresh-as-possible olive oil.

Instead it was meals of ground fatty pork + years-old preserved bean sauces + salted preserved soy sauces + high-omega-6 canola oil + massive amounts of refined carbohydrates. And yet far less obesity and serious health issues than here, across almost all social strata.

Obviously there’s some other major differences, like significantly increased [cooked] vegetable intake, and ingesting more bone/tendon/connective tissue.

So that shifted my opinion quite a bit. My current opinion is pretty much that healthy eating is: make sure you have lots of vegetables + eat minimally processed food. Seasonality matters some, but cooking from “real ingredients” matters more.

However, in contrast to what I just said, south-Asian/Indian cuisine has a lot of those same characteristics but far more obesity and health problems. I haven’t really identified what the difference is. At the same time when it comes to “anti-inflammatory” foods and spices, I think they are second to none.

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One of the more unique ideas I’ve seen expressed is the notion that many of these things that we consider “unhealthy” are unhealthy in the context of WITHIN the “standard American diet”. Fiber is where I’ve personally experienced this. I believed in the value of fiber for a long time, and recently went in the complete opposite direction: an effectively ZERO fiber diet. And, crazy enough: my digestion is the best it’s ever been. HOWEVER, that’s within the context of a diet that is about 99% animal products. When eating THAT way, fiber’s importance is reduced: there is very little waste in my colon in the first place, so there is minimal concern for having a large bolus of fiber to “clear it out”. But, if eating a standard American diet of highly processed and refined carbs and minimal protein, fiber becomes VERY important for digestion: there is SO much waste that needs to be cleared.

Similarly, I theorize that many of the things we demonize ARE unhealthy IF eating in an “average” way. BUT, if the diet is radically different, so too, is the impact of these practices.

But, of course, just an idea.

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#Facts

When I make blanket recs for folks whose diets I know little or nothing about - lean meats are where we go, because the carb intake is often high and processed. If you play to extremes, rules change. You can be healthy eating an extremely low fat, high carb diet or an extremely low carb, high fat diet. But a high carb, high fat diet is a recipe for disaster and most folks fall in right here.

This is entirely correct! And when I know more about the person I’m working with and their diet - my recs look different.

Fatty meats aren’t a bad choice for everyone, but they can be bad choice for some. Lean meats can be good for everyone - so, they are a safe recommendation all around.

I hope this helps you understand why I make the recs that I do!

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I genuinely feel like a dog that just got a pat on the head from it’s owner, haha.

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Curious, what dietary interventions you’ve seen have the most positive impact here? (Recognising the following conversation that gives the topic much greater nuance - I guess I’m asking for the standard slob diet, but feel free to add any noticeable changes for healthier meat heads!).

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(In case there was any doubt, feel free to continue discussion in here.)

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Haha sorry, but yes I had made that assumption, always happy to move it, but felt like a continuation.

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In the interest of this discussion, dinner.

Lean meat with a side of Omega 3s and 6s :slight_smile:

IMG_9014
IMG_90144032×3024 2.25 MB

Pork tenderloin with celery root (marinated in rice wine, potato starch, soy sauce, cooked in canola). Noodles in fresh scallion oil. Cherry tomato medley slow sautéed in extra virgin olive oil, garlic, fresh basil.

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What I’ve seen works best for most is a diet that is focused around non-starchy vegetables and lean meats; low-ish in carbs (with most carbs coming from starchy veggies - sweet potatoes, potatoes, winter squash, parsnips, etc.) and low in saturated fat and moderate in fat overall (with fat coming from olive/avocado oil, avocados, and moderate amounts of nuts/seeds).

So, a very paleo-style of eating - like what real cavepeople ate, not what today’s paleo diet has morphed into. READ: There is no such thing as a “paleo cookie”. Stick to real food and don’t eat like an @ss hat, and numbers “magically” go down. Weird, huh? lol

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LOL! Take the win because every time you post a pic of a meal with egg whites and pork rinds, I want to yell, “JUST EAT THE YOLKS AND THROW THE DAMN PORK RINDS AWAY!”, and then send you to the dog house. :rofl:

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I DO eat the yolks! Haha. I feel like people think I’m meticulously out there separating yolks from whites and throwing away the yolks. I’m using egg whites out of a carton, and it’s just to have a side dish to up my protein. The pork rinds only show up when gaining is on the menu, haha. Easy to add, and easy to take away.

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Enjoy the snip.
Mine is in my log about 2 years ago. Maybe 2.5 years.

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Thanks, be interesting to see my numbers, pretty much doing that for the last two months, retest in a Jan!

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Said no one ever!

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I went through a similar finding myself. I was never a believer in the value of fiber, but when I was doing my kind-of-stupid milk diet long ago, where I effectively lived off of whole milk and only whole milk for a few months, I found there was also no need for fiber at all.

With the milk, I just assumed it was mainly because of the fat content, so I’m actually a bit surprised you’ve seen that too. It makes me now wonder what it is in the “standard American diet” that isn’t getting cleared well. Do you know?

“First do no harm”. Makes sense.

Also, speaking of what real cavepeople ate, this is an interesting bit of knowledge I came across earlier this year:

https://www.archaeology.org/news/11184-230208-neanderthal-crab-roast

evidence that Neanderthals cooked and ate brown crabs some 90,000 years ago has been uncovered in Portugal’s Gruta de Figueira Brava

Surprising because of a lot of reasons, including that I didn’t know Neanderthals even had fire.

I need more crab in my life.

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My most immediate answer is “plants”

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Days 3 and 4 of recovery seem to be worse than first couple days. :grimacing: Glad I work from home, have flexibility, and have good drugs :slight_smile:

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Uncooked plants, especially, I suppose. Cooking seems to help the body digest things better (surprise?).

French and Italian cuisine have a lot of uncooked vegetables too… but they also invented medicated digestif/digestivo liquor to deal with it…