Calling All Thyroid Experts!

Pharma TRT
1

Thyroid
Thyroid1920×1036 68 KB

I found some pretty stellar resources for thyroid information but it’s on another forum and linking them is against the rules.

In the interest of full disclosure: I know nothing of Thyroid Function or testing beyond what I’m copying and paste-ing here.
Do not rely on this for medical advice, it is informational only.

I will copy the entire article, then put an AI generated TL;DR at the bottom.

If you are well-read in thyroid information, please tell me where any of this is wrong! I have looked over many forums for good thyroid info and have found nothing until this.

A brief overview of information I will post:
Thyroid Function Tests:

  • TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) is the primary test for thyroid function.
  • A high TSH level may indicate hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) and a low TSH level may indicate hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid).
  • Free T4 and sometimes Total T4 test measure thyroid hormone levels.
  • Other tests like Antithyroid antibodies, T3 resin uptake, Reverse T3 and Thyroglobulin are used in specific situations.
  • The “normal” TSH range can vary depending on the lab and age.

Thyroid Medications for Hypothyroidism:

  • Levothyroxine (T4): This is the most common medication prescribed, but some people may not convert T4 to the active form T3 well.
  • Liothyronine (T3): This is the active form of thyroid hormone and can be prescribed in combination with Levothyroxine.
  • Desiccated Thyroid (Armour): This is a “natural” medication made from animal thyroid glands and contains a mix of T4 and T3 in a pre-set ratio (usually 4:1 T4 to T3).

Key Points:

  • There is ongoing debate about the best way to diagnose and treat thyroid problems.
  • Some studies suggest that looking at changes in hormone levels, even within the normal range, might be useful.
  • The best medication for a patient depends on their individual needs and how they respond to treatment.
  • It is important to work with a doctor to find the best treatment option.
5 Likes
2

4char

1 Like
3

4char

1 Like
4

4char

1 Like
5

4char

1 Like
6

4char

1 Like
7

4char

1 Like
8

I haven’t been online since first talking to @Dani_Shugart about this a few days ago, but thank you for the thread idea, and thank you, @anon6371718, for getting it started. You got it off to a much more helpful start than I would’ve. I don’t expect many (but maybe I’ll be surprised) posters to have a ton of knowlege about this, but it’ll be nice to have a place to gather any material that might be helpful for future reference. @QuadQueen - you always have helpful things to say regarding nutrition. Is any of this in your wheelhouse?

@Dani_Shugart - I will check out “The Thyroid Fixer”! Seeing that podcast title actually is what made me think to check with you. Hopefully they’ve got some good stuff. And I’ll have to look more into progesterone.

She is about to turn 42, and I believe takes levothyroxine. I think the dosage has changed over time as she has noticed side affects or not noticed desired affects. I’m not quite sure.

2 Likes
9

I am reposting most of the original post from Dani’s log that started this thread, for anyone looking for any background info of why I am asking. If anyone else has their own situations to consider or wants to know different thyroid-related things, please feel free to say whatever.

2 Likes
10

This is such a fantastic thread! I’m going to share it on T Nation’s Twitter because thyroid issues are pretty common, and this has the potential to help a lot of people. Thanks again @anon6371718 for the time you spent gathering info and getting this thread rolling.

And thanks @jshaving for asking such a great question to begin with! You guys are the best!

2 Likes
11

Great collection of information on this thread. I would just add that excessive thyroid supplementation in the pursuit of “optimal” levels may be harmful as well. Here are some resources that outline the “live fast, die fast” relationship between thyroid hormone and longevity:

Experimental models in animals demonstrate the effects of higher levels of thyroid hormones in otherwise healthy animals. An excerpt from the following paper:

THs are known to accelerate basal metabolism and increase oxygen consumption, thus leading to increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) production and oxidative stress 22,23. Additionally, THs are able to unsaturate membrane phospholipids, leading to membrane damage and mitochondria lipid peroxidation 24,25. Such pro-oxidant effects are tissue-dependent, with liver and heart more subject to oxidative stress than spleen and glycolytic muscle fibers 26. However, THs can also affect the cell antioxidant status, directly (iodine compounds act as free radical scavengers able to reduce oxidative damage in vitro) 27,28 or indirectly, by stimulating or inhibiting the activity of antioxidant enzymes 29,30 and free radical scavengers 31. Such an ambivalence in producing and counteracting oxidative stress has lead to controversial results about pro-oxidant or anti-oxidant activity by THs 31-38.

Recently, it has been demonstrated that binding of triiodothyronine (T3) to thyroid hormone receptor B (THRB) induces DNA damage and cell senescence. The mechanism of such a THRB mediated disruption of cell homeostasis is related to the activation of ataxia telangiectasia mutated (ATM)/adenosine monophosphate–activated protein kinase (PRKAA) signal transduction and nuclear respiratory factor 1 (NRF1), with consequent stimulation of mitochondrial respiration, increased production of ROS, and DNA damage ultimately leading to premature cell senescence 39. Studies in animal models seem to confirm this view. Indeed, several mice models of longevity, either naturally long-living or manipulated and genetic mutant strains, share some commons traits, among which low levels of THs. The naked mole rat (NMR), the longest-living rodent, shows very low levels of thyroxine (0.004 ± 0.001 mg/dl) 40. Moreover, it has been also shown that experimental hypothyroidism increased the lifespan of Wistar rats up to 28 months, while experimental hyperthyroidism reduced lifespan 41. Hypothyroidism was found associated with reduced ROS generation and oxidative damage, while hyperthyroidism was found associated with an increase in ROS production and a compensatory increase in anti-oxidant defense enzyme levels in several studies on murine models 29,42-44.

Ames and Snell dwarf mice represent an interesting model to investigate the impact of endocrine disorders on lifespan. They are naturally mutant mice characterized by pituitary hormone deficiencies (growth hormone -GH-, prolactin and TSH, and a consequent low level of circulating THs) resulting in small body size and delayed puberty. Ames and Snell dwarf mutant mice were found to live 40-70% longer than mice with normal thyroid hormone levels 45. It is worth noting that these mice not only live longer, but are also an example of successful aging, since they exhibit a less frequent development of age-related chronic diseases, including cataracts, kidney disease, and cancer with respect to wild type mice 45-48. Finally, long lasting administration of thyroxine was found to shorten dramatically their lifespan, though they still lived longer than wild type mice 45. In conclusion, the above described experimental studies clearly suggest that hypothyroid state may favor longevity by reducing metabolism rate, oxidative stress and cell senescence.

There’s a mechanism for harm laid out by the experimental studies: running the metabolism too hot with excessive thyroid hormone increases oxidative stress, leads to premature cell senescence, and premature aging. While humans are not naked mole rats, wistar rats, or ames and snell dwarf mice, we see the same pattern in humans, where lower thyroid function is associated with longer lives. The picture that emerges here suggests a cavalier attitude toward thyroid optimization may cause harm to patients in the long run.

1 Like
12

I don’t have a heck of a lot that I can add and am most certainly not a thyroid expert. The info that @anon6371718 and @FunkOdyssey have dropped here is absolutely fantastic though. I learned a whole bunch!! Thanks guys!

On the weight loss side of things for your mom @jshaving, if she’s medicated to bring her thyroid levels to normal ranges, weight loss should be possible. I have had clients that have lost significant weight with hypothyroid that is being treated, but I’ve also had clients in the same situation that have harder times. I’m not sure if that’s all thyroid related, because I have the same responses with folks who have normally functioning thyroids. Some people seem to be more weight loss resistant than others.
Weight loss for your mom isn’t going to come as easy for her as it does for you, for several reasons - she’s older, a woman, and although her thyroid hormone levels might be medicated to “normal” they may not be optimal and/or she may have some other hormone things happening that make dropping pounds tough. Has she had all of her other hormone levels checked too, and has she, or is she going through menopause?

Again, I’m not an expert in the thyroid stuff. I can likely offer more assistance in the diet arena if you want to elaborate on that at all.

4 Likes
13

I’ll have to double check, but as far as I know, her thyroid was the only hormone that seemed “wrong.” Again, I’d have to make sure of that.

She has not begun menopause yet.

A likely-TMI tidbit that I feel is possibly (?) pertinent is that she probably has roughly 1 bowel movement/week. And has been like that for most of her life. I remember her sister saying somehow that came up in a conversation when they were in their early teens. It being the only thing she was used to, my mom just thought that was normal, and was surprised that for most others it was a daily occurence. When she mentioned it to her doctor, he suggested Metamucil, but didn’t seem to think it absolutely necessary, as she doesn’t feel constipated or struggle to pass things, she just only feels the need to about once a week. I don’t know if that means she has an extremely “slow” system or something, or if that would have any effect on weight loss.

A few years back when she started trying to lose weight, she just started with small changes - near-daily walking, drinking more water, avoiding the worst foods, etc. Eventually she started doing some stength training, mostly bodyweight - pushups, assisted pullups, goblet squats, GHR’s, etc. Later on she did some weight lifting - squats, RDL’s, presses, etc. Her diet wasn’t perfect during this time, but she was, again, mostly avoiding the really bad stuff - really sugary stuff, fried stuff, etc, and eating, while if not a perfect amount, what seemed like a decent amount of protein and produce. I don’t think she ever tracked calories, as she was just trying to change habits first.

I know over time she felt like she was getting stronger, and thought possibly the lack of change on the scale was because she was building muscle. After a while, I hired her a nutritionist for a few months as a gift, who, if I remember correctly, basically had doing a protein shake with a banana, oats, and maybe eggs, or breakfast; ground turkey and asparagus for lunch; then chicken breast and brocolli for dinner. On certain days of the week she would sometimes have rice with lunch and dinner. Oh, and always a rice cake for dessert, haha. (Who the heck likes rice cakes? I think she usually skipped that.) And on Sundays, she was supposed to fast all day, then have a dinner consisting of a certain amount of calories. I think she almost always went with a salad with salmon from a restaurant she really likes.

She always felt full after those meals, never hungry. That feeling combined with not dropping any pounds led her to suggest that maybe it was too many calories. Her nutritionist didn’t seem to think that was the issue, and from what I remember, just told her to make sure she wasn’t taking bites of her kids’ food as she cooked it and to stick with the program. I think that was frustrating for her, but she stuck with the program and listened to the expert.

She lost some steam after that. She didn’t stop training, although there’s been some ups and downs like most people, and she still tries to at least not eat total crap, but I think she felt that after a few months of chicken breast and brocolli not working, then she just didn’t know what else to try.

Sorry if that was too long! Just wanted to share as much of the story as I could. This was all going on during the end of high school/beginning of college for me, so I was living at home and, being the “expert” in my household (thanks TNation!), we talked about it a lot. I’ve just been around for a lot of the ride.

14

This shouldn’t have any pull on weight loss. Does she do a good job of staying hydrated? That could help the slow transit time and if she’s never tried a probiotic, that might help too.

Have you ever tried the caramel ones? Some pretty tasty cardboard right there. Lol.

Did she not lose any weight on the diet that the nutritionist put together for her or was the weight loss just super slow?

Not knowing all her details, if I were to give her a baseline super simple plan just to start somewhere I’d probably start with something like:

Breakfast:
3-4 ounces lean protein or low fat/fat free dairy equivalent (cottage cheese, plain Greek yogurt)
1 serving fruit (1/2 cup equivalent) or 1 serving carbs (15 grams CHO)
1.5 fats (1 fat = 9 grams of fat)

Lunch/Dinner:
3-4 ounce lean protein
2-3 cups NON-starchy vegetables
1.5 fats
1 serving carbs - preferably vegetable based (sweet potato, potato, winter squash, beans, etc.)

Optional Snacks (up to 2/day)
2 ounces lean protein or dairy equivalent
1 cup non-starchy veggies or 1 serving fruit
.5 fats

*fats used in cooking count toward overall fat in the meal

If she’s open to it, have her try that for 2 weeks and track everything. Report back and we can tweak until we start getting some results!

1 Like
15

Great thread. Thank for compiling. Same old story that Joe Schmo doctors pretty
much know mostly nothing about mostly everything.

1 Like
16

Sorry for not replying, haven’t been posting much this past week.

The scale might’ve bounced around within a pound or two but that’s probably just the scale. No real weight loss, at any rate.

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to offer that up. I appreciate it (and everything else I’ve learned from your posts!). I ran it by her, and she said at this point in time, she’s not willing to commit 100% to something, and though she appreciates the offer, she doesn’t want to take up anyone’s time if she’s not also promising to fulfill her end of things. Again, we both appreciate the plan and the offer very much though.

1 Like