No love for alpha gpc. It gives me a good brain and energy boost and you dont build up a tolerance to it
Check the store. 2-3 alternatives there.
300-500 mg at a time seems like a lot. I usually drink a cup in the morning then do my pre workout (150 mg) before lifting and I’m yakked outta my gourd. How do you feel at 300+?
5 hour energy or one of those similar products. Works wonders for me if early WO or later in day and i am tired.
Cheap too.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
You could try Sulbutiamine + Guarana. Guarana does have caffeine in it but at the normal guarana amount used, it is about 75 or so, not too crazy. Also has other stimulatory properties.
Do you get your caffeine from coffee or just straight pills/powder?
Coffee has other stimulants in it other than caffeine, namely theophylline and theobromine. Theophylline is a non-selective PDE inhibitor resulting in a much longer-lived production of cAMP, and is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Theobromine can do the same but is also a vasodilator.
Coffee also has mild MAO-I effects from beta-carbolines norharman and harman. MAO is a target of many antidepressant and neuro-protective drugs. This is why coffee can have a bigger impact on one’s mood than just caffeine alone, because the inhibition of MAO prevents the breakdown of neurotransmitters and thus increases their availability (serotonin, dopamine, nor/epinephrine).[/quote]
Thanks. I get my caffeine from coffee but, recently read that one should not take in anti oxidants pre-workout, any truth?[/quote]
yeah, don’t do that… namely vitamin C, E, and CoQ10. There are plenty of studies showing they hamper the physiological adapations to training.[/quote]
So I hear. Not to major in the minors, but it would be great to know how long once should wait between training and antioxidant intake… I guess 5 hrs on either side could be enough . Of course this would be antioxidant specific in any case as they differ in terms of plasma saturation time
Purple Wraath is good and it doesn’t have caffeine. It is technically a stimulant free pre-workout but I’ve noticed very good energy using it.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
300-500 mg at a time seems like a lot. I usually drink a cup in the morning then do my pre workout (150 mg) before lifting and I’m yakked outta my gourd. How do you feel at 300+?
[/quote]
Honestly I have only felt “wired” a few times over the years but, I must have drank crazy amounts of coffee.
Even at these amounts I have little to no withdrawals. I get a slight headache for 1-2 hours and that is it. Even then I am not sure if it was the lack of caffeine or that I was out working early.
When I mix caffeine with Power Drive I feel awesome.
[quote]LiftingStrumpet wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]LiftingStrumpet wrote:
Do you want a stimulant, or do you want the effects of increased energy and focus? If the later is what you’re looking for, I’ve had success with Tyrosine, which is one of the active ingredients in Powerdrive. [/quote]
Yes, the latter.
I actually just got Power Drive. So, stacking it with caffeine/coffee?
I usually just mix cocoa powder with instant coffee.[/quote]
Sure, you could stack it with coffee or caffeine pills. I’ve found Tyrosine helps me with energy, but doesn’t give me any kind of buzz. It also doesn’t give me any kind of crash later. It’s a different kind of energy than caffeine so I think they would interact well for you.
For reference, I use Tyrosine during music performances that last about 4 hours total. During that same time, I usually drink about 24 ounces of Diet Coke.
[/quote]that made sense until all negated by the last two words …diet coke (filled with caffeine)
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
300-500 mg at a time seems like a lot. I usually drink a cup in the morning then do my pre workout (150 mg) before lifting and I’m yakked outta my gourd. How do you feel at 300+?
[/quote]
Honestly I have only felt “wired” a few times over the years but, I must have drank crazy amounts of coffee.
Even at these amounts I have little to no withdrawals. I get a slight headache for 1-2 hours and that is it. Even then I am not sure if it was the lack of caffeine or that I was out working early.
When I mix caffeine with Power Drive I feel awesome.[/quote]
Yep, there is definately synergy between tyrosine and caffeine, De Franco has been a big proponent of these two for ages now.
Slightly off topic, and hopefully I will be forgiven for saying that I don’t always do things by the book but another great synergies include:
Half a Brain Candy with 100 mg modafinil
Half a Brain Candy plus 20 mg ephedrine
1 cap HOT-ROX with 20 mg ephedrine
Bacopa plus rhodiola for chilling your beans out
Trying to cut out all the stims now though.
[quote]juverulez wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
You could try Sulbutiamine + Guarana. Guarana does have caffeine in it but at the normal guarana amount used, it is about 75 or so, not too crazy. Also has other stimulatory properties.
Do you get your caffeine from coffee or just straight pills/powder?
Coffee has other stimulants in it other than caffeine, namely theophylline and theobromine. Theophylline is a non-selective PDE inhibitor resulting in a much longer-lived production of cAMP, and is an adenosine receptor antagonist. Theobromine can do the same but is also a vasodilator.
Coffee also has mild MAO-I effects from beta-carbolines norharman and harman. MAO is a target of many antidepressant and neuro-protective drugs. This is why coffee can have a bigger impact on one’s mood than just caffeine alone, because the inhibition of MAO prevents the breakdown of neurotransmitters and thus increases their availability (serotonin, dopamine, nor/epinephrine).[/quote]
Thanks. I get my caffeine from coffee but, recently read that one should not take in anti oxidants pre-workout, any truth?[/quote]
yeah, don’t do that… namely vitamin C, E, and CoQ10. There are plenty of studies showing they hamper the physiological adapations to training.[/quote]
So I hear. Not to major in the minors, but it would be great to know how long once should wait between training and antioxidant intake… I guess 5 hrs on either side could be enough . Of course this would be antioxidant specific in any case as they differ in terms of plasma saturation time
[/quote]
for me, I take a combo of CoQ10, PQQ, and Pterostilbene in my first meal, about 1.5 hrs after lifting. Probably not ideal but whatever. All three are antioxidants.
On the other hand, I’ve stopped taking NAC completely.
I take my vitamin E tocopherols/tocotrienols at dinner.
Whoa glad I found this thread.
Juverulez you seem particularly aware of stims… why going off them now?
For me, EC gives me the best focus/intensity/aggression in gym. Unreal, but after a week I feel depleted and though weights go up, I feel smaller (almost as if body doesn’t absorb as much glycogen). Could be sleep or host of other factors, I’m not sure.
One bottle of Brain Candy is a great preworkout. Only trick is timing wise, you take it in the morning, but if you workout in afternoon/evening after work MIGHT have to “stim up” again.
I’ve also mixed Power Drive with Brain Candy, and Eph (25 mg bronkaid) which basically was EC but with more positive “mood”.
Alpha gpc increases my strength tremendously and when combined with a cup of coffee & Power Drive is potent enough to rival EC.
Whoa glad I found this thread.
Juverulez you seem particularly aware of stims… why going off them now?
For me, EC gives me the best focus/intensity/aggression in gym. Unreal, but after a week I feel depleted and though weights go up, I feel smaller (almost as if body doesn’t absorb as much glycogen). Could be sleep or host of other factors, I’m not sure.
One bottle of brain candy is a great preworkout. Only trick is timing wise, you take it in the morning, but if you workout in afternoon/evening after work MIGHT have to “stim up” again.
I’ve also mixed PowerDRive with Brain Candy, and Eph (25 mg bronkaid) which basically was EC but with more positive “mood”.
Alpha gpc increases my strength tremendously and when combined with a cup of coffee & Power Drive is potent enough to rival EC.
I don’t see the point of MOdafinil and other neuotropics (minus brain candy)? Might give you a cognitive edge but for workout performance?
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
Whoa glad I found this thread.
Juverulez you seem particularly aware of stims… why going off them now?
For me, EC gives me the best focus/intensity/aggression in gym. Unreal, but after a week I feel depleted and though weights go up, I feel smaller (almost as if body doesn’t absorb as much glycogen). Could be sleep or host of other factors, I’m not sure.
One bottle of Brain Candy is a great preworkout. Only trick is timing wise, you take it in the morning, but if you workout in afternoon/evening after work MIGHT have to “stim up” again.
I’ve also mixed Power Drive with Brain Candy, and Eph (25 mg bronkaid) which basically was EC but with more positive “mood”.
Alpha gpc increases my strength tremendously and when combined with a cup of coffee & Power Drive is potent enough to rival EC. [/quote]
Thought you were not supposed to mix Power Drive with Brain Candy.
I took the plunge on Indigo-3G and don’t want to have anything messing with its nutrient partitioning effects. Ephedrine, Caffeine, Nicotine have been known to affect insulin management. Not ideal in the context of weight loss, at least not year round. I am going to take a little stim break also to restore sensitivity to EC if I still need pre summer-very much like you I feel ‘depleted’ for a lack of better expression with prolonged use. Another thing is, despite having bags of energy, it is hard to channel it into something productive when you have adrenaline coming out of your ears haha. On top of that, I do public speaking for a living so any residual stim induced anxiety affects my performance.
Modafinil is great for increasing explosiveness in my experience as well as training motivation (just one more rep type of mentality). The half-life of 12 hours makes it pretty much impractical for most people. Not the sort of thing you’d want to use long term in any case, unless of course you are narcoleptic. Moda has been also used by sprinters and is a respectable cognitive enhancer in its own right.
Excited to try Alpha GPC in conjuction with Power Drive, thank you for sharing.
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
Whoa glad I found this thread.
Juverulez you seem particularly aware of stims… why going off them now?
For me, EC gives me the best focus/intensity/aggression in gym. Unreal, but after a week I feel depleted and though weights go up, I feel smaller (almost as if body doesn’t absorb as much glycogen). Could be sleep or host of other factors, I’m not sure.
One bottle of brain candy is a great preworkout. Only trick is timing wise, you take it in the morning, but if you workout in afternoon/evening after work MIGHT have to “stim up” again.
I’ve also mixed PowerDRive with Brain Candy, and Eph (25 mg bronkaid) which basically was EC but with more positive “mood”.
Alpha gpc increases my strength tremendously and when combined with a cup of coffee & Power Drive is potent enough to rival EC.
I don’t see the point of MOdafinil and other neuotropics (minus brain candy)? Might give you a cognitive edge but for workout performance? [/quote]
Not to nitpick but I think that you are not supossed to is a bit strong- how about you might not get synergetic effect? Experimentation is the mother of invention 
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
Whoa glad I found this thread.
Juverulez you seem particularly aware of stims… why going off them now?
For me, EC gives me the best focus/intensity/aggression in gym. Unreal, but after a week I feel depleted and though weights go up, I feel smaller (almost as if body doesn’t absorb as much glycogen). Could be sleep or host of other factors, I’m not sure.
One bottle of Brain Candy is a great preworkout. Only trick is timing wise, you take it in the morning, but if you workout in afternoon/evening after work MIGHT have to “stim up” again.
I’ve also mixed Power Drive with Brain Candy, and Eph (25 mg bronkaid) which basically was EC but with more positive “mood”.
Alpha gpc increases my strength tremendously and when combined with a cup of coffee & Power Drive is potent enough to rival EC. [/quote]
Thought you were not supposed to mix Power Drive with Brain Candy.[/quote]
Has anyone mentioned Rhodiola yet?
[quote]juverulez wrote:
Has anyone mentioned Rhodiola yet?[/quote]
can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything from it, personally.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]juverulez wrote:
Has anyone mentioned Rhodiola yet?[/quote]
can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything from it, personally.[/quote]
None at all? What about anti-stress/relaxation l/adaptogenic properties?
IMHO, 3gms of tyrosine/Power Drive IS the best there is for improving stress response
This thread got me thinking about how all this effort (and money) in finding the best stimulant stack to maximize physique gains is like experimenting with which is the fastest go-cart to take me cross country when the obvious fastest path is a jet plane (steroids).
And I don’t even know long term which is more dangerous. Ephedrine has been compared to be WORSE than moderate doses of T or whatever. So, I’m ignorant as never touched anything hormonal but it does get me thinking. Can stims impact our health more negatively than a proper “cycle” and if so, shouldn’t one’s focus be elsewere. I mean it’s not exactly “natural” either when you’re hopped up on DMAA, 300 mg caffeine or ephedrine right lol