Bush's Speech: A Critique

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]vroom wrote:
Instead of running to your thinking tree and brooding about possibilities - try matching them up with some probabilities. That means offering up a logical argument IN FAVOR of your position. Something you fail to do in almost every debate you enter.

Rainjack, you and I have different ideas of what we are trying to do with our time here on the boards.

You appear to be trying to be right all the time, to win something.

I’m not. Believe it or not, I’m usually trying to be a bit more constructive with my time. Getting someone to admit a possibility makes it a lot easier for them to listen to and discuss your own viewpoint. It allows a better mutual understanding – as I’m generally able to accept the possibility of the opposing viewpoint being valid, whether or not I agree with it.

Often it appears you have to bust through some poor logic and fixed mindsets before that can happen… especially with cheerleader types such as yourself.

You argue your way and I’ll argue mine, why do you get your panties in such a bunch over this stuff anyway?[/quote]

Maybe it’s time to accept that what you think you are trying to do isn’t working. Calling people names and dismissing their viewpoints based on you peception of who they are ,rather then what they say, is sophmoric at best and will rarely lead to anyone listening to what you have to say.

You also rarely ever admit to what you do stand for. You call Bush a moron but previously said your not anti-Bush. Stand up for something and stick by it. That’s why people criticize you so routinely.

Compare Bush to someone you know, yourself or someone you work with. Stick your head up over the cube and look around. See anyone who was a fighter pilot, governor of a state, leader of the free world, owned a pro baseball team, graduated from Harvard Business school? You may be jealous but he’s no moron.

Ask yourself this. How many threads have turned into you defending yourself and attacking others rather then “showing others possibilities”. It seems like your comments tend to kill more discussion then they further.

Maybe everyone else isn’t always wrong?

122

[quote]How about I just say–
this is as sad as your original post and allow you to get the last word which is your signature move.

Do you really think that you get anybody to think about something? Like they haven’t thopught of it before? Like you are some shining ray of information and intellect piercing your way through the muck and muddle of us commoners?
How many mindsets do you suppose you’ve altered with your sophmoric diatribes?
How many fallicies exposed?

Get over yourself and your self promotion. Pick a position and argue it–simple. You are only kidding yourself if you think you’re high-browwing anybody here.[/quote]

Make up your mind Assquatch, you can’t have it both ways.

If you pick on me for my style of argument I should be able to explain it in defense.

You don’t then get to claim any sort of self promotion. Where have I talked myself up? Where have I promoted myself instead of simply talked about issues on the boards?

As for the last word, this is a public forum, throw more crap in here if you want. You can’t simply withdraw and then bitch if someone else chooses to fire a round back at you. Stop being such a pussy.

Whether you like it or not, and I honestly don’t care, when I see incredibly stupid logic or fallacious arguments, I’m going to poke at them. Get used to it.

In return, I expect you to continue to argue against everything I say. I’m already used to that, but you don’t see me complaining about it or trying to coerce you to not respond by whining about the “last word” do you?

Respond or don’t, it’s up to you, not me.

123

[quote]rainjack wrote:
storey420 wrote:
I’d have to agree with you WMD. Austin is very forward thinking and progressive unlike wherever in Texas Rainjack seems to come from, you know “real Texas” yee haw and such

Progressive = Liberal elitist pricks.

But, just in case you’ve been asleep for the last 20 years. Texas has become increasingly Republican. It seems to me that Austin is the conglomeration of losers that refuse to change. From Reconstruction through the 1970’s Texas was democrat. We haven’t had a left winger hold that office since Ann “Poor George” Richards took advantage of a Clayton Williams faux paux.

Your brand of ‘progressive’ seems to be to pine away for the good old days, where the dems ran Austin, and everyone believed Molly Ivans. You can keep your “progressive” bullshit. The rest of the state is republican, now.
[/quote]

Wow an impressive display of tolerance and open mindedness once again from our representative of what the right thinks.
Here is something to chew on. You don’t know “my” brand of progressive and what I consider to be forward thinking, so please stop with the know it all shit. I’ve met “progressive” and “forward thinking” people from both parties in all parts of this great state. You sir are neither. You are a blowhard that should stick your small little hunk o land where everything republican is great and those stupid liberals are losing elections so everything is going to be great since us republicans know it all.
Fucking please.

What I love about Austin is the LACK of people like you who are really just judgemental turds that think that their myopic view of the land is what’s best.

124

Let me put on my Internet translator… Bzzzzt.

The problem with you vroom is that you don’t agree with me. Worse, you poke holes is my crappy arguments and poor logic and I don’t like that. Because of this I am running a personal vandetta against you and all you stand for. I’m ignoring the post where you stated your opinion and your reasoning for it, because I don’t have anything I could possibly say about it – in fact, it is so directly opposite to my worldview I can barely acknowledge it exists.

Bzzt.

Wow. That’s messed up!

125

[quote]Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
X, I’m not arguing that clinton didn’t have good intentions with human rights missions. I am stating that he unintentionally screwed up alot of things much like Bush has done.

The huge difference being, most of Clinton’s fuck ups were in light of caring too much about the lives of American forces. Bush’s seem to be in the opposite direction. [/quote]

More ignorant statements from the egotist.

126

Well, personally, I’d rather people would try to focus on the issues… but honestly, just about all political discussions involving proponents of left and right viewpoints get off track in these parts.

Perhaps right leaning folks are used to wishy washy leftists that roll over instead of stand up for themselves? Who knows. However, when you start berating those on the right for their tactics, I’ll be more willing to listen to any concerns you might have about mine.

Until then, get used to some heavy dissent.

127

[quote]vroom wrote:
Ask yourself this. How many threads have turned into you defending yourself and attacking others rather then “showing others possibilities”. It seems like your comments tend to kill more discussion then they further.

Well, personally, I’d rather people would try to focus on the issues… but honestly, just about all political discussions involving proponents of left and right viewpoints get off track in these parts.

Perhaps right leaning folks are used to wishy washy leftists that roll over instead of stand up for themselves? Who knows. However, when you start berating those on the right for their tactics, I’ll be more willing to listen to any concerns you might have about mine.

Until then, get used to some heavy dissent.[/quote]

That is what just about everyone is trying to tell you vroom. You dissent, heavily, over everything, whether you know anything about the topic or not. Since your job is apparently posting on T-Nation, it overwhelms any actual discussion from people who actually debate issues.

Keep in mind the purpose of this site is to sell supplements for a very fine company, not drive off potential customers thru relentless annoyance and “heavy dissent” to help them “see possibilities”.

128

Just about everyone?

Hmm, no, just about every right wingnut… half of which wouldn’t recognize a good debate (which includes representation from both sides) if it hit them on the head.

129

[quote]vroom wrote:
Just about everyone?

Hmm, no, just about every right wingnut… half of which wouldn’t recognize a good debate (which includes representation from both sides) if it hit them on the head.[/quote]

I thought we were cheerleaders?

Consider the possibility that all who have addressed your anti-social behavior might just have a point and that you aren’t omnipotent.

130

[quote]vroom wrote:
vroom, the problem is that you don’t debate. You argue both sides of everything depending on who you are arguing with. If I say Bush is great you say it is possible he is a moron. If some accuses of calling Bush a moron you tuck your tail between your legs and state you were merely suggesting it is a possibility he is a moron but have no proof in either direction. Pick a stance and argue it!

Let me put on my Internet translator… Bzzzzt.

The problem with you vroom is that you don’t agree with me. Worse, you poke holes is my crappy arguments and poor logic and I don’t like that. Because of this I am running a personal vandetta against you and all you stand for. I’m ignoring the post where you stated your opinion and your reasoning for it, because I don’t have anything I could possibly say about it – in fact, it is so directly opposite to my worldview I can barely acknowledge it exists.

Bzzt.

Wow. That’s messed up![/quote]

Nice job vroom. This speaks volume of your perceived intellect and debate skills. Unfortunately, very few would agree. This is evident by the breakdown of virtually every thread you enter.
I know the only possibility I’m contemplating is your phone line going down in winter.

131

[quote]hedo wrote:
vroom wrote:
Just about everyone?

Hmm, no, just about every right wingnut… half of which wouldn’t recognize a good debate (which includes representation from both sides) if it hit them on the head.

I thought we were cheerleaders?

Consider the possibility that all who have addressed your anti-social behavior might just have a point and that you aren’t omnipotent.

[/quote]

Hedo, for a former Army officer who faced enemy tanks and such you sound very whiny and threatened when it comes to Vroom. Your pals as well.

You guys sound like hurt little children mad because you can’t brow beat Vroom into either agreeing with you or silencing him.

Is that what you really want a nice little tea room where you can agree with and pat each other on the back and then threaten to take your toys and go home when someone doesn’t join the circle jerk?

Hedo, Vroom isn’t a T-82 don’t let him bother you so much. :slight_smile:

132

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Nice job vroom. This speaks volume of your perceived intellect and debate skills. Unfortunately, very few would agree. This is evident by the breakdown of virtually every thread you enter.
I know the only possibility I’m contemplating is your phone line going down in winter.[/quote]

In most of these threads, the breakdown is directly because of people willing to start fussing about why he poses certain questions instead of remaining on topic.

133

It’s entertaining to keep hearing about what Bush did or didn’t do. It’s right up there with criticizing Reagan. I would like to suggest Chomsky’s approach: he uses “Bush’s handlers” or “Reagan’s handlers”. This expression does have the merit of being more likely to be true.

134

[quote]Professor X wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
Nice job vroom. This speaks volume of your perceived intellect and debate skills. Unfortunately, very few would agree. This is evident by the breakdown of virtually every thread you enter.
I know the only possibility I’m contemplating is your phone line going down in winter.

In most of these threads, the breakdown is directly because of people willing to start fussing about why he poses certain questions instead of remaining on topic.[/quote]

If the questions were direct honest attempts at discussion, you would not see the breakdown. I could script the sequence of most instances. You’ve been around enough to know the script as well. If it is pro Bush or administration or for that matter anything he does not agree with, the “possibility” line comes out. Then the rebuttal. Then the name calling. Chaos.
Yet, his comeback is nobody is willing to debate or discuss. I mean really, there are some highly intelligent people on this board with their own expertise in a broad range of fields. Vroom is unwilling to learn or even accept that he can learn from anyone here.

135

You marginalize your worthless ramblings every time you open your mouth. And as for cheerleading - how can you begin to criticize others when it is impossible to tell where ProfX’s sphincter ends and your lips begin? I think they call that hypocrisy.

Progressive = Liberal elitist pricks.

I don’t know why I even bother with you. I guess for the same reason my dog like s to kill a bird and play with it all afternoon before it starts to smell of rotting flesh.

Vroom, is castigated for being the unholy, negative, anti-christ, and these gems from the dust bowl dud fly freely.

Hypocrisy to sickening lengths.

136

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
hedo wrote:
vroom wrote:
Just about everyone?

Hmm, no, just about every right wingnut… half of which wouldn’t recognize a good debate (which includes representation from both sides) if it hit them on the head.

I thought we were cheerleaders?

Consider the possibility that all who have addressed your anti-social behavior might just have a point and that you aren’t omnipotent.

Hedo, for a former Army officer who faced enemy tanks and such you sound very whiny and threatened when it comes to Vroom. Your pals as well.

You guys sound like hurt little children mad because you can’t brow beat Vroom into either agreeing with you or silencing him.

Is that what you really want a nice little tea room where you can agree with and pat each other on the back and then threaten to take your toys and go home when someone doesn’t join the circle jerk?

Hedo, Vroom isn’t a T-82 don’t let him bother you so much. :)[/quote]

Good point Elk. A T-72 or better is something to worry about.

Not looking for a tea room…just manners and civility.

Hate to see the site brought down. Think about why most people like and respect you and not vroom…that’s the difference.

137

Using rainjacks terms-BBer Dream Team= GW Bush-Dan Quayle!! Man wouldn’t that have given the stand up comics plenty of material

138

[quote]storey420 wrote:
You are a blowhard that should stick your small little hunk o land where everything republican is great and those stupid liberals are losing elections so everything is going to be great since us republicans know it all.
Fucking please. [/quote]

It’s not a ‘little hunk’, just so you know. And yes, a quintessential part of being a REAL TEXAN is what you call being a ‘blowhard’. I call it swagger, other’s call it pride. And you have none of the above - which just goes to show thatone is not a Texan simply because one has a Texas ZIP.

You have passed far more judgement on me than I have on you. I simply stated my opinion on what I thought about progressives. I also stated fact about the political climate in Texas. What is so offensive to you? My opinion? Or the truth?

Either way you have proven yourself to be a hate filled elitist prick. Or was that hate filled progressive?

139

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:

Vroom, is castigated for being the unholy, negative, anti-christ, and these gems from the dust bowl dud fly freely.

Hypocrisy to sickening lengths.[/quote]

No one has castigated him.

BTW - have you gotten anyone else fired at work lately?

140

Unless I’ve lost my way, this IS the politics forum is it not? This is where people throw insults at me on a daily basis, especially after decent post that asks questions that get ignored, isn’t it?

Anyway ladies, I think you’ll find, if you can stomach the thought, that I exemplify one of the characteristics of Bush that you applaud so much.

I STICK TO MY GUNS WHETHER OR NOT YOU LIKE IT!

Now, don’t try to tell me that this is not an oft applauded feature of Bush.

I guess maybe the difference is that people should only stick to their guns if they have a viewpoint that you agree with.

Damn. That has to suck.