Bush Tells New Orleans...

I’m not gonna force myself to read some of this chickenshit. Most exacuation warning are given with around 72-24 hours of notice. They are all short times. NOLA has 4 major interstates to get out of the city plus several highways. I-10 E and W, I55 and I 59. US90 is also a mjor highway. I-10 Eastbound was backed up in Mobile area up till the MS state line on Sunday for a vareity of reasons, notably the George Walla Tunnel can’t handle all that traffic at high speeds and backs up everyday.

Did you pay attention to how Grand Isle was evacuated? People were arrested there. I personally think it’s ridiculous and fuck them. If you’re dumb enough to stay on a barrier island, then so be it. But just know it’ll be a month or two till anyone heads down there.

The worst of the hurricane came around 8-12 in the morning on Monday, rain bands started coming on Sun afternoon (note: They were also passing over Cuba slightly earlier that day.) Prof X, you obviously know little about the situation other than what you have read or think you know. You don’t even know the major thoroughfares out of the city.

By the way, since you claim to be “from the area” what area is that? I’m pretty up-to-date on the Gulf Coast, what part are you from?

The easy step guide to saving lives in NO BEFORE the hurricane hit.

  1. 1000 buses (Thats a tremendous underestimation) from around the area. Where ever the fuck you can get them from. Thats 20,000+ seats minimum.

  2. Tell them “You’re gonna fucking die if you stay here. Leave with us now or you will fucking die.” Tell them just like that too.

  3. Only take the ones that want to go.

  4. There are areans all over the fucking place. Use them in a time of shelter and crisis.

  5. The ones that choose not to leave, they live with their decision. Then you come back and save the survivors after the dust settles.

EVERYONE knew the storm was a monster, what 2 days before shit hit the fan?

The ones that had the opportunity to leave but didnt are idiots and the ones that didnt have the means or could not leave, I feel sorry for them.

Where can you put them? There are gigantic stadiums within a 1/2 day drive. There are numerous colleges and universities within a 1/2 a day drive.

Somewhere along the lines someone didnt take it to seriously or they allowed it to happen. There was time for a forced government evacuation.

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Prof X, you obviously know little about the situation other than what you have read or think you know. You don’t even know the major thoroughfares out of the city. [/quote]

What? I wrote, “Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do believe I10 and I90 are the two major roads out of that city”. I didn’t say they were the ONLY roads out of the city. I am not from New Orleans but have driven past it on I12 at least 50 times now or more.

[quote]
By the way, since you claim to be “from the area” what area is that? I’m pretty up-to-date on the Gulf Coast, what part are you from?[/quote]

None of your business. I am stationed in this area and you don’t need to know where. Claim? Like I need to lie about where I live? Please.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:

The only caveat is, we have to wait until the President authorizes us to do so. The laws of the United States say that the military can’t just act in this fashion, we have to wait for the President to give us permission.

This is why you can’t rely on conspiracy theorists to get you goo information:

UPDATE: Lt. Commander Sean Kelly emails with a clarification:

USNORTHCOM was prepositioned for response to the hurricane, but as per the National Response Plan, we support the lead federal agency in disaster relief ? in this case, FEMA. The simple description of the process is the state requests federal assistance from FEMA which in turn may request assistance from the military upon approval by the president or Secretary of Defense. Having worked the hurricanes from last year as well as Dennis this year, we knew that FEMA would make requests of the military ? primarily in the areas of transportation, communications, logistics, and medicine. Thus we began staging such assets and waited for the storm to hit.

The biggest hurdles to responding to the storm were the storm itself ? couldn’t begin really helping until it passed ? and damage assessment ? figuring out which roads were passable, where communications and power were out, etc. Military helos began damage assessment and SAR on Tuesday. Thus we had permission to operate as soon as it was possible. We even brought in night SAR helos to continue the mission on Tuesday night.

The President and Secretary of Defense did authorize us to act right away and are not to blame on this end. Yes, we have to wait for authorization, but it was given in a timely manner.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_09/007054.php

Your inference - that Bush never gave the authorization because (fill in the blank with ludicrous conspiracy excuse, be it PNAC, Bush hates blacks, an international Jewish banking cartel, or weather-controlling space weaponry testing) - is false.

Whether the feds got it right or wrong on the response is a different question, but let’s stay firmly rooted in reality.[/quote]

Your telling ME to stay firmly rooted in reality as you fall victim to the ‘Jedi mind trick’.

I posted an interview (let me guess, you didn’t even listen to it) where the words came right out of the Lt Cdr’s mouth – now when the heat is on Bush for his slow response, the Lt Cdr Kelly suddenly realizes, oh wait, ‘do over’ I remembered it wrong - I meant Bush DID give us orders right away.

In fact, I recall Bush’s exact orders to our crew –

“Do not dilly-dally for the local government of LA has failed and the nation needs my guiding hand and unwavering leadership in this moment of crisis. I pray for the safety of everyone, especially the blacks, in this hour of need.”

Then - and he’s probably gonna get upset that I mention this cause’ he’s a pretty modest guy - he parachuted into the eye of the hurricane and with the help of God, managed to slow it down from a ‘Cat 5’ to a ‘Cat 3’ with his BARE HANDS. The cheer of the crew was deafening.

Unfortunately his homing beacon malfunctioned and he ended up being adrift in the Gulf for a few days. At the time he was finally spotted by our search team, he was playing solitaire on a make-shift raft he had fashioned out of four tiger sharks he had killed with his lucky Tom Mix pocket knife.

Understandably he appeared a little ‘punchy’ when he finally addressed the nation just a few hours after being picked up.

I apologize Mr. President, in light of the criticism directed toward you I just felt like the nation needed to know the truth.

Signed,
Ensign Sean Kelly

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Intellectual dishonesty abounds here.

…quote]

Truer words were never posted.

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:

…now when the heat is on Bush for his slow response, the Lt Cdr Kelly suddenly realizes, oh wait, ‘do over’ I remembered it wrong - I meant Bush DID give us orders right away.[/quote]

I see - so what could have been a honest clarification on the part of a soldier speaking to the media, you’ve instantly explained away what the soldier really meant for us all - cover for the neocons. This, despite the fact that you essentially just created this interpretation out of speculative thin air?

Further, you pit your word against the explanation of the Lt. Commander himself and expect me to believe you over him?

Thanks for a good laugh, JTF. The fact that every single situation in your mind represents some darker, more nefarious conspiracy - even a simple clarification that on its face was largelt apolitical - shows bad faith on your part and is truly representative of a sad, desperate life.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:

…now when the heat is on Bush for his slow response, the Lt Cdr Kelly suddenly realizes, oh wait, ‘do over’ I remembered it wrong - I meant Bush DID give us orders right away.

I see - so what could have been a honest clarification on the part of a soldier speaking to the media, you’ve instantly explained away what the soldier really meant for us all - cover for the neocons. This, despite the fact that you essentially just created this interpretation out of speculative thin air?

Further, you pit your word against the explanation of the Lt. Commander himself and expect me to believe you over him?

Thanks for a good laugh, JTF. The fact that every single situation in your mind represents some darker, more nefarious conspiracy - even a simple clarification that on its face was largelt apolitical - shows bad faith on your part and is truly representative of a sad, desperate life.

In fact, I recall Bush’s exact orders to our crew … (large tract of nonsense) …

[/quote]

And your so gullible, your happy to accept any explanation by the government as fact, no matter how inconceivable.

In order for you to sleep at night, you have to convince yourself that every government failure is a result of coincedence, red tape, bureaucracy, stupidity and incompetence - miraculously, this Don Knotts, Homer Simpson type relationship somehow always works to they’re advantage in the end - unlike real life.

Ex: 9/11 - nobody could have planned for or saw that coming. Nobody could have imagined using hijacked planes as weapons, was the excuse.

From there the “gullibility factor” breaks down into stages where you have to keep increasing your “gullibility tolerance” to shield yourself from the ugly truth as more and more facts come out:

-A memo in Bush’s grubby little hand one month earlier (again, while on vacation) “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

-FAA receives 52 warnings in the months leading up to 9/11
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13203-2005Feb10.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=486644

-Wargames that included simulated hijackings of planes crashing into buildings on the morning of 9/11
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm

http://www.911truth.org/readingroom/whole_document.php?article_id=92

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/19/norad.exercise/index.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

-FBI Knew Terrorists Were Using Flight Schools

-Some of the listed “hijackers” are still alive

-And of course the latest:
Three More Assert Pentagon Knew of 9/11 Ringleader
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090205N.shtml

I know, it just looks bad when you put it all together like that.

By now you have such a high tolerance for crapola, you’ll swallow the most ridiculous explanations from the government as fact and condemn any other argument as a “conspiracy theory”.

If you believe this, who looks more silly, me or you?

What Papers Does Michael Chertoff Read?
On Sunday’s “Meet the Press,” Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff told Tim Russert that one reason for the delay in rushing federal aid to the Gulf Coast was that “everyone” thought the crisis had passed when the storm left town: “I remember on Tuesday morning picking up newspapers and I saw headlines, ‘New Orleans Dodged The Bullet.’”

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054713

Chertoff: Katrina scenario did not exist
However, experts for years had warned of threat to New Orleans
WASHINGTON (CNN) – Defending the U.S. government’s response to Hurricane Katrina, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argued Saturday that government planners did not predict such a disaster ever could occur.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.chertoff/

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:

And your so gullible, your happy to accept any explanation by the government as fact, no matter how inconceivable.

In order for you to sleep at night, you have to convince yourself that every government failure is a result of coincedence, red tape, bureaucracy, stupidity and incompetence - miraculously, this Don Knotts, Homer Simpson type relationship somehow always works to they’re advantage in the end - unlike real life.

Ex: 9/11 - nobody could have planned for or saw that coming. Nobody could have imagined using hijacked planes as weapons, was the excuse.

From there the “gullibility factor” breaks down into stages where you have to keep increasing your “gullibility tolerance” to shield yourself from the ugly truth as more and more facts come out:

-A memo in Bush’s grubby little hand one month earlier (again, while on vacation) “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/

-FAA receives 52 warnings in the months leading up to 9/11
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13203-2005Feb10.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=486644

-Wargames that included simulated hijackings of planes crashing into buildings on the morning of 9/11
http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm

http://www.911truth.org/readingroom/whole_document.php?article_id=92

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/04/19/norad.exercise/index.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

-FBI Knew Terrorists Were Using Flight Schools

-Some of the listed “hijackers” are still alive

-And of course the latest:
Three More Assert Pentagon Knew of 9/11 Ringleader
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090205N.shtml

I know, it just looks bad when you put it all together like that.

By now you have such a high tolerance for crapola, you’ll swallow the most ridiculous explanations from the government as fact and condemn any other argument as a “conspiracy theory”.

If you believe this, who looks more silly, me or you? [/quote]
You do. Try reading the 9-11 commision report, or were they part of the conspiracy too? [quote]

What Papers Does Michael Chertoff Read?
On Sunday’s “Meet the Press,” Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff told Tim Russert that one reason for the delay in rushing federal aid to the Gulf Coast was that “everyone” thought the crisis had passed when the storm left town: “I remember on Tuesday morning picking up newspapers and I saw headlines, ‘New Orleans Dodged The Bullet.’”

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054713 [/quote]

It was an AP story on 8-29-05. Do a little research.[quote]

Chertoff: Katrina scenario did not exist
However, experts for years had warned of threat to New Orleans
WASHINGTON (CNN) – Defending the U.S. government’s response to Hurricane Katrina, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argued Saturday that government planners did not predict such a disaster ever could occur.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.chertoff/[/quote]

New Orleans gov’t knew about it, LA gov’t knew about it, and did less than nothing. Start there if you want to point fingers.

Please don’t get him started on 9-11 again. To paraphrase Doc Holladay in “Tombstone,” “I don’t think I could bear it.”

[quote]This is your usual abstract blathering. And one of the dumbest posts I have read on T-Nation. Since when do ‘conservatives’ think any government entity is beyond criticism?

Moreover, conveniently, you choose the gaseous pronoun ‘they’ - who is ‘they’? I allow for questions concerning the Bush adminstration’s actions in any context, and so do most of his supporters around here.

No, what you have is your fantasy stereotype of the ‘closed minded righties’ that you ascribe behavior that doesn’t actually exist. It is fun, though, right?[/quote]

Thunder, try to relax yourself.

I purposely tried to avoid mentioning conservatives and stuck with phraseology that would easily be applicable only to the cheerleaders around here.

The fact you go and take extra offense when I’m trying not to lambaste conservatives in general is just absurd.

Surely you have noticed that there are those who are blatant cheerleaders, or has that fact totally escaped you?

Speaking of one of the dumbest posts I’ve seen on T-Nation…

[quote]vroom wrote:

I purposely tried to avoid mentioning conservatives and stuck with phraseology that would easily be applicable only to the cheerleaders around here.[/quote]

Here is the problem, Vroom - you jump right in on a point when Pro X is accusing me of ‘not seeing the light no matter how many times he explains it’ - you even cite his text.

So, naturally, if Pro X was talking about me, then I am assuming you are including me in your ‘they’.

Which, by the way, I am not offended - but if you are referring to me in your post - which, by inference, it certainly looked that way - I’ll give a rebuttal.

Oh, no, it hasn’t escaped me - but your rant wasn’t exactly all-inclusive. Go back and re-read your post and see if you included condemnation of those who can’t possibly be rational because they want Bush to be a bad, bad man too much.

Right.

Thunder,

No worries, just a common issue around here of people jumping into a comment that doesn’t apply to them.

I know I’ve done it…

[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You are basically making excuses for the actions taken when the truth is, it should be plain as day why some people are noticing faults.

Honestly, do you not think it was the mayor of New Orleans, the Governor of LA, and the LA legislature that should have had a plan for this worst case senario? Why is this first and foremost a federal problem instead of a local problem?[/quote]

well its a little late to blame the local government. yea, they suck, but that is not the point anymore is it? This is a national issue, and as leader of the nation maybe Bush should step in here. its bad enough that we dont have the manpower in the US since he deployed them to Iraq to “git the terrorists” and find WMDs, i think a disaster that costs well into the hundreds of billions of dollars, cost many lives, and ruined many others deserves the attention of the president.

just my $0.02

[quote]mike08042 wrote:
how about these large numbers of ppl who died, take responsibility for their own lives instead of waiting for Daddy Bush to put the spoon to their mouths? People need brains, poor, broke? I dont care, if you were told to leave there would be no talk about any of this. Plain and simple.[/quote]

many did not have the means to pick up and leave just like that. no one really knew how bad the shit would hit the fan . if you were poor and you were not 100% certain that things would get bad would you leave what little posessions you owned to get stolen while everyone was evacuated? This was a disaster on a scale that is hard to immagine, so “Daddy Bush” probably had some role to play here.

great power comes with great responsibility. its part of Bush’s job to take the blame when he doesnt do enough. he f*cked up here people, i thinks a little blame is fair.