well then get the phat out of your eyes. haha.
Now that was pretty funny, lol
I guess the thing that is most silly to me is that the vets are the vets because they have time to post 50 times a day. So that qualifies them as experts?
I have learned a lot from T-Mag and the Forums and even spent a summer as a more frequent poster. Now I only have time to post once in a while and it’s only when I have time.
Why do I have less time? Reason being that I have 30 sessions per week plus my own training to deal with. With that experience behind me and the fact that the ‘vets’ have no other obligations but to ppost on the forum, why should I or even someone who I admire like Kelly Bagget be considered any less of a contributor?
So it’s Friday afternoon and I’ve taken 5 minutes to post this. Why? Because there’s less information than ever on the forum and more socializing than “Testosterone” was ever supposed to be about. And all that socializing happens with the vets. This forum is becoming a waste of time. And I’d rather be able to come here for info on Oatmeal and anti-nutrients than wether or not the unemployed think it’s important.
Bottom line, this Anon ‘dude’ made a good point.
Want me to screw off if it’s such a waste of time? Na, I feel like I actually have some constructive things to offer.
Dude.
Good points. i post all day long because i live one minute from my school and when i come home the computer is the first place i go. And when im writing a paper i take breaks every thirty minutes or so to check out the boards i frequent. I also posted alot in the last three weeks because i was out of school and there was nothing to do but eat and lift. Once i get a real job i wont be able to get online as much but i will still get on when i can. but i dont think you should get pissed at people who do have the time to post. Some people may work in front of a computer all day. that would make it really easy to post all day long. really doesnt matter though. as long as i squat 700, bench 400, and deadlift 600 on sept. 6, yall can do and say whatever you want.
Because there’s less information than ever on the forum and more socializing than “Testosterone” was ever supposed to be about. And all that socializing happens with the vets. This forum is becoming a waste of time.
I disagree Rob…and here’s why…
You are right though about the increase in “Social” activity, what would you expect after more than 2 years? Of course the dynamics of the interaction change, did you actually believe that it would remain a faceless, sterile transfer of information? That it has become a part of the forumites social fabric and “conversation” has evolved beyond the mindless pitter-patter of Parents milling about at a 7 years olds soccer game into the banter of close friends is no surprise. I suppose that if one were to feel like an “outsider” the “So what do you do?”, “Oh, that’s your son!” conversation is one that is easier to participate in than one which the other conversant’s are more comfortable but who’s fault is that? I don’t think that you can blame the forumites for being friends, for gathering in T-Cells whether in Calgary, DC, Oregon or Dallas or for developing real life relationships.
Can you?
As for there being less information, how much of that is just YOU becoming smarter and more knowledgeable and not finding as much useful information? Looking at the T/N forum there is much more action than the O/T (not nearly as funny though…) and I would be hard pressed to remember anyone who was NOT able to get assistance with a question or problem (take a look at the three Westside threads…+600 posts!..).
So yeah, while we wait for someone to help, the caped crusader/forumites at T-Mag spend their idle time joking around, waxing comedic and scratching our groins, so what? As long as those who NEED help get it, who cares what else is done?
I would also suggest that T.C, Shugsy and Timmy P are quite happy to see “their” merry band of idiots bond through the magazine and forum, developing relationships that go deeper than “What’s your max bench?”
Dude.
P.S
The rumour that Timmy P was arrested for crimes involving Ungulates, 14 inch pieces of plastic tubing, Industrial barrels of margarine, One Bea Arthur impersonator and Two midgets is inaccurate.
They prefer to be called “Little People”.
“Treasure your relationships, not your possessions”
~ Anthony J. D’Angelo
Okay, I really have to take exception to that bit about people being vets simply because they post a lot.
Got news for you: everyone could find the time to post quite a bit. I run a business, consult for another one, train very consistently, go out and have a pretty full social life, and read quite a bit. In my particular case, I do all this in Japan, which probably makes it a bit more time-consuming than doing the same thing in one’s native language/country. Not complaining, just stating the facts as they are.
Some of the other vets and frequent posters are family people (some of them single parents). Some are doctors. Some run their own businesses, or juggle both college and work.
Bottom Line: If you’re not posting a lot, then it’s 'cause you don’t feel like posting a lot, not because you “don’t have the time”. Sorry.
I also agree with a lot of what anon had to say in his subsequent posts, and I’ll take back what I said about his playing hit-n-run. Okay, you’re here, you’ve been here for a while, and you care about the board. So why aren’t you in here with the rest of us helping to direct newbies around?
See this is the crux of the matter for me. Every time someone comes on with this “I don’t like how the vets post their comments” or “the vets should be doing this instead of that”, it’s ALWAYS someone who just pops out of the woodwork, so to speak, and who no one ever knows. Maybe they’ve been lurking for a while, maybe not. But one thing’s for sure - they haven’t been contributing.
In anon’s case, he says that the Forum’s a great place to learn. Sure it is. Of course it is. And why is that? It’s mainly due to a relatively small number of people, some rotating, some staying around for a while (like the very highly respected Kelly Baggett), who donate their time and knowledge. That’s right: DONATE. You think that we don’t have other things that we could be doing? You’re wrong. You think that there’s some ego satisfaction in giving out advice for a long period of time to people who more than half the time don’t bother to even say thank you? You’re wrong again.
All I have to say is: if you think that any of us are doing this because we get an ego boost out of it, or for some other self-centered reason, give it a shot for six months or so. Try it yourself and see if you still feel that way. My bet is, you won’t.
Okay, rant basically over. I post a lot because I, too, love this board. I also feel that I have something to contribute, and I’d say that - given the number of PMs and so on that I receive - there are a fair number of others who feel the same way. I’m not looking for a medal here or anything. But guys, please. If you’re going to criticise someone, try walking a mile in his shoes before you sound off about how he conducts himself.
Funny thing is two years ago when I found T-mag, I wrote this same post. Really it was almost Identical. Char said pretty much the same thing to me, he was right then and He’s right now…
char - Rob will get back to you when he has the time. 
Good points on both sides. I’ll have to agree that at least most people could post quite a bit if they chose to. I can post pretty much all I want as I do, in fact, work in front of a computer all day.
This post is just getting way off the mark from where it was originally aimed. It seems some people are TRYING to make me sound combative or defensive. I never once said anything about other peoples time or that they dont have other things to do in their life. I didnt say that I think anyone makes fun of someone for what theyre talking about just for shits and grins or an ego boost here. I dont care what reason what they do it for because the point is there is no good reason and thats what this is about. It just shouldnt be done.
I never said anything about nor do I agree in any way that the number of posts someone has made makes that person a vet or makes them an expert on anything. I personally have times that I could sit here and probably post 100 times a day. Would that make me smarter all of the sudden? Would I be qualified to give anyone advice any better than others on this board? Nope. I wholeheartedly agree with Rob though that plenty of people who dont post very often possess a wealth of knowledge that others on this board will never come close to.
You Char say that you post a lot because you love this board. Thats really cool. This is not sarcastic and Im honestly glad you feel that way. But does that mean others who might not post as much dont care about the board? Im kind of starting to feel a double standard creeping up somewhere here. I dont see where the logic of the fact that someone posts a lot is the only indication that they love this board or who have a true feel for what its really like. This board is something different for everybody. Some just read and learn, some post a lot and dont really try to learn a damn thing. And yet some actually do both.
You tell me to give it a shot for six months or so, but give what a shot? Ive been here for four years and whether Ive donated around here or not Ive still been here reading about every post that all of the ?regulars? have and as I said before Ive seen all of the same ?mass? and ?ripped? posts that all of you have. Im equally annoyed by the fact that so many of the people who come in dont read the vast wealth of information thats available before asking those questions or others like it over and over. I could have just as easily responded with the arrogant remarks that those people receive so often. Have I wanted to? Hell yeah, lots of times. But I didnt and thats the real point here because no one really deserves that. Whether I start donating or not that will still be something that I will never do. I have walked a mile in your guys shoes, many, many miles whether you saw me standing there next to you or not.
So yeah Ive got all this time on my hands. Why dont I post more often? Because I just didnt feel the need to. For a long time I felt like the forum had plenty of activity and that most were getting the help they seeked. But with Biotest growing the way it is and T-mag being exposed to SO many more people now, the newbie onslaught has seemed to grow exponentially and things seemed like they were starting to slide big time. That brings us around to exactly why I started this thread.
Could I be helping out newbies more than I do? Yes and now that the gauntlet has been laid down Im going to make an effort to do it more often. And maybe I will maybe I wont. But I still feel that Im entitled to have strong feelings about the matter, whether others here listen to me or not. So yeah I guess Im here now and ?I aint goin nowurr?
P.S. Char you are the first person I have addressed in any of my posts besides Cake but I hope you do not take it the wrong way. This is in no way an attack or ?shot? at you. Im just trying to make sense of some things around here and this is supposed to be constructive. If I get out of line tell me. I have read many of your posts for a long time and I know you are well-respected around here and with me as well.
I’ll always put quality over quantity, and frankly there’s been an abundance of crappy posts that add nothing to the threads in question coming from the “vets”.
Anon has a point, and so has Rob
I’ve said this before, but sometimes you deserve to get flamed. For example, when Sally From The Valley claimed that flaxseeds contain no EFA’s, people disagreed with her. Then she got an attitude and started attacking vets. If you say stupid shit, expect to get put in your place.
That being said, I’ve been on the receiving end of some personal attacks on my character that I felt were unwarranted. But like Goldberg said in his DP thread, if you take everything people say on an internet forum to heart, you have some insecurity issues. I realize that the people who are posting here don’t really know me, so I take things for what they are. If someone comes down hard on you, you have two options: A)get pissed off and respond with something like “fuck off you shit-faced cockmaster” or B)address the issue maturely by taking into account what the person said, consider the possibility that you’re wrong, and defend yourself if you feel strongly about what you’re saying. There are always going to be people who try to stir up trouble by saying things to get under your skin. You can either ignore them or try to see things from their perspective. In my case a few people were a little overzealous in their assertions, but this was only because the vast majority was on the other side of the fence. After the smoke cleared, I realized that these people were just trying to get a point across. They were trying to get me to examine my own behavior and it worked. I realized that I was acting out of character and doing some boneheaded things, and the things people were saying were based on my actions. As soon as I acknowledged this, they backed off and admitted that they may have gotten a little carried away by judging me as a person (telling me to quit med school because I’m an idiot and a loser) based on a few isolated incidents that I shared with the forum. I was pushed to my limit in my personal life and had to get my hands a little dirty, but you live and learn. Isn’t that what we’re here for?
My point is, if you get flamed, deal with it. You probably had it coming, and if you feel like you didn’t then stick up for yourself in a mature manner. More often than not people will respect you even more for being rational and not resorting to name calling. Don’t be a lurker if you have a question that you feel has been unanswered by the search engine. Strap on a set. There are many people here with years of training and life experience, so take advantage.
As for the off topic forum, a great resource for someone like myself whose life is a fucking soap opera. Sometimes your family and friends only tell you what you want to hear. It’s good to get unbiased input about hairy situations, and if nothing else it provides entertainment in a “damn I’m glad I’m not that dude” kind of way. My friends always look forward to my latest story, so I guess I’m that guy. Whatever, weird shit just happens to me. And since I’ve had so much free time lately due to an injury and break from school, maybe I’ve been spending a little too much time airing my dirty laundry. My bad. I’ll try to behave myself in the future.
Scrub,
I wasn’t talking about getting flamed, in case you thought so. What I was talking about is people having a discussion and a bunch of “vets” highjacking a thread with comments of dubious humoristic quality which end up distracting whoever is interested in the topic.
What’s the point? Not interested? Then stay away from it. Like Anon said, it’s like if there were a “vets” elite that gets to decide what’s cool and what’s not and then proceeds to sabotage the threads they disaprove.
Or then again, maybe it’s just one more of my conspiracy theories…
I couldn’t care less about the insults, but I’ll tell you this much, all the sarcasm and ironies scare a lot of newbies away from the boards, and this board is one of the worst I have seen when it comes to receiving those who are just starting.
Anon - I believe char was trying to get you to HELP people on this site for 6 months, rather than just post blindly. Everyone and anyone can post anywhere, but not everyone can dole out good advice everywhere.
Honestly, when I first came here, I stuck to the O/T forum, because I was clueless. The more I started to learn, the more I started to post in the T/N forum. I felt better and better about helping people out all the time. It truly does feel good to spread the wealth of knowledge from here and from me. Give it a shot.
Good posts from several people. I’m really (and I mean really) busy today, but I’ll get back to this thread tomorrow.
Till then…
Char, Restless, Anon, and others all made good points. I never wanted to give anyone the impression that I held myself higher than others because I’m ‘busy’. In fact I have no doubt that there are more frequent posters who have less time in the day.
Even re-reading my post, I realize frusteration got the better of me and my point was lost. That said, I feel like I could post more but because there’s so much more BS to sift through and then actual posts on topic, that I usually click ‘close’ or head to another site instead.
So a more productive way of restating myself would be that I feel like I (and others) could be much more productive and helpful on the boards here if it weren’t for all of the other ‘off topic’ banter in each post.
Bottom line, my comments were never aimed at any one ‘vet’ in particular. If that were the case, then I would have PM’ed them. I do apologize for my point getting lost in an angry post though.
I think a lot of us have said our peice. Hopefully we can lay this to rest. I still do think there is truth to the original post. I never look to make enemies either. I hope we can all still hold hands like Goldberg suggested.
Anyone notice how that Diesel-dude disappeared from the thread after he had been demonstrated he can’t tell the difference between the concepts “type” and “dosage”?
To me it comes down to this:
The “vets” are always right. Even if they’re conduct and manners are wrong and they don’t know much about anything, they’re ALWAYS right.
The “vets” are entitled to disrespect, insult, use sarcasm, to humiliate but a newbie doesn’t get to do this or he’ll be an asshole.
Anon offered some of you, and possibly me also, the opportunity to look upon your conduct and possibly improve it but again, admiting would be the first step and nothing can be done without it.
Okay, to respond at some length:
First, to anon: As someone else pointed out, I was talking about actually helping out by giving advice, not just reading. Think about what you said: “I wholeheartedly agree with Rob though that plenty of people who dont post very often possess a wealth of knowledge that others on this board will never come close to”
I agree. But you know what? All those super-knowledgeable guys out there who don’t post? They mean nothing on this board. Why? Because they don’t post!
If you can’t see the point here…well, there’s nothing more I can say.
You also wrote: “I don’t see where the logic of the fact that someone posts a lot is the only indication that they love this board or who have a true feel for what its really like. This board is something different for everybody. Some just read and learn, some post a lot and dont really try to learn a damn thing. And yet some actually do both.”
Point taken about posting being irrelevant about how one feels about this board. But again, it’s the people who contribute good information who make the board what it is. Take away the vets, and what do you have? Not a whole lot. After all, it’s not like Biotest pays a bunch of knowlegeable people to sit around here answering questions.
Furthermore, what information a newbie does get will, without vets, be hard to disentangle. Person A says this, person B says that. Who’s right? Well, with the way things are now, after a certain number of years, we basically know who’s who on this board. Doesn’t mean that someone like Thunder or Tampa Terry can’t come on and be welcomed. They know their stuff, and are great additions. But as it is now, when a newbie posts, let’s say he gets two answers. A vet says A, someone else (who’s new) says not-A. Hopefully, a whole bunch of people will log on and say something to the effect of “Hey, listen to the vet. He knows what he’s talking about.” And people say this maybe because they have the same knowledge, or maybe just because they’ve seen this guy (or gal) posting for a while and know that they generally don’t blow smoke.
So yes, veterancy has its perks, so to speak. But as for there being some sort of exclusive club? No. Anyone who bothers to contribute on a regular basis and has good info is welcome.
If you don’t contribute, though, then what can I say? I think that it’s a bit naive to think that you’ll be taken with as much seriousness as someone who does. And I think that criticism from such a source will probably be met with less acceptance than it might otherwise.
I hope that none of this is construed as a personal attack. It’s not meant that way.
To Rob: didn’t think that you were trying to put yourself above us. Just trying to make the point that most everyone does, in fact, have time to post. That’s all.
To Restless: I disagree that the vets are “always right”. I admit that when someone like Marc McDougal posts something that I think is wrong, I’ll be much more circumspect in my comments than if it’s some newbie. And maybe that’s a bad thing. On the other hand, Marc has demonstrated on many occasions (again, there’s that posting thing…) that he knows his shit, and so it gives me pause. I would imagine that most of the other vets feel much the same way. And there are plenty of instances where we’ve disagreed with each other. Just look at the stretching thread on the DP for one very recent example.
As for the others’ points about not being sarcastic or flaming a newbie, I’ve answered this issue at some length on a recent thread by Mike Friedman. There are good reasons (which I’m not going to bother to type out again here) to flame a stupid question or comment. I know its not “nice”, but I really do think its necessary. Please see that thread for my reasons, if you’re interested.
2 more for the century, well one more now.
Oh hell, I’ll make it an even hundred.
Might want to check out this link. Same shit, different day…