Bullfighting & Fox Hunting Bans

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
82

I’m on the fence about this one.

I know Hemingway was huge on the bullfights, and he certainly had a talent for romanticizing them, but I’ve heard that they’ve taken to practices that really stack the deck in favor of the bullfighter - i.e. cutting the bulls ankle tendons and what not or doing other shit to ensure that the matador wins.

That’s fucked up.

And that sport has been falling off for some time. Not nearly what it used to be… I can almost understand that one.

I still would not ban it, I don’t think, if I had the choice, but I also would not likely watch it.

Banning fox hunting is just goofy, unless there’s some issue with a dwindling population.

And for the record I am not a hunter and don’t want to be - I probably would not shoot a deer if I could help it. I am, however, a fisherman.

83

Fox hunting in it’s current form does not predate the Romans. The first recorded fox hunts with hounds was in the 16th Century as a means of pest control.

A lot of opposition is class based. It is mainly practiced by the upper middle class that live in the countryside.

As for it being a part of British culture, it is hardly a major part. I was born and raised in England and lived there until I was 21. I never went on a hunt, never saw a hunt, never knew anyone that went on a hunt, and never knew anyone that ever saw one.

I have no problems with hunting in general. One guy with a gun/rifle/bow against an animal that he has tracked an followed seems like a pretty fair fight to me. Foxing hunting, in my opinion is different. It’s a pack of hounds, a load of people on horses, and loads of follower on foot. Against a fox. Doesn’t seem to be in keeping with the spirit of hunting to be honest.

86

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
Fox hunting in it’s current form does not predate the Romans. The first recorded fox hunts with hounds was in the 16th Century as a means of pest control.

A lot of opposition is class based. It is mainly practiced by the upper middle class that live in the countryside.

As for it being a part of British culture, it is hardly a major part. I was born and raised in England and lived there until I was 21. I never went on a hunt, never saw a hunt, never knew anyone that went on a hunt, and never knew anyone that ever saw one.

I have no problems with hunting in general. One guy with a gun/rifle/bow against an animal that he has tracked an followed seems like a pretty fair fight to me. Foxing hunting, in my opinion is different. It’s a pack of hounds, a load of people on horses, and loads of follower on foot. Against a fox. Doesn’t seem to be in keeping with the spirit of hunting to be honest.

[/quote]

And that’s your subjective opinion. You’re entitled to it. Don’t hunt foxes.

Someone else, they rich or poor, might have a different one.

So you do your thing; they do theirs. Why do the folks that don’t like it want to stop the ones that do? The ones that do surely don’t try to enforce that you take up the sport. Why must those like you insist they cease?[/quote]

I agree with you to be honest. I don’t care enough about it to want to see it banned. I guess I just don’t get the attraction. And the whole “tradition” argument could be applied to so many different things that I don’t consider in valid.

As I said, I don’t hunt. However, I can understand the appeal. Fox hunting just doesn’t look to me to have the same challenge that one would get from hunting in the conventional sense.

To all those that are against the banning of fox hunting, do you do any form of hunting? Would any of you be interested in trying it? And if so, for what reasons?

88

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

sooner or later all forms of sport hunting will be banned. it started with the banning of killing whales it has moved to many other species. its not going to stop and thank god for that. [/quote]

The more I read from this fool, I think it is some 18 year old twilight obsessed female.

seriously, just because you live in a city and are sheltered from reality, doesn’t mean other people don’t actually hunt to eat or feed others.

Animals are food get over it. [/quote]

No, hunters use that their pitiful excuse to kill animals. “to feed their families” thats total crap. why not go to the grocery store and get them some food thats actually good for them. Oh, and i hate Twilight. My point is, why are animals food and humans aren’t. why do we get to decide that animals are food. who are we to decide that. I decided that all hunters are cowards and should all die a painful death. [/quote]

Then come get some.

And where the hell do you think the food at the grocery store comes from.

Rather than waste money, I raise my own food and shoot the varmint deer that try to eat my crops. I also raise pigs, chickens and cattle to slaughter; all pastured organic meat. Better than anything you can get in a grocery store. And the fact you say venison is not better than meat at a grocery store only further perpetuates how ignorant, in fact you are to the truth.

Like I said have fun trying to kill the guy that put your brains through the back of your skull at 1000 meters (by that I mean a skilled hunter)

Owe in PA we donate some extra meat to food shelters, what do you do for society you pathetic excuse for keyboard warrior.

89

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
MUST.STAY.AWAY.FROM.THIS.THREAD.

KRYPTONITE[/quote]

Oh come now BG…YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!![/quote]

I do. But it’s a fool’s errand. And we have a notorious troll here doing nothing but pushing buttons with fifth grade girl logic.

The AR agenda is a slippery slope and hypocritical unless you abstain from ALL animal products.

And those that support and oppose AR will not reconcile. Ever.

Either animals have rights or they do not. I say they do not because I refuse to step one foot on that slippery slope whilst I prepare my steak for dinner and thread the coach leather belt (that matches the suede shoes) through my pants.

As for bullfighting, meh. I’m not sure it’s a sporting endeavor. If it’s sporting, and not unnecessarily cruel, I say permit it. Fox hunting, like most hunting, can be performed in a sporting manner. [/quote]

Why do they call it bull fighting, it is not two bulls fighting to the death or until one curs. All the while enjoying every second of the competition.

91

[quote]ironcross wrote:
As always, I think the degree of regulation is more important than “yes” regulation or “no” regulation.

For example, if someone is hunting an over-populated animal, like a wild pig in America or deer in certain regions, excellent. Why stop them?

If they use the meat they kill from an animal that had a free life with a fairly good diet before it was killed, that’s better than the mass cultivation of animals in feed lots. The family saves money on meat and eats better at the same time.

On the other hand, if the animal killed is nearly or is endangered, the entire ecosystem is that much closer to ruined for everyone. If the person killing also doesn’t eat the meat, what a fucking waste of life. At least take it home and give it to someone with less than you.

As for bullfighting, I really can’t make a good argument for torture. My logic skills don’t cover “well it’s tradition!” On that note, if you hunt, don’t use a fucking bow and arrow. Learn to shoot a gun and do it well.[/quote]

You don’t hunt fox for the meat, you hunt them so they don’t kill your chickens.

Many animals kill for sport, look at dogs, both wild and domestic, cats. I mean we are no better so shouldn’t we display the same behaviors. To clarify the last part is not directed towards you specifically.

92

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

…I decided that all hunters are cowards and should all die a painful death…

[/quote]

Speaking of cowards, where’s your pics? Yeah, the pics that show your massive, awesome vegetarian built body?

BTW, if I find out you ate one can of tuna or a chicken breast or a hamburger or a wore a leather belt and/or shoes on your way to the top of the physique building world of Massachusetts I’m going to make sure you die a “painful (internet) death.”[/quote]

LOL…RV produces such epic bullshit, all the while pretending that folks who ask for pics to back up his short bus claims…do not exist.

93

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Never said ‘all.’ But I think the fact that you and roguevampire - the only two people who expressed approval of the bans, both expressed contempt for human life. Not the first time I’ve had responses like that from “animal rights” activists either.[/quote]

  1. I’m Spanish, this is part of my “culture”, so it’s certainly much closer to me than it is to you or him. For you it may just to be “man against animal” or even similar to hunting.
  2. Me? Animal right activist? Your magical ball is malfunctioning.
  3. Corridas are supposed to be art and sport. If we consider it a sport and a fight to death, I’m supporting the bull. Nothing to do with “contempt for human life”.
  4. There’s a big link between catholic people, bull fighting, right wing and Franco. It doesn’t mean that any who take part on that is a Franco supporter, but Patria, Familia y Dios is still the motto of many.
  5. I said “culture” above, because people outside Spain keep insisting me about them. I’m from Balearic Islands and stuff like Flamenco or Corridas are not part of my culture.
    [/quote]

Disdain for human life? absolutely not. But I realize that humans are the most vial, disgusting, violent creatures to ever live on this planet. Most by nature, are all assholes. Not all people, just alot of humans are. I don’t think animals should be held above humans, just on a level playing field. [/quote]

okay then. so you realize that from insect to higher animals, they all hunt and kill another species for survival right? it’s called the FOOD CHAIN and it’s NATURAL and INSTINCTUAL.

94

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
MUST.STAY.AWAY.FROM.THIS.THREAD.

KRYPTONITE[/quote]

Oh come now BG…YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!![/quote]

I do. But it’s a fool’s errand. And we have a notorious troll here doing nothing but pushing buttons with fifth grade girl logic.

The AR agenda is a slippery slope and hypocritical unless you abstain from ALL animal products.

And those that support and oppose AR will not reconcile. Ever.

Either animals have rights or they do not. I say they do not because I refuse to step one foot on that slippery slope whilst I prepare my steak for dinner and thread the coach leather belt (that matches the suede shoes) through my pants.

As for bullfighting, meh. I’m not sure it’s a sporting endeavor. If it’s sporting, and not unnecessarily cruel, I say permit it. Fox hunting, like most hunting, can be performed in a sporting manner. [/quote]

Why do they call it bull fighting, it is not two bulls fighting to the death or until one curs. All the while enjoying every second of the competition.
[/quote]

it’s why I said meh. I don’t see it as a sporting endeavor.

95

so here is how I hunt fox (and coyote), I shoot a rabbit, cut it open, cut the bladder to let the urine out over the carcass. I through it in the middle of a field not near chickens or piglets near dusk. and weight with my rifle.

Or if they come near my property on their own, which they really don’t anymore, I open the door and let the dogs have them.

I usually only bait if other neighbors are having issues. alot of them are older and just have a few chickens for eggs, can’t really do it themselves anymore.

96

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The answer is…there IS no (fucking) difference. Even when compared to bullfighting.

Hooking a tuna/marlin/sailfish/bream/catfish/bass and then “playing it” on the end of a line, reeling it in, gaffing it, pulling it on board, and them clubbing it to death while it flops around in bottom of boat…aint no (fucking) difference from competing with a bull in a ring.

In fact, it, bullfighting, is far more “sporting” when you think about it.[/quote]

this is absolutely true.

it’s why i said early on that the whole “debate” is rife with slippery slopes.

I think the whole AR thing is absurd. How magnanimous and pompous of us to think we’re so fucking special that we shouldn’t kill animals to eat all the while the ENTIRE biology of the planet does this very thing. From fish in the sea, to insects to birds to mammals, to reptiles and so forth - EVERY living thing on the planet is a part of the FOOD CHAIN. Fish kill. Insects kills. Mammals kill. Predation is part of the biology of the planet.

Yet here some disillusioned and grandiose humans (thinking they are more evolved b/c their delicate sensibilities are insulted by the thought of killing animals, while making the intellectual blunder of anthropomorphic arguments and ideology) sit, thinking they are outside that…and worse, thinking everyone else should feel the same way.

97

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
so here is how I hunt fox (and coyote), I shoot a rabbit, cut it open, cut the bladder to let the urine out over the carcass. I through it in the middle of a field not near chickens or piglets near dusk. and weight with my rifle.

Or if they come near my property on their own, which they really don’t anymore, I open the door and let the dogs have them.

I usually only bait if other neighbors are having issues. alot of them are older and just have a few chickens for eggs, can’t really do it themselves anymore. [/quote]

I just grab a patterdale and go to where they (fox) fucking live.

And if we had coyote here, I’d cut loose one of my pitbulls.

Problem solved.

99

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Ha, TBG got sucked in here.[/quote]

I told him he wanted to.

100

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
so here is how I hunt fox (and coyote), I shoot a rabbit, cut it open, cut the bladder to let the urine out over the carcass. I through it in the middle of a field not near chickens or piglets near dusk. and weight with my rifle.

Or if they come near my property on their own, which they really don’t anymore, I open the door and let the dogs have them.

I usually only bait if other neighbors are having issues. alot of them are older and just have a few chickens for eggs, can’t really do it themselves anymore. [/quote]

I just grab a patterdale and go to where they (fox) fucking live.

And if we had coyote here, I’d cut loose one of my pitbulls.

Problem solved. [/quote]

For some reason, they generally don’t come on my property unless I lure them now. Could be from the last time my white face rednose tried to dye the rest of skin red and didn’t realize coyote blood just wouldn’t do it.

plus I like to use my toys once in a while.