Bullfighting & Fox Hunting Bans

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
221

[quote]ironcross wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]ironcross wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[/quote]

Some of this seems contradictory to me. For instance, you say:

"“Cruelty” in these instances are truly in the eye of the beholder. From just a cultural perspective, I assure you the latin countries certainly do not feel they are being cruel to the gamecocks. And I can tell you that you cannot “force” two dogs to fight (no matter what nonsense you read about the practice). I hunt wild hog with dogs. It’s legal. But do you think it’s a big leap for someone that abhors dog fighting to see much difference between two dogs doing battle and a dog doing battle with a hog? Slippery slope. "

but then you jump into:

“No matter what side of the bloodsport argument you fall upon, I think we can all agree that there do exist sick bastards that DO TORTURE animals and/or otherwise neglect them. I think there is something truly wrong with those people. I don’t think there is something wrong with the men or women that would pit two gamecocks against each other any more than I think there is something wrong with someone that would sit in a tree all day long for a chance to shoot bambi. :)”

If animals have no inherent rights, what’s wrong with torturing them in any way?[/quote]

You’re equating bloodsport with “torture” when in fact the only two animals I’m aware that are “pitted” against each other with any consistency and by any rules are pitbulls and gamecocks and I can assure you that both animals are willing and eager participants.

There is nothing contradictory about what I said. I also qualified that “cruelty is in the eye of the beholder” and further qualified that such is often based on one’s culture or personal sensibilities.
[/quote]

My point wasn’t that bloodsport was torture, but that you have a clear idea of what torture toward animals is and you strongly are convinced that your idea of torture should never be allowed. You said that the people who do it are clearly sick and should be treated to overcome their sickeness. If they don’t want this treatment because they don’t feel that animals have rights and are not convinced that what they’re doing is wrong, you are in effect going to have to convince them otherwise.

I can beat a tree all day and no one is going to get mad if it’s my own tree. I’m sure you wouldn’t bat an eye if I trapped a spider and let it die on the sticky film. What makes dogs deserving of anything better? [/quote]

I’m not sure we’re understanding each other. I did not set forth an argument that dogs do deserve better. I took the position from the beginning that there is no moral or logical position for animal rights that is not slippery slope, hypocritical or contrary to biology.

Where we may have gotten off track is my passing mention of people that are truly ill that torture animals out of mental illness or instability. I don’t think that can be ignored any more than you can ignore someone walking around ranting and raving with his clothes off; both need help - not jail.

222

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]ironcross wrote:

I can beat a tree all day and no one is going to get mad if it’s my own tree. I’m sure you wouldn’t bat an eye if I trapped a spider and let it die on the sticky film. What makes dogs deserving of anything better? [/quote]

A dog is a highly intelligent animal capable of tracking, chasing, holding, flushing, retrieving and pointing game. Working dogs provide transport as sled dogs, herd sheep and cattle, search and rescue, lead the blind, detect drugs and explosives etc These attributes make a dog vastly more valuable than a spider. Check.[/quote]

Stop with the pictures. I already deconstructed your weak argument.

A dog’s utility (to you) is higher than a spider.

Property.

Check.

223

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

How is that ‘end of story?’ You paid for someone else to kill the animal. That makes your point bullshit and makes you a hypocrite. If you must troll at least make it funny.[/quote]

I’m not perfect. yes, i have eaten meat. but like I said, I rarely if ever do eat it. I’m not making excuses. People can have beliefs and sometimes they are hypocrits, but i still feel how i do, sometimes when your in a supermarket or at a cookout, you sometimes forget it was once a living creature. [/quote]

Well allow me to remind you:

If you consume meat or contribute to the economy of using animal products (leather, hides, fur, etc.) you ARE a hypocrite. Now, as you put your shoes or belt on this morning, please do not forget that not only are you a troll of the first magnitude (or the poster boy for “meathead”), you are a serial hypocrite.

Now please make your trolling even richer; tell us your daughter does not consume meat products either, if rarely.

224

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

…You can no longer kill grizly bears…

[/quote]

Incorrect. But then again what’s new?

BTW, Rogue, tell us about your (massive mass building) diet. You don’t mind, do you? It aint like I’m asking you to post a pic or something bizarre like that.
[/quote]

I am not incorrect. Grizzly bears are protected. If that protected class has been lifted, i can guarantee they can’t just go out and hunt these beings as they see fit. I’m sure the laws are quite strict. [/quote]

You are dead wrong.

http://www.bearsinbc.com/pages/02grizzly/02regulations.html

http://www.blackstoneoutfitters.com/grizzly.htm[/quote]

Its sad as hell, they still allow the killing of these beautiful animals. No wonder i despise humans. But also notice, the rules of hunting are rather strict. You can only hunt for a very short amount of time. Usually only 2 months in the fall for the most part. sometimes a short period in the spring. and no cubs or pregnant females can be killed. We are also talking about Alaska here, where the brown bear population is in great numbers. [/quote]

Hunting is regulated b/c uncle Sam wants you to render unto Caesar and b/c as humans with DOMINION over animals we have a responsibility for sound ecological stewardship ya dumb ape.

We humans despise you too by the way :slight_smile:

225

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

well, as i once told my daughter. If animals aren’t allowed in heaven. I won’t have any part of it. souls are energy. all living beings have energy that can not be created nor destroyed. thats a fact. look it up. [/quote]

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[/quote]

Maybe you never heard what Einstein said, “energy can not be created nor destroyed, only changed.”[/quote]

Maybe you miss that that’s not evidence of a “soul”.

227

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

do you eat ANY meat you big dumb motherfucker?

when do we commence the murder conspiracy charges against your dumb illogical ass?[/quote]

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

If you consume meat you dumb shit, and “animals are equal to humans”, the State should indict you and try you for murder conspiracy charges. You should then be imprisoned you simpleton - where you can no longer troll, conspire to murder any more animals and/or influence your alleged daughter. [/quote]

wow, someone is in a bad mood, with all the name calling, lol. I never said i believe in heaven. I simply said, when talking to my daughter, if animals weren’t allowed in for any reason, I wouldn’t want any part of it. i always get a kick out of people calling me names, knowing full well, theres not a chance in hell they wouldn’t ever say that to my face. but this being the internet and people are very gutsy on here, ill let it slide.

228

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

well, as i once told my daughter. If animals aren’t allowed in heaven. I won’t have any part of it. souls are energy. all living beings have energy that can not be created nor destroyed. thats a fact. look it up. [/quote]

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[/quote]

Maybe you never heard what Einstein said, “energy can not be created nor destroyed, only changed.”[/quote]

Maybe you miss that that’s not evidence of a “soul”.[/quote]

call it a soul, a spirit or simply energy. whatever you wish. But tell people that have experienced a haunting or a polterguiest in their home, that these things do not exist. but that is another story. Just for fun sake, google “an american haunting” sometime. its the only fully documented case of a man dying at the hands of a ghost. this is not some lame attempt on my part. it was documented by a school teacher and has been verified as authentic.

229

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

How is that ‘end of story?’ You paid for someone else to kill the animal. That makes your point bullshit and makes you a hypocrite. If you must troll at least make it funny.[/quote]

I’m not perfect. yes, i have eaten meat. but like I said, I rarely if ever do eat it. I’m not making excuses. People can have beliefs and sometimes they are hypocrits, but i still feel how i do, sometimes when your in a supermarket or at a cookout, you sometimes forget it was once a living creature. [/quote]

Well allow me to remind you:

If you consume meat or contribute to the economy of using animal products (leather, hides, fur, etc.) you ARE a hypocrite. Now, as you put your shoes or belt on this morning, please do not forget that not only are you a troll of the first magnitude (or the poster boy for “meathead”), you are a serial hypocrite.

Now please make your trolling even richer; tell us your daughter does not consume meat products either, if rarely. [/quote]

if i don’t wear shoes, then what am i supposed to wear, lol. don’t be stupid. Is it my fault shoes are made of leather. lol. people have to work, right?

231

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

do you eat ANY meat you big dumb motherfucker?

when do we commence the murder conspiracy charges against your dumb illogical ass?[/quote]

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

If you consume meat you dumb shit, and “animals are equal to humans”, the State should indict you and try you for murder conspiracy charges. You should then be imprisoned you simpleton - where you can no longer troll, conspire to murder any more animals and/or influence your alleged daughter. [/quote]

wow, someone is in a bad mood, with all the name calling, lol. I never said i believe in heaven. I simply said, when talking to my daughter, if animals weren’t allowed in for any reason, I wouldn’t want any part of it. i always get a kick out of people calling me names, knowing full well, theres not a chance in hell they wouldn’t ever say that to my face. but this being the internet and people are very gutsy on here, ill let it slide. [/quote]

I thought we resolved this a long time ago dummy. I will say it to your face. And you’ll stand there and do nothing.

232

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

well, as i once told my daughter. If animals aren’t allowed in heaven. I won’t have any part of it. souls are energy. all living beings have energy that can not be created nor destroyed. thats a fact. look it up. [/quote]

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA[/quote]

Maybe you never heard what Einstein said, “energy can not be created nor destroyed, only changed.”[/quote]

Maybe you miss that that’s not evidence of a “soul”.[/quote]

call it a soul, a spirit or simply energy. whatever you wish. But tell people that have experienced a haunting or a polterguiest in their home, that these things do not exist. but that is another story. Just for fun sake, google “an american haunting” sometime. its the only fully documented case of a man dying at the hands of a ghost. this is not some lame attempt on my part. it was documented by a school teacher and has been verified as authentic. [/quote]

there is simply no possibility you are this stupid. none. zero.

we know you’re a troll as evidenced by your insane nonsensical postings and your refusal to post a verifiable picture. either this, or you’re mentally handicapped in some way.

therefore, I will no longer reply to you and I encourage others to likewise refrain from either “feeding the troll” or, picking on the kid that rides the short bus.

233

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

How is that ‘end of story?’ You paid for someone else to kill the animal. That makes your point bullshit and makes you a hypocrite. If you must troll at least make it funny.[/quote]

I’m not perfect. yes, i have eaten meat. but like I said, I rarely if ever do eat it. I’m not making excuses. People can have beliefs and sometimes they are hypocrits, but i still feel how i do, sometimes when your in a supermarket or at a cookout, you sometimes forget it was once a living creature. [/quote]

Well allow me to remind you:

If you consume meat or contribute to the economy of using animal products (leather, hides, fur, etc.) you ARE a hypocrite. Now, as you put your shoes or belt on this morning, please do not forget that not only are you a troll of the first magnitude (or the poster boy for “meathead”), you are a serial hypocrite.

Now please make your trolling even richer; tell us your daughter does not consume meat products either, if rarely. [/quote]

if i don’t wear shoes, then what am i supposed to wear, lol. don’t be stupid. Is it my fault shoes are made of leather. lol. people have to work, right?[/quote]

ignored.

234

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

do you eat ANY meat you big dumb motherfucker?

when do we commence the murder conspiracy charges against your dumb illogical ass?[/quote]

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

If you consume meat you dumb shit, and “animals are equal to humans”, the State should indict you and try you for murder conspiracy charges. You should then be imprisoned you simpleton - where you can no longer troll, conspire to murder any more animals and/or influence your alleged daughter. [/quote]

wow, someone is in a bad mood, with all the name calling, lol. I never said i believe in heaven. I simply said, when talking to my daughter, if animals weren’t allowed in for any reason, I wouldn’t want any part of it. i always get a kick out of people calling me names, knowing full well, theres not a chance in hell they wouldn’t ever say that to my face. but this being the internet and people are very gutsy on here, ill let it slide. [/quote]

I thought we resolved this a long time ago dummy. I will say it to your face. And you’ll stand there and do nothing. [/quote]

bhahahaah, no my friend, you wouldn’t.

235

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

please put forth your evidence that animals have “souls”.

i’ll be waiting.
[/quote]

BG, so there is a new definition of life only rolleduptampon knows that we don’t. Plants are no longer a form of life,

I did pain research as part of my neuroscience degree, and we tested the ganlion of certain snails that acted like a brain working together, and as part of that we were looking into electrical signaling in plants with various stimluli.

Rolleduptampon may be onto something. If everything that has some form of electrical siganling, whether electrolyte gradient or chemical eleectrical conductance, has a soul. We should just end all life, they all have rights. And we have to violate rights to exist.

hell by his definition a nuclear bomb has a soul, it is energy.

236

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

do you eat ANY meat you big dumb motherfucker?

when do we commence the murder conspiracy charges against your dumb illogical ass?[/quote]

Did i actually kill the animal. No. end of story. and i rarely if ever eat meat. [/quote]

If you consume meat you dumb shit, and “animals are equal to humans”, the State should indict you and try you for murder conspiracy charges. You should then be imprisoned you simpleton - where you can no longer troll, conspire to murder any more animals and/or influence your alleged daughter. [/quote]

wow, someone is in a bad mood, with all the name calling, lol. I never said i believe in heaven. I simply said, when talking to my daughter, if animals weren’t allowed in for any reason, I wouldn’t want any part of it. i always get a kick out of people calling me names, knowing full well, theres not a chance in hell they wouldn’t ever say that to my face. but this being the internet and people are very gutsy on here, ill let it slide. [/quote]

I thought we resolved this a long time ago dummy. I will say it to your face. And you’ll stand there and do nothing. [/quote]

bhahahaah, no my friend, you wouldn’t. [/quote]

yipee yahoo motherfucker, Yes.I.Would. Every day, and twice on Sunday. And you’ll stand there…and do…nothing.

237

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

please put forth your evidence that animals have “souls”.

i’ll be waiting.
[/quote]

BG, so there is a new definition of life only rolleduptampon knows that we don’t. Plants are no longer a form of life,

I did pain research as part of my neuroscience degree, and we tested the ganlion of certain snails that acted like a brain working together, and as part of that we were looking into electrical signaling in plants with various stimluli.

Rolleduptampon may be onto something. If everything that has some form of electrical siganling, whether electrolyte gradient or chemical eleectrical conductance, has a soul. We should just end all life, they all have rights. And we have to violate rights to exist.

hell by his definition a nuclear bomb has a soul, it is energy.

[/quote]

LOL

RV dumb as a snail.

238

VogueRampire.

239

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

You’re going to have to do better than that.

[/quote]

Okay.

Um…that’s what I said at the start of this challenge.

Depends what you mean by ‘value.’ A dog can be said to be more ‘valuable’ than a rooster because it is a superior form of life. Doesn’t necessarily mean the ‘value’ that the dog has to you.

Yeah, brilliant.

Okay coach. You’re still in check BTW.

240

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:<<< please put forth your evidence that animals have “souls”.

i’ll be waiting.
[/quote]I truly don’t wanna hijack this thread, but I know how much you enjoy my posts and would feel myself remiss if I were to forego this opportunity to comfort you with my antique fundamentalist insight.

Biblically speaking, animals ARE souls. (same word in the Hebrew) They are not however souls created in the image of God and are specifically said by God Himself to be given under the dominion of man to be used by man for his good and advancement under God for His glory. This includes food, clothing, medical research and sport. There will be a fine line here and there, but that’s the abbreviated version of the principle.