Bulking: The 10% Bodyfat Rule

Nutrition
41

[quote]actionjeff wrote:
I’m about 200 pounds and anywhere from 195-200 pounds and 15-18% bf. I don’t look bad with a shirt off but you ain’t seeing any abs

my ultimate goals are strength and performance related but I also would like to get cut for once in my life. I also do a LOT of physical activity and eat clean but my maintenance is probably around 4500 calories.

Do I “cut” and try to shed 10-15 pounds of bf the next couple months, or do I continue on the path I am on and just hope the fat comes off?

The whole cutting and bulking thing is tough to judge because I hear it’s pretty difficult to make any gains while cutting, but it’s also like- if not now, then when?

[/quote]

If gaining muscle is more important to you then bulk (but don’t try to fool yourself that you’ll cut by accident).

If losing fat is more important to you then cut (but don’t try to fool yourself that you’ll bulk by accident).

Bulk = Muscle building is a priority.
Cut = Fat loss is a priority.

Nobody else can tell YOU what YOU want, simple as that.

42

[quote]IQ wrote:
<<< If gaining muscle is more important to you then bulk (but don’t try to fool yourself that you’ll cut by accident). >>>[/quote]

Reading this made me rethink the way I stated something before. When I said [quote]“the fat will take care of itself”[/quote] I did not mean that you will become contest ready without specific effort in that direction. What I meant was how much you’ll have to carry while growing should be dictated by your muscles, not by a predetermined number.

43

[quote]IQ wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
I’m about 200 pounds and anywhere from 195-200 pounds and 15-18% bf. I don’t look bad with a shirt off but you ain’t seeing any abs

my ultimate goals are strength and performance related but I also would like to get cut for once in my life. I also do a LOT of physical activity and eat clean but my maintenance is probably around 4500 calories.

Do I “cut” and try to shed 10-15 pounds of bf the next couple months, or do I continue on the path I am on and just hope the fat comes off?

The whole cutting and bulking thing is tough to judge because I hear it’s pretty difficult to make any gains while cutting, but it’s also like- if not now, then when?

If gaining muscle is more important to you then bulk (but don’t try to fool yourself that you’ll cut by accident).

If losing fat is more important to you the cut (but don’t try to fool yourself that you’ll bulk by accident).

Bulk = Muscle building is a priority.
Cut = Fat loss is a priority.

Nobody else can tell YOU what YOU want, simple as that.[/quote]

well I want what everyone does to look good for the beach but also lift big weights over my head and continuously grow and set PRs =)

I guess I’ll just cut for a month keeping my intake and expenditure really high and then go back to eating enough to support my activities and gain some weight. Seems like now is the time to do it.

the 10% bodyfat thing seems silly, since that type of decision should be based upon ones goals. If you are a bodybuilder vs a performance athlete your priorities are gonna be a lot difference.

44

[quote]actionjeff wrote:
well I want what everyone does to look good for the beach but also lift big weights over my head and continuously grow and set PRs =)
[/quote]
You’re going to have decide which one you want more. You can look OK now or you can look great later, if that’s what you choose.

I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t expect much from that 1 month cut because you’re still trying to accomplish opposing goals simultaneously. It can be possible for some people but it seems to make things much more difficult than necessary.

Agreed.

45

[quote]IQ wrote:
Digity wrote:
I agree. If you need that much spoonfeeding then your head is probably not in the game enough. I had the problem of paralysis by analysis. I had so much information in front of me…some contradictory…I didn’t know what to do. Eventually, I said fuck it and I picked one program and went with it. I’m glad I just jumped into it. I probably could have better results than I currently do three months into it, but at least I started. If I didn’t, I’d still be at square one reading a million more articles on how to build muscle without having really done any of the real work.

I’m not condoning “armchair bodybuilding” here. I think someone who sits there for months reading about bodybuilding and not applying any of it is wasting a ton of valuable time. That being said, we still need some information…not tons, but still some. The combination of proper direction and action leads to success. I decided to think for myself and was misdirected. Misdirection and action leads to failure. My whole point was that beginners should get SOME advice so they don’t waste precious times following a misdirected plan. However, it’s when beginners overdo it and want to read everything out there that things fall apart.

The point you’re missing is that it’s not the thinking that’s important it’s the use of common sense.

If you were using common sense when you realised that your diet was inadequate what do you think would have been the logical outcome?

Eat more.

I’m not insulting you because I used to be just like you are but luckily for me I naturally question everything and can learn from my mistakes. I could have used common sense from the beginning but I assumed that “they must know better than I do, right?”, “they must know my body better than I do, right?”.

Wrong.

Being pointed in the right direction is valuable but you should find your own path after that. It’s through trial and error that you learn what’s really valuable i.e. what actually works for YOU.

The sooner you can reach a point where you believe that you may actually be able to contribute something worthwhile to your own progress, instead of looking for guidance and validation the better.[/quote]

I had trouble accepting that I need to eat more. The thing is, I had stomach fat and I was obsessed about it. I wanted to get rid of it. When I came here everyone told me to eat more, but I was afraid that following that advice would just make my stomach even fatter. My focus was ALL on my stomach and nothing else. So, it took me a while to just accept the advice and try it. Sure, it seems dumb that I just didn’t eat more from the get-go. However, if you come into bodybuilding with the mindset I had: “I want a flat stomach” then it’s hard to get anywhere.

Anyway, turns out my chest has gotten a bit bigger now and is in better proportion to my stomach, which doesn’t seem as much of a big deal now. However, I still worry about it at times. :confused:

A “common sense” approach to bodybuilding, as you suggest, makes perfect sense…unless you have weird hangups like me…who was afraid of putting food down my throat, because of my obsession with stomach fat. People like me need to be pushed at the beginning so that we can get over these odd issues we have.

46

[quote]IQ wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
well I want what everyone does to look good for the beach but also lift big weights over my head and continuously grow and set PRs =)

You’re going to have decide which one you want more. You can look OK now or you can look great later, if that’s what you choose.

I guess I’ll just cut for a month keeping my intake and expenditure really high and then go back to eating enough to support my activities and gain some weight. Seems like now is the time to do it.

I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t expect much from that 1 month cut because you’re still trying to accomplish opposing goals simultaneously. It can be possible for some people but it seems to make things much more difficult than necessary.

the 10% bodyfat thing seems silly, since that type of decision should be based upon ones goals. If you are a bodybuilder vs a performance athlete your priorities are gonna be a lot difference.

Agreed.[/quote]

hmm, you may be right. Even like a month and a half and you don’t think it would be worthwhile?

If so I guess there is no point and might as well keep building eh. It’s a crappy decision to make, especially before summer. MBN for those on steroids!

47

[quote]Digity wrote:
I had trouble accepting that I need to eat more. The thing is, I had stomach fat and I was obsessed about it. I wanted to get rid of it. When I came here everyone told me to eat more, but I was afraid that following that advice would just make my stomach even fatter. My focus was ALL on my stomach and nothing else. So, it took me a while to just accept the advice and try it. Sure, it seems dumb that I just didn’t eat more from the get-go. However, if you come into bodybuilding with the mindset I had: “I want a flat stomach” then it’s hard to get anywhere.

Anyway, turns out my chest has gotten a bit bigger now and is in better proportion to my stomach, which doesn’t seem as much of a big deal now. However, I still worry about it at times. :confused:

A “common sense” approach to bodybuilding, as you suggest, makes perfect sense…unless you have weird hangups like me…who was afraid of putting food down my throat, because of my obsession with stomach fat. People like me need to be pushed at the beginning so that we can get over these odd issues we have.[/quote]

That’s the beauty of the “common sense” approach. Even if you have a hard time accepting that you need to eat more you still know it’s true. The question becomes “Am I PREPARED to eat more?”, because you already know that you NEED to eat more.

I would think that most people have hangups, though you might not get people to admit it around here :). You just need to get to a point where you can trust yourself and your decision making abilities.

48

[quote]actionjeff wrote:
hmm, you may be right. Even like a month and a half and you don’t think it would be worthwhile?

If so I guess there is no point and might as well keep building eh. It’s a crappy decision to make, especially before summer. MBN for those on steroids!

[/quote]

At the BF% given earlier you are not going to be ripped in a month and a half and [quote]“keeping my intake and expenditure really high”[/quote] doesn’t sound like the most efficient cutting strategy to me. Actually it sounds like you’re not actually changing anything but the goal you’re hoping for.

49

[quote]IQ wrote:
actionjeff wrote:
hmm, you may be right. Even like a month and a half and you don’t think it would be worthwhile?

If so I guess there is no point and might as well keep building eh. It’s a crappy decision to make, especially before summer. MBN for those on steroids!

At the BF% given earlier you are not going to be ripped in a month and a half and “keeping my intake and expenditure really high” doesn’t sound like the most efficient cutting strategy to me. Actually it sounds like you’re not actually changing anything but the goal you’re hoping for.[/quote]

Which is why he won’t be making much progress in either direction.

I am not sure why someone would start dieting down for summer a month ahead of time in the first place as if you just wish the extra fat off. If you don’t have the mass underneath and a good 3-4 months (or more) to dedicate to dieting down, why the hell would you do it? Unless the goal is to simply cut back a little if you gained too much, this is a huge waste of time and a great way to stagnate any further progress.

Most of the people here seem to enjoy spinning their wheels for no damn reason other than that they can’t commit to one goal at a time.

50

Frankly, I don’t see this as a problem. Dumb people shouldn’t be here. They’ll either give up out of frustration or latch onto some big dudes and eventually learn. For those of us with half a brain, it’s not hard to take all this information in, try different things and eventually figure out what works for us as individuals. This is not the place for people who don’t know how to think for themselves. I’m pretty sure a couple of you are trying to make this point, but I don’t understand why you’re all still arguing about it. Just ignore this shit.

51

[quote]wfifer wrote:
This is not the place for people who don’t know how to think for themselves. [/quote]

We keep getting told that we are supposed to welcome these idiots. I had one in the “milk” thread claim he searched Google for info on lactose intolerance and couldn’t find any. Someone like that honestly doesn’t belong here, yet we are labeled as bad guys if we point that out at all.

This site is sending mixed messages which is why the sheep stay here.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:
wfifer wrote:
This is not the place for people who don’t know how to think for themselves.

We keep getting told that we are supposed to welcome these idiots. I had one in the “milk” thread claim he searched Google for info on lactose intolerance and couldn’t find any. Someone like that honestly doesn’t belong here, yet we are labeled as bad guys if we point that out at all.

This site is sending mixed messages which is why the sheep stay here.[/quote]

Must be “Big Dairy” keeping that info under wraps…

Just for fun, the simple phrase “lactose intolerance” returned 1,250,000 results for me in under 1 second on Google… I dont understand how anyone could have “not found anything” on there.