[quote]flch95 wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Shorten the stride and experiment. [/quote]
Wouldn’t this place MORE emphasis on the quad/VMO?[/quote]
Bounced to this thread after reading another. Yes it puts more on the knee extensors.
For glutes, long stride RLE SS’s, hip thrust, kettlebell swing. They each feel very different to me and seem to hit the glutes completely.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
[quote]flch95 wrote:
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Shorten the stride and experiment. [/quote]
Wouldn’t this place MORE emphasis on the quad/VMO?[/quote]
Bounced to this thread after reading another. Yes it puts more on the knee extensors.
For glutes, long stride RLE SS’s, hip thrust, kettlebell swing. They each feel very different to me and seem to hit the glutes completely.
[/quote]
I actually feel better doing these in a smith machine. I get more glute emphasis there and less on stabilization since you’re not using any effort on balancing (which has its place on most days, but on others I like not having to deal with that).
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Try double contractions on the Bulgarian split squats: Go all the way down, slowly go up halfway, go back down, do up completely… this is one rep.[/quote]
I did these at the end of my leg workout yesterday. Brutal; had to go pretty light with the weight. But I definitely have some new soreness today. I’m going to stick with them for a while.
[quote]lunk wrote:
Thanks a lot for the info and taking the time to write that 56x11, I am trying to find out what works best for me. Can you tell me your torso angle when doing the RFESS - just ‘upright’ or ‘leaning forward’ would suffice?
Bret Conteras has said a forward lean in RFESS maximizes glute contribution, whereas Mike Robertson has said that an upright torso in RFESS maximizes glute contribution. I am not sure who to believe, because we know that a forward torso lean increases glute activation in bilateral squats, but I’m not sure if it works the same way unilaterally.
[/quote]
I’ll have to take your word on Brett’s and Mike’s respective stance on torso lean. I really don’t keep up with their blogs.
The reason a forward lean may involve more glute involvement is that it places the area (especially the glute max) in a more stretched position when in the hole. This stetched position makes the glutes more ready to engage. A similar principle involves over head pulling movements involving the long head of the triceps (due to it’s attachment to the scap).
One technique you can try is a forward lean in the hole (not excessive to the point it turns into a lower back exercise). As you come up in the concentric portion, squeeze the glutes AND bring your torso closer to perpendicular. This subtle shift in angles can facilitate even more glute involvement.
What follows is some friendly ball-busting. If you don’t want to read it, that’s okay…
There comes a point where one has to shut down the laptop, go to the gym, and lift weights. I do believe you’ve been given lots of useful information by the people in this thread. It has also been suggested that you need to experiment and find what works for you. Analysis is fine; however, if it’s not followed by action, there is no progress. So, give some of these ideas honest effort, and then come back and discuss.
56x11 - yeh, that’s fine, I will implement these on my next lower body session.
But what torso lean do you personally use with the RFESS? I am asking because you have said you have no problem feeling the glutes working with the RFESS.
All I’m asking is if you stay upright or lean forwards?
Cheers.
[quote]lunk wrote:
56x11 - yeh, that’s fine, I will implement these on my next lower body session.
But what torso lean do you personally use with the RFESS? I am asking because you have said you have no problem feeling the glutes working with the RFESS.
All I’m asking is if you stay upright or lean forwards?
Cheers.[/quote]
Honestly - it varies from workout to workout. I’m sure there are folks out there that keep a precise log on exact angles. However, as stated in my first post in this thread, the beauty of free weight and body weight exercise is the ability to make subtle changes in angles. I suppose if you were to watch me in person, you’d notice that the angles used for any given movement changes from session to session, from one set to another, or perhaps within the same set.
Obviously, for any given exercise, there are acceptable ranges involved; to go outside of that is flirting with trouble. Yet there is room for interpretation when exercising with free weights and body weight movements.
At this rate, you’re on your way of becoming the Frank Zane of glutes. So I’ll close with this analogy. All artists have the same tools: a canvas, paint, brushes. It’s what they do with these tools that sets them apart. Cultivate patience, stay smart with your approach, and stay consistent.
[quote]lunk wrote:
56x11 - yeh, that’s fine, I will implement these on my next lower body session.
But what torso lean do you personally use with the RFESS? I am asking because you have said you have no problem feeling the glutes working with the RFESS.
All I’m asking is if you stay upright or lean forwards?
Cheers.[/quote]
I believe upright is more athletic and, generally speaking, better. For glutes, try swings, and bilateral and unilateral glute bridges or hip thrusts.
When you are upright, your center of gravity is directly under your body and the lever arm is between it and the heel of the leg that is in front. When you lean forward, your center of gravity moves forward, making the lever arm between your center of gravity and your heel shorter. The shorter lever arm makes it easier to extend the hip, so the glutes don’t need to produce as much force when leaning forward and shifting your center of gravity forward.
However, when you lean forward, your hip angle decreases and the glutes are placed in a more stretched position. The glutes are forced to fire through a greater range-of-motion than if you were more upright. This increased range-of-motion may also increase glute recruitment.
So like the others have said, you need to experiment yourself and figure out what balance of these two factors makes the glutes more involved with your particular body type.
Thanks Mike, I didn’t think of the lever arm on the glutes being shorter when the torso is angled forwards.
The conflict between taking the glutes through a longer range of motion by leaning forwards and increasing the lever arm on them by remaining upright must be the reason why coaches can disagree on whether to lean forwards or not in single legged exercises.
The rear leg must also be bearing more of the weight if you are performing RFESS with a long stride, vertical tibia and upright torso. If the rear leg were not bearing a significant portion of the weight (more than if you leaned forwards), that position would be unstable and you’d fall over backwards.
Of course, in a free-weight bilateral squat, there is no ‘rear leg’, so it is impossible to keep the torso upright (increasing lever arm on glutes) AND keep the shins vertical at the same time. Unless your femurs are an inch long you would fall over backwards. Mechanically, even if you did have inch-long femurs you’d still fall over backwards.
I guess this is why some people use smith machine squats to target the glutes as they can have a vertical tibia, AND an upright torso at the same time.
Great analysis, I thought you were stupid before because you kept on asking the same questions. (No offense.)
[quote]flch95 wrote:
If you want glute work, why not do sumo squats, or walking lunges, or even static lunges? Or you could try doing them in a smith machine; I feel the work more in the glutes when doing them there instead of free weight.[/quote]
RFESS in smith +1