Bruce Lee's Stats?

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81

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:

Think about this.

Done! Lebell would recoil from having exposed a target to Lee’s bite, and Lee would be free to evade and try a new approach, including all sorts of “illegal” moves that Lebell would have specifically trained to avoid, thus limiting his general combat ability.

Oh, wait, you had more. Sorry, please continue.[/quote]

-What target would that be? A leg? If I, or anybody else, has a arm bar secured on you, do you think a bite to the thigh is gonna be enough to keep your arm from breaking? You have obviously never been that situation, or you wouldn’t speak such silliness.
Wait, I see that more silliness follows.[quote]

…Would he still be biting after LeBell FINISHED the submission hold? After his elbow, knee, shoulder, or whatever had been dislocated? Was he skilled in the art of Pitbull-kwon-do?

With 2 provisos:

  1. Lee and Lebell would have been in true adversarial combat, instead of Lebell teaching Lee Judo, and

  2. Inasmuch as the human jaw is designed to generate incredible amounts of pressure specifically for incapacitating, damaging and rending the flesh of animal prey,

YES.[/quote]

Did you really just say that the human jaw and dental structure is designed to incapacitate prey?
I don’t even know how to respond to that, other than advising you to do a bit more research.[quote]

Why do you think biting is illegal in virtually all sanctionned combat competitions?
[/quote]

Umm, maybe because it’s dirty and spreads disease. Certainly not because it’s an instant fight stopper. You greatly overestimate your non tool-wielding predatory skills[quote]

How bout this scenario? LeBell finishes his hold on the biting Master, crippling one limb. He then moves on and proceeds to cripple the remaining three. Lebell gets treated and released at the hospital. Bruce, not so fortunate. Not bad for a “sport” fighter.

I didn’t know Lebell didn’t need blood flow to perform physical feats.

-Glee[/quote]

-How was LeBell’s blood flow stopped again? By the bite, right? How exactly would a human bite cause such profuse blood loss? Maybe a bite to the throat, but I’ve never seen a submission hold where your throat is exposed to an opponent’s bite. What about you?

Do you think that sport fighters are somehow unable to use bites and eye-gouges and such? They are not the exclusive realm of “martial artists”. These street techniques do not give you an upper hand against somebody skilled and practiced in sport combat.

Everybody knows a second-rate boxer, wrestler, or MMA guy would destroy your typical “martial artist” in a street fight. Everybody except maybe the martial artist, of course.

82

Biting, eye gouging, and other dirty tactics do NOT work, EVER, unless you’re in an advantageous position. I could see dirty tactics working if you’re the one that is in a superior position.

But if you’re in the bottom of a mount (the guy is on top of you), trying to eye gouge them will get you armbarred so fast you won’t even know what hit you.

As for biting, it’s a common classical “defense” against an armbar. It doesn’t work. Ok, I’m ready to break my opponent’s arm. He just bit me! Oh well, SNAPS ARM. It’s not like I’m going to give a damn if he gives me a small cut on my leg.

Furthermore, with the adrenaline it is unlikely that I would even feel it until after the fight.

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Allergic to cannabis? Your brain responds specifically to it due to receptors that seem to be very adaptive to accepting. I will try to find some research, but I think you are way off on this. No one has ever died because of marijuana directly. NO ONE.

I seriously doubt Bruce Lee was the first and last. This sounds like when they claimed that the woman who played Dorothy in the original Wizard of Oz movie died from sleeping pills. Yeah, that’s what they called all drug addictions back then…sleeping pills.

I am not jumping on you. It is just that false info like this is spread and then commonly believed…much like marijuana and decreased testosterone.[/quote]

Ok, let me try one more time. These are the rumors that are out there, not the facts. One of the physicians was quoted as saying the amount should not have played a roll, but that didn?t keep people from assuming it did.

I wasn’t attempting to say they were facts, or what actually happened. Just mentioning the conspiracy theories.

Oh by the way, cannabis does in fact lower testosterone. Then again so does alcohol.

84

[quote]The Mage wrote:

Oh by the way, cannabis does in fact lower testosterone. Then again so does alcohol. [/quote]

Any chance we could get a current study proving this? I mean, one that was not done in conjuction with Reefer Madness promos?

85

The reasons why Lee is such a lightning rod are numerous.

A big part of it is there are a good number of people who think because they have UFC or Pride on pay per veiw every time it’s on, they are now martial arts experts.

Another part is some of the remarks are ignorant of martial arts in general.

There tends to be a really retarded mentality on this board that thinks you have to be roided to the gills to be a good fighter.

There are also a few who are jealous of Lee.

86

[quote]Sifu wrote:
The reasons why Lee is such a lightning rod are numerous.

A big part of it is there are a good number of people who think because they have UFC or Pride on pay per veiw every time it’s on, they are now martial arts experts.

Another part is some of the remarks are ignorant of martial arts in general.

There tends to be a really retarded mentality on this board that thinks you have to be roided to the gills to be a good fighter.

There are also a few who are jealous of Lee. [/quote]

Well either way I dig the guy. He did alot for martial arts…I’ve read a couple of his training books and what not.

And even if some of the stuff about him isn’t true…sometimes legends are a good thing. They keep people striving for better things because they believe its possible…the myth of Bruce Lee has far surpassed the man, and that will never be changed. Either way, maybe that’s not a bad thing.

87

[quote]AZMojo wrote:
What target would that be? A leg? If I, or anybody else, has a arm bar secured on you, do you think a bite to the thigh is gonna be enough to keep your arm from breaking? You have obviously never been that situation, or you wouldn’t speak such silliness.
Wait, I see that more silliness follows.[/quote]

You’re absolutely right – I can’t speak such silliness because I’ve never been Bruce Lee in an arm bar.

Have you?

[quote]…Would he still be biting after LeBell FINISHED the submission hold? After his elbow, knee, shoulder, or whatever had been dislocated? Was he skilled in the art of Pitbull-kwon-do?

With 2 provisos:

  1. Lee and Lebell would have been in true adversarial combat, instead of Lebell teaching Lee Judo, and

  2. Inasmuch as the human jaw is designed to generate incredible amounts of pressure specifically for incapacitating, damaging and rending the flesh of animal prey,

YES.

Did you really just say that the human jaw and dental structure is designed to incapacitate prey?
I don’t even know how to respond to that, other than advising you to do a bit more research.[/quote]

How’s this?

[quote]Why do you think biting is illegal in virtually all sanctionned combat competitions?

Umm, maybe because it’s dirty and spreads disease. Certainly not because it’s an instant fight stopper. You greatly overestimate your non tool-wielding predatory skills[/quote]

Then why aren’t hand strikes illegal? Hands are far dirtier than teeth.

[quote]How bout this scenario? LeBell finishes his hold on the biting Master, crippling one limb. He then moves on and proceeds to cripple the remaining three. Lebell gets treated and released at the hospital. Bruce, not so fortunate. Not bad for a “sport” fighter.

I didn’t know Lebell didn’t need blood flow to perform physical feats.

-Glee

-How was LeBell’s blood flow stopped again? By the bite, right? How exactly would a human bite cause such profuse blood loss? Maybe a bite to the throat, but I’ve never seen a submission hold where your throat is exposed to an opponent’s bite. What about you?[/quote]

Well, let’s use your own example above: the leg. If memory serves, the femoral artery is one of the largest blood vessels of the entire body.

No, but I think they train specifically to quell such impulses, and don’t bother training to avoid such situations because they don’t expect their sporting opponents to use these self-same “dirty” tactics. Thus, they artificially limit themselves in order to perform specifically in their chosen sport.

So if you kick someone in the nuts, or gouge their eyes, or bite a chunk out of their forearm, they’ll be completely unaffected? Oooooooooooo-kay.

Don’t they have some western boxers in UFC, which is far closer to a street fight than Queensbury boxing?

http://www.sherdog.com/stats/stylelossrecords_ratio.htm

-Glee

88

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
The reasons why Lee is such a lightning rod are numerous.

A big part of it is there are a good number of people who think because they have UFC or Pride on pay per veiw every time it’s on, they are now martial arts experts.

Another part is some of the remarks are ignorant of martial arts in general.

There tends to be a really retarded mentality on this board that thinks you have to be roided to the gills to be a good fighter.

There are also a few who are jealous of Lee.

Well either way I dig the guy. He did alot for martial arts…I’ve read a couple of his training books and what not.

And even if some of the stuff about him isn’t true…sometimes legends are a good thing. They keep people striving for better things because they believe its possible…the myth of Bruce Lee has far surpassed the man, and that will never be changed. Either way, maybe that’s not a bad thing.[/quote]

It isn’t, and Sifu has made some good posts in this thread that make it different than the usual “how do I get big arms like Bruce?!” bullshit. I still don’t get how people are degrading the concept of chi, however.

It makes me think there are quite a few involved in martial arts who don’t even understand some of the basic principles that have sustained it for centuries.

89

[quote]DLboy wrote:
Biting, eye gouging, and other dirty tactics do NOT work, EVER, unless you’re in an advantageous position. I could see dirty tactics working if you’re the one that is in a superior position.[/quote]

Then why do women’s self-defense courses encourage groin kicks so much?

Oh, I would never say that dirty fighting always works – especially if someone intends to rely on them to compensate for a lack of skill. But they are tactics like any other, and they can work if they’re properly used.

Entirely possible. But until I’m presented with something besides heresay, I’ll continue to believe that people are reluctant to being bitten.

It’s equally unlikely that anyone would even feel a broken arm until after the fight either.

-Glee

90

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The Mage wrote:

Oh by the way, cannabis does in fact lower testosterone. Then again so does alcohol.

Any chance we could get a current study proving this? I mean, one that was not done in conjuction with Reefer Madness promos?[/quote]

“Human studies have shown that chronic users have decreased levels of serum testosterone. Because steroidogenesis can be restimulated with human chorionic gonadotropin, it appears that THC does not directly affect steroid production by the corpus luteum, but that its action is mediated by the hypothalamus.”

There is also a rat study that shows a 20 - 30% reduction in their testosterone production, but on the opposite side, there is also research (German) where they took about 44 Pakistani men who were chronic users of cannabis, and found no difference between their testosterone levels and the control group who were not believed to have used cannabis.

Then there is this quote:

“Reduced testosterone and FSH may be important in producing the observed changes in sperm production by the seminiferous tubules. Many of the effects on the endocrine system caused by chronic treatment of animals with THC are completely reversible with time and there is reason to believe that tolerance develops to these effects with acute exposure to THC”

So the longer the drug is used, the less the effects as the body adapts.

I simply think it is important to note the effects, and if a person is having problems with testosterone levels, or is attempting to maximize them, they may want to avoid marijuana. They would probably want to avoid excess alcohol too.

91

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It isn’t, and Sifu has made some good posts in this thread that make it different than the usual “how do I get big arms like Bruce?!” bullshit.[/quote]

I want arms as big as Bruce Lee.

I don’t mean I want my arms as big as his arms, I want my arms as big as Bruce Lee.

92

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The Mage wrote:

Oh by the way, cannabis does in fact lower testosterone. Then again so does alcohol.

Any chance we could get a current study proving this? I mean, one that was not done in conjuction with Reefer Madness promos?

“Human studies have shown that chronic users have decreased levels of serum testosterone. Because steroidogenesis can be restimulated with human chorionic gonadotropin, it appears that THC does not directly affect steroid production by the corpus luteum, but that its action is mediated by the hypothalamus.”

There is also a rat study that shows a 20 - 30% reduction in their testosterone production, but on the opposite side, there is also research (German) where they took about 44 Pakistani men who were chronic users of cannabis, and found no difference between their testosterone levels and the control group who were not believed to have used cannabis.

Then there is this quote:

“Reduced testosterone and FSH may be important in producing the observed changes in sperm production by the seminiferous tubules. Many of the effects on the endocrine system caused by chronic treatment of animals with THC are completely reversible with time and there is reason to believe that tolerance develops to these effects with acute exposure to THC”

So the longer the drug is used, the less the effects as the body adapts.

I simply think it is important to note the effects, and if a person is having problems with testosterone levels, or is attempting to maximize them, they may want to avoid marijuana. They would probably want to avoid excess alcohol too.[/quote]

No, I said STUDY. It was a common mistake and don’t think of this as ripping you because I know where you are coming from.

However, results in rats do not translate over to humans and you will be hardpressed to actually find a STUDY that shows a decrease in testosterone without some guy writing an article simply saying “it is decreased”. Well, how much, and in how many patients, and in how much time, and it what peer reviewed studies?

The point being made is, there were articles written for decades repeating over and over until the 80’s that steroids did not aid in muscle growth. I used to go down to the basement book room at the library in the Houston medical center and read these articles that blatantly lied or used such small dosages of certain hormones that this was the direct reason they found no effect.

This was being proven wrong right in front of their faces, but many doctors and scientists still repeated the false info and the general public believed it. Look deeper than the surface bullshit. That goes for all “studies”.

93

[quote]Professor X wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sifu wrote:
The reasons why Lee is such a lightning rod are numerous.

A big part of it is there are a good number of people who think because they have UFC or Pride on pay per veiw every time it’s on, they are now martial arts experts.

Another part is some of the remarks are ignorant of martial arts in general.

There tends to be a really retarded mentality on this board that thinks you have to be roided to the gills to be a good fighter.

There are also a few who are jealous of Lee.

Well either way I dig the guy. He did alot for martial arts…I’ve read a couple of his training books and what not.

And even if some of the stuff about him isn’t true…sometimes legends are a good thing. They keep people striving for better things because they believe its possible…the myth of Bruce Lee has far surpassed the man, and that will never be changed. Either way, maybe that’s not a bad thing.

It isn’t, and Sifu has made some good posts in this thread that make it different than the usual “how do I get big arms like Bruce?!” bullshit. I still don’t get how people are degrading the concept of chi, however.

It makes me think there are quite a few involved in martial arts who don’t even understand some of the basic principles that have sustained it for centuries.[/quote]

I agree, that is just off the mark. Martial arts is a very mental endeavor, and enough cannot be said for that “mystical nonsense”. The ability to stay rational during a fight situation alone is one that takes alot of practice to master- to own yourself and your emotions is even more impressive.

If you’ve never heard of Marc MacYoung, go look him up on the internet and buy his books. (The guy is incredible). Even he claims that every great streetfighter has had some sense of peace, or some inner strength, something that is an intangible in a fight. I’m looking for the passage but can’t seem to find it in his book.

Either way, I hope the guy that said that has to fight someone who possesses that “mystical nonsense”. Have fun.

94

[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
AZMojo wrote:
What target would that be? A leg? If I, or anybody else, has a arm bar secured on you, do you think a bite to the thigh is gonna be enough to keep your arm from breaking? You have obviously never been that situation, or you wouldn’t speak such silliness.
Wait, I see that more silliness follows.

You’re absolutely right – I can’t speak such silliness because I’ve never been Bruce Lee in an arm bar.

Have you?[/quote]

Why do I get the feeling that you’re like fourteen years old?

It doesn’t matter if it’s Bruce lee or anybody else in the arm bar. A bite still won’t get them out of it.[quote]

  1. Inasmuch as the human jaw is designed to generate incredible amounts of pressure specifically for incapacitating, damaging and rending the flesh of animal prey,

YES.

Did you really just say that the human jaw and dental structure is designed to incapacitate prey?
I don’t even know how to respond to that, other than advising you to do a bit more research.

How’s this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth[/quote]

How’s what? A discussion on teeth? We’re talking about HUMAN tooth and mouth design. Or are you lumping humans in with carnivores like the big cats and wolves? If so, damn![quote]

Why do you think biting is illegal in virtually all sanctionned combat competitions?

Umm, maybe because it’s dirty and spreads disease. Certainly not because it’s an instant fight stopper. You greatly overestimate your non tool-wielding predatory skills

Then why aren’t hand strikes illegal? Hands are far dirtier than teeth.[/quote]

Wrong.[quote]

-How was LeBell’s blood flow stopped again? By the bite, right? How exactly would a human bite cause such profuse blood loss? Maybe a bite to the throat, but I’ve never seen a submission hold where your throat is exposed to an opponent’s bite. What about you?

Well, let’s use your own example above: the leg. If memory serves, the femoral artery is one of the largest blood vessels of the entire body.[/quote]

Please enlighten me on how you would access the femoral artery while in an arm bar? Hint: it’s on the INSIDE of the leg. Are you now chewing my leg off before I snap your arm and move on?[quote]

Do you think that sport fighters are somehow unable to use bites and eye-gouges and such?

No, but I think they train specifically to quell such impulses, and don’t bother training to avoid such situations because they don’t expect their sporting opponents to use these self-same “dirty” tactics. Thus, they artificially limit themselves in order to perform specifically in their chosen sport.

These street techniques do not give you an upper hand against somebody skilled and practiced in sport combat.

So if you kick someone in the nuts, or gouge their eyes, or bite a chunk out of their forearm, they’ll be completely unaffected? Oooooooooooo-kay.[/quote]

We’ll talk some more once you’ve been in an ACTUAL fight. Let me know how that mouth full of forearm works out for you.[quote]

Everybody knows a second-rate boxer, wrestler, or MMA guy would destroy your typical “martial artist” in a street fight. Everybody except maybe the martial artist, of course.

Don’t they have some western boxers in UFC, which is far closer to a street fight than Queensbury boxing?

http://www.sherdog.com/stats/stylelossrecords_ratio.htm

-Glee[/quote]

Your point? Boxers can’t grapple? Okay, that’s true. So, you like the chances of a TKD black belt over an experienced boxer? How about Aikido? Maybe White Crane kung fu? Please. Again, I’m talking about real fights, not dojo theory.

95

The concept of chi gets degraded because people don’t understand it or don’t have the patience and perseverance to work on it.

It can be a challenge just to find a teacher who really knows what he is talking about.

Some people are thick headed. Unless you smash their head in they won’t respect you, and then when you do they get all pouty and usually don’t want to come back.

According to Jwing Ming, Chi is bio-electric eletricity.

The way to see it is with karelian photography.

96

[quote]DLboy wrote:
Biting, eye gouging, and other dirty tactics do NOT work, EVER, unless you’re in an advantageous position. I could see dirty tactics working if you’re the one that is in a superior position.

I once had a classmate kick me in the eye with his big toe. My legs just collapsed instantly. My central nervous system just shut down. That was one of the most excruciating blows I have ever taken. Getting kicked in the nuts does’nt hurt as bad as that.

I had a neighbor who when he was in jail his cellmate tried to rape him, the thing that saved him was he bit the guys dick off.

97

[quote]Sifu wrote:
DLboy wrote:
Biting, eye gouging, and other dirty tactics do NOT work, EVER, unless you’re in an advantageous position. I could see dirty tactics working if you’re the one that is in a superior position.

I once had a classmate kick me in the eye with his big toe. My legs just collapsed instantly. My central nervous system just shut down. That was one of the most excruciating blows I have ever taken. Getting kicked in the nuts does’nt hurt as bad as that.

I had a neighbor who when he was in jail his cellmate tried to rape him, the thing that saved him was he bit the guys dick off.
[/quote]

Yea, if you’re gonna rape some guy, you probably should stick your dick in his mouth. But besides being utterly retarded, there aren’t many situations in a fight where you’re going to be able to bite a guy’s dick off. And sticking your toes in someone’s eye is incredibly difficult to do, not exactly something you can plan out.

98

[quote]carandrew wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Duh-he was small. Duh-he was pretty impressive. What is the argument? It’s not like he was a bodybuilder or anything.

Well, he wrote a bodybuilding book… Anyway, i read an article on Myodynamics (Staleys page) years ago, I couln’t find it now but it was about Lee’s strength.
From what I remember, his lower body strength was quit weak, he used ~130lbs when squatting, and if I remember correctly he used less than 30 pound dumbellls when curling which doesn’t nescessarily mean anything. It didn’t say anything about his power in more strength-related excercises. It did say, however, that he was born with one testicle and thus was on testosterone replacement.

If anyone knows the article I’m talking about I’d be interested in reading it again, it might be total bull for all I know.

Actually, I don’t know how much Lee squatted or anything, but I do know he used around 130-140 pounds for his good-mornings (before he hurt himself doing this movement), so naturally he must’ve squatted more than this…He also used to do zottman curls with 35 pound dumbbells whenever he had free time, so I imagine he could curl easily more than the 30 pounders you thought he used. He also used 100 pound kettlebells for rows (8-12 rep range on his exercises as i recall, pretty much always for 2 sets).

As far as measurements: he was 5-7 or 5-8, weight 135, 43" chest and 14" arms (based on his notes 1965 after his first months of weight training). I read in an old Ironman that he had gotten has big as 165-170 while he was bodybuilding in the late sixties.

99

A 43" chest with 14" arms at 5’8 130lbs is proportionetly big. I don’t think his measurements were that high.

100

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
A 43" chest with 14" arms at 5’8 130lbs is proportionetly big. I don’t think his measurements were that high.[/quote]

at that point he was 140 I believe and not 130. Sorry 43 inches is expanded, relaxed was 41,5 (as seen in: little, john, The art of expressing the human body, tuttle publishing,p.41, volume 4 of the bruce lee library.)
ps The arm measurements are correct though at 13 3/4 left and 14 1/4 r.