Brokeback Propaganda

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1908

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Do you want Polygamists and those who practice incest to have the right to marry too? Or is it just your rights that you are concerned about?
[/quote]

Now that I have my framing out of the way, I will point out that I answered this question many pages back. You just forgot about it.

What I said then, and continue to say now, is that people are entitled to freedom and happiness as long as they aren’t hurting others in the process.

I think polygamy and incest should be held against that same standard. If polygamy or incest inherently and inevitably damage people, then they shouldn’t be sanctioned through marriage. Otherwise, they should be allowed.

Preventing people from happiness due to personal religious beliefs alone doesn’t cut it. Governmental policies should be driven by facts, not fiction.

1909

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
But you are not guaranteed the right to marry another man!

You enjoy the right to marry the person you love. I don’t. That is discrimination, no matter how you spin it.[/quote]

You are quite wrong on this, I’m sorry.

That is no more discrimination than it is for a man in his forties to be denied the right to join the Army. But at the same time a man who is 19 years old has that right.

He can join the Army yet I am denied! Am I being discriminated against? And if so is that discrimination justified under the law?

Why don’t I get a chance to prove that I can pass the fitness test?

It seems that certain criteria must be met prior to enjoying certain “rights.”

You have to try to break out of your narrow lane of thinking. I’m trying to help you do that.

[/quote]

1910

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
And homosexuals who want to marry never see themselves as wanting to disrupt a 5000+ year old institution to legitimize their homosexual relationships.

I thought you just told us that Jesus started the institution of marriage between a man and a woman? Now we’re back to 5000+ years?[/quote]

That is certainly not what I said. Please reread that particular post. You are once again confused, or deliberately trying to twist the facts. I prefer to believe that you are confused.

I will be glad to straighten you out relative to the Old Testament version of marriage. However, you must first answer the question that I have asked regarding polygamy and incest.

You don’t want to go near that one do you?

:slight_smile:

1911

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
But I do wish you happiness…at least as much as you are capable of having without marrying your male lover.

If you wished me happiness, you would support my marriage to someone I love. As I’ve already shown you, gay marriage has proven to have numerous social benefits…despite your catastrophizing to the contrary.[/quote]

I’m sorry but you have not proven even one of your points. You seem to be all about emotion and demands. And that, as you have seen, gets you no where in this debate. Not at a state or national level and not even in an Internet exchange.

1912

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
The fact is, their behavior, not unlike your own, is dangerous.

You ignored my question. Not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic.[/quote]

I clearly pointed out how you twisted my comparison.

I stated that “alcholics” have an unhealthy lifestyle. I never made mention of anyone who drinks alcohol. If you are a homosexual you are in fact invovled in a very dangerous act and lifestyle.

See the comparison now?

Probably not huh?

That’s a shame…

1913

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Do you want Polygamists and those who practice incest to have the right to marry too? Or is it just your rights that you are concerned about?

people are entitled to freedom and happiness as long as they aren’t hurting others in the process.

I think polygamy and incest should be held against that same standard. If polygamy or incest inherently and inevitably damage people, then they shouldn’t be sanctioned through marriage. Otherwise, they should be allowed. [/quote]

Now tell me do you think that polygamy and incest hurt anyone? And if so how are they harmful?

1914

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
But you are not guaranteed the right to marry another man!

You enjoy the right to marry the person you love. I don’t. That is discrimination, no matter how you spin it.

[/quote]

What a joke. You did marry the person you love - then you divorced her. No spinning around it and no discrimination.

Honestly, do the arguments from this guy ever change?

“Oh, I am so oppressed. I am so void of basic human rights. I can not even get married.”

Pathetic.

1915

[quote]ZEB wrote:
That is no more discrimination than it is for a man in his forties to be denied the right to join the Army. But at the same time a man who is 19 years old has that right.
[/quote]

By your rationalization, blacks should never have been allowed to marry whites. After all, there are preconditions to meeting certain rights, so clearly there is nothing wrong with making white skin a precondition.

Now do you see why your army analogy flops? Being straight is not a valid precondition to marrying the person you love. There are many benefits to society from marriage, regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple (see the facts on gay marriage provided earlier).

1916

[quote]ZEB wrote:
That is certainly not what I said. Please reread that particular post.
[/quote]

I reread it, and it still sounds to me like you were claiming that marriage between a man and a woman began with Jesus. Please clarify if you meant otherwise.

And enlighten us on how Abraham’s untraditional marriage was acceptable (despite happening during the 5000+ years of traditional marriage which you insist must never be changed).

1917

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m sorry but you have not proven even one of your points.[/quote]

I noticed that you conveniently ignored these facts earlier. Here they are again, should you choose to read them this time:

[b]“The opposite occurred: After 1989, the marriage rate increased, the divorce rate fell and the rate of childbirths outside of marriage declined for the first time in decades.”

“Moreover, allowing same-sex couples to marry has a number of positive benefits. We interviewed a variety of Danish couples who had registered as partners. They told us how their legal unions deepened their commitment to each other, helped legally protect the children they were raising, enriched their relationships with family members and co-workers, and educated the community.”

“Our book documents the numerous social and community benefits from Scandinavian recognition of lesbian and gay partnerships. Because marriage and partnership serve private social welfare functions, legal recognition stands to save the state money. Recognition helps integrate lesbian and gay families into the larger society and helps attract productive workers to the country.”

“We also found that partnership recognition contributed to the success of Scandinavian programs to prevent AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases.”
[/b]

1918

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I never made mention of anyone who drinks alcohol. If you are a homosexual you are in fact invovled in a very dangerous act and lifestyle.
[/quote]

Oh, I thought you pointed out earlier that according to the CDC at least 40% of gays don’t even practice anal sex. Now you’re claiming that ALL gays are living a very dangerous lifestyle?

By the way, the alcohol analogy stands even under such a ridiculous claim. A single drink of alcohol still does damage to your body. Would you therefore advocate making alcohol (and cigarettes and trans fats and…) illegal?

1919

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Now tell me do you think that polygamy and incest hurt anyone? And if so how are they harmful?
[/quote]

I don’t know the answer to that question. I would recommend looking at any existing objective data to make that determination, and let that drive public policy accordingly.

1920

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
“Oh, I am so oppressed. I am so void of basic human rights. I can not even get married.”

Pathetic. [/quote]

Your compassion knows no bounds…Jesus would be proud.

1921

[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
“Oh, I am so oppressed. I am so void of basic human rights. I can not even get married.”

Pathetic.

Your compassion knows no bounds…Jesus would be proud.

[/quote]

I thought you didn’t care what Jesus thinks.

Just becausue you’ve got the same old weak, tired argument that gets battered down, you get all sad. Your constant failure to grasp simple facts is even more pathetic.

1922

[quote]forlife wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
“Oh, I am so oppressed. I am so void of basic human rights. I can not even get married.”

Pathetic.

Your compassion knows no bounds…Jesus would be proud.

[/quote]

Sometimes in life compassion is measured by one’s non-acceptance of things or lifestyles that are known to be destructive to those that engage in them.

So sometimes the compassionate thing to do is to stand up against legitimization of a self-destructive lifestyle for the good of those involved whether they realize it or not.

1923

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
I thought you didn’t care what Jesus thinks.
[/quote]

Never said that I did. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of someone that claims to follow Jesus while mocking and hating others.

1924

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Sometimes in life compassion is measured by one’s non-acceptance of things or lifestyles that are known to be destructive to those that engage in them.
[/quote]

That line is how bigots have justified their actions for millenia. They always claim to be acting in the best interests of society. In reality, they are doing damage to people.

The basis for your “knowledge” comes from your religious beliefs, whether you admit it or not. You are absolutely convinced that your particular brand of religion is correct, and nobody can tell you otherwise. Therefore, you feel justified in condemning everyone that doesn’t see the world as you do.

I know your mindset. I used to be like you.

1925

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
That is no more discrimination than it is for a man in his forties to be denied the right to join the Army. But at the same time a man who is 19 years old has that right.

By your rationalization, blacks should never have been allowed to marry whites. After all, there are preconditions to meeting certain rights, so clearly there is nothing wrong with making white skin a precondition.[/quote]

You once again forgot about the single most important factor which makes y our argument null and void:

GENETICS!

Once again:

Women = genetic

Black = genetic

Homosexual = An action

1926

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m sorry but you have not proven even one of your points.

I noticed that you conveniently ignored these facts earlier. Here they are again, should you choose to read them this time:

[b]“The opposite occurred: After 1989, the marriage rate increased, the divorce rate fell and the rate of childbirths outside of marriage declined for the first time in decades.”

“Moreover, allowing same-sex couples to marry has a number of positive benefits. We interviewed a variety of Danish couples who had registered as partners. They told us how their legal unions deepened their commitment to each other, helped legally protect the children they were raising, enriched their relationships with family members and co-workers, and educated the community.”

“Our book documents the numerous social and community benefits from Scandinavian recognition of lesbian and gay partnerships. Because marriage and partnership serve private social welfare functions, legal recognition stands to save the state money. Recognition helps integrate lesbian and gay families into the larger society and helps attract productive workers to the country.”

[/b][/quote]

Please don’t play the role of pompous ass.

All you have done on this thread since you entered it was disregard every single statistic that I posted!

Remember this statistic from the CDC? 65% of all new HIV positive cases are from homosexual men. I posted it many many times, and you basically ignored it.

But that’s really only the beginning. You have ignored every statistic that I have posted.

Here are more “fun facts” regarding what homosexuals in general think of monogamy:

Homosexual Promiscuity. Studies indicate that the average male homosexual has hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:

"? A.P. Bell and M.S. Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having 1,000 or more sex partners.[9]

? In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al., found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. The most common response, given by 21.6 percent of the respondents, was of having a hundred-one to five hundred lifetime sex partners.[10]

? A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than a hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than a thousand sexual partners.[11]

? In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, M. Pollak found that “few homosexual relationships last longer than two years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners.”[12]

Promiscuity among Homosexual Couples. Even in those homosexual relationships in which the partners consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, the meaning of “committed” typically means something radically different from marriage.

? In The Male Couple, authors David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison reported that in a study of a hundred-fifty-six males in homosexual relationships lasting from one to thirty-seven years,

Only seven couples have a totally exclusive sexual relationship, and these men all have been together for less than five years. Stated another way, all couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships.[13]
? In Male and Female Homosexuality, M. Saghir and E. Robins found that the average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between two and three years.[14]"

Now do what you do best: Close your eyes, place your index fingers in your ears and say “la la la la la.”

1927

[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I never made mention of anyone who drinks alcohol. If you are a homosexual you are in fact invovled in a very dangerous act and lifestyle.

Oh, I thought you pointed out earlier that according to the CDC at least 40% of gays don’t even practice anal sex. Now you’re claiming that ALL gays are living a very dangerous lifestyle?

By the way, the alcohol analogy stands even under such a ridiculous claim. A single drink of alcohol still does damage to your body. Would you therefore advocate making alcohol (and cigarettes and trans fats and…) illegal?[/quote]

The homosexual act and the homosexual lifestyle are dangerous!

That you won’t admit this shows your determination to do whatever you want regardless of facts.

You left your “faith” for homosexuality!

You left your family for homosexuality!

And now you leave your good sense and reason behind…FOR HOMOSEXUALITY!

Here are more facts for those still reading the thread and interested:

"Unhealthy Aspects of “Monogamous” Homosexual Relationships. Even those homosexual relationships that are loosely termed “monogamous” do not necessarily result in healthier behavior.

(WHAT? EVEN THOSE USING CONDOMS ARE SPREADING DISEASE? oh my…)

? The journal AIDS reported that men involved in relationships engaged in anal intercourse and oral-anal intercourse with greater frequency than those without a steady partner.[15] Anal intercourse has been linked to a host of bacterial and parasitical sexually transmitted diseases, including AIDS.

? The exclusivity of the relationship did not diminish the incidence of unhealthy sexual acts, which are commonplace among homosexuals. An English study published in the same issue of the journal AIDS concurred, finding that most “unsafe” sex acts among homosexuals occur in steady relationships.[16]"

There is always this to look forward to as well:)

"Anal Cancer: Homosexuals are at increased risk for this rare type of cancer, which is potentially fatal if the anal-rectal tumors metastasize to other bodily organs.

? Dr. Joel Palefsky, a leading expert in the field of anal cancer, reports that while the incidence of anal cancer in the United States is only 0.9/100,000, that number soars to 35/100,000 for homosexuals. That rate doubles again for those who are HIV positive, which, according to Dr. Palefsky, is “roughly ten times higher than the current rate of cervical cancer.”[49]

? At the Fourth International AIDS Malignancy Conference at the National Institutes of Health in May, 2000, Dr. Andrew Grulich announced that the incidence of anal cancer among homosexuals with HIV “was raised 37-fold compared with the general population.[50]”

GAY BOWEL SYNDROME ANYONE?

"Gay Bowel Syndrome (GBS):[32] The Journal of the American Medical Association refers to GBS problems such as proctitis, proctocolitis, and enteritis as “sexually transmitted gastrointestinal syndromes.”[33] Many of the bacterial and protozoa pathogens that cause gbs are found in feces and transmitted to the digestive system: According to the pro-homosexual text Anal Pleasure and Health, “[s]exual activities provide many opportunities for tiny amounts of contaminated feces to find their way into the mouth of a sexual partner . . . The most direct route is oral-anal contact.”[34]

? Proctitis and Proctocolitis are inflammations of the rectum and colon that cause pain, bloody rectal discharge and rectal spasms. Proctitis is associated with STDs such as gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, and syphilis that are widespread among homosexuals.[35] The Sexually Transmitted Disease Information Center of the Journal of the American Medical Association reports that “[p]roctitis occurs predominantly among persons who participate in anal intercourse.”

? Enteritis is inflammation of the small intestine. According to the Sexually Transmitted Disease Information Center of the Journal of the American Medical Association, “enteritis occurs among those whose sexual practices include oral-fecal contact.”[36] Enteritis can cause abdominal pain, severe cramping, intense diarrhea, fever, malabsorption of nutrients, weight loss.[37] According to a report in The Health Implications of Homosexuality by the Medical Institute for Sexual Health, some pathogens associated with enteritis and proctocolitis [see below] “appear only to be sexually transmitted among men who have sex with men.[38]”

Very sad indeed.