[quote]ZEB wrote:
Matters not if you are Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist or whatever, the homosexual act is dangerous and the lifestyle that many partake simply adds to that danger.
[/quote]
Please define “the homosexual act”. Because again, if you are talking about anal sex, a) it is also a “heterosexual act”, b) not all gays enjoy anal sex, and c) anal sex with common sense precautions is perfectly safe.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
LOL…and my uncle Harry drank two six packs per day of Beer until the day he died at the age of 97.[/quote]
Your analogy is flawed. There is a pretty strong probability that high alcohol consumption will have negative health effects. However, the same is not true for safe anal sex. As long as common sense precautions are used, the probability of negative health effects is almost nil.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
No society, nowhere has ever before the recent events in Europe, Canada, and now in the US, has ever considered homosexuality normal or equal. [/quote]
Have you ever heard of the Greek civilization?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
You have obviously first decided what you will believe. You are a homosexual, therefore you will not look at any data which demonstrates the homosexual act (or lifestyle) to be dangerous.[/quote]
Lol…funny from someone that admitted a few posts back that he was biased. I could as easily say:
Zeb,
It’s simply not fair to keep beating other guys over the head with facts, figures, studies, results of medical research, and so forth! 
Refusing to accept facts and to continue living in fantasyland is ‘Brokeback’.
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I ask again, how many heterosexual men can become aroused and actually have sex with another man?
Kinsey surveyed approximately 5,300 white males and found that nearly 46% of the male population had engaged in both heterosexual and homosexual activities.
So if 5% of the male population is gay, that means nearly 41% of straight men have had sex with other men at some time in their lives.
If you don’t think straight men are every curious or aroused by other men, check out your local prison or military base.[/quote]
I’ve admonished you before for using “Kinsey” as a legitimate source of information. However, it does not surprise me that you would try it again.
Kinsey said that 10% of the population was “gay.” Every single study after that has stated that no more than 1% to 3% are the correct numbers. The most liberal, politically correct researchers who have an agenda claim only 4%.
But even Kinsey can’t help you out this time!
You stated:
“…nearly 46% of the male population had engaged in both heterosexual and homosexual activities.”
The “male population” meaning homosexuals as well as heterosexuals?
No matter, the Kinsey “studies” have been disproved by everyone who has ever attempted to repeat them.
In fact, some call his “studies” the “Crime of the Century!”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/01-04-99/kinsey.htm
And claiming that those in prison are more likely to participate in a homosexual act is mighty brave of you! LOL…gee ya think?
Tell me were the 87% of homosexuals who claim they had sex with a woman incarcerated in female prison camps?
Noooooo.
LMAO…you are killing me with this stuff and also making your argument look even more feeble than it already is.
Why is it so difficult to come up with an answer as to why 87% of male homosexuals have had sex with a female?
How about this: they enjoyed sex with both genders but liked males more?
Sort of kills the “born that way” lie huh?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
It’s simply not fair to keep beating other guys over the head with facts, figures, studies, results of medical research, and so forth! ;)[/quote]
Especially when those results are handpicked (some from studies shown to be flawed), and are directly contradicted by the definitive conclusions of every major medical and mental health organization.
I have yet to hear a rational explanation for this contradiction. Zeb likes to accuse the American Psychological Association as being “politically motivated” (as if Narth is not). But he hasn’t yet explained why all of the other major medical and mental health organizations (American Medical Association, American Pediatric Association, World Health Organization, American Psychological Association, American Association of Social Workers, etc.) agrees with them.
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Please define “the homosexual act”.[/quote]
Anal sex, which according to most quality studies is the single most prevelant form of sex between two homosexual men.
No I can’t imagine they will “enjoy it” for long. It seems that those who have it also have a significantly higher rate of the following:
HIV
STD’s
Bowel Perforation (with or without a condom)
Anal cancer
Most communicable disease’s
And much, much more…
Oh darn you forgot to read this again:
NO SUCH THING AS PERFECTLY SAFE ANAL SEX!
If you build in enough provisions you can make anything safer. But what does that really mean? Are you doing something that is inherently safe, or harmful? Obviously it’s harmful. Whenever we use something that was not designed by nature (what I meant to say was God but didn’t want to offend your sensitive nature) for that purpose we are opening up an unhealthy can of worms.
Why do you think that 66% of all new AIDS cases are homosexual men?
Do you think because the act of sticking your penis in someones rectum is safe, clean and healthy?
This is from the University of California Santa Barbara. You know that right wing group controlled by fundamental Christians…Oh no wait I guess that’s not the case at all. Just more evidence that the male on male primary sex act is an unsafe one:
"…For this reason, anal sex is the riskiest form of sexual activity when it comes to the transmission of HIV/AIDS. Tiny tears in the anal tissue are like giant superhighways for the HIV viruses, allowing them to get inside the body and enter the blood system. Anal tears provide an opening for all the other STDs as well. It may be possible for repetitive anal sex to lead to weakening of the anal sphincter, which is the muscle that tightens after we defecate. Once weakened, feces can escape the anus against our will.
(Try to look on the bright side, after a lifetime of pounding you will be able to fart in public and no one will even hear it 
We know that not wearing a condom exposes you to HIV, STD’s and a host of other contagious diseases to numerous to mention.
However, how many realize that even when wearing a condom anal sex is dangerous?
"…anal sex is the riskiest form of sexual activity because the skin inside the anus is highly susceptible to tearing, which can create openings for viruses and bacteria to enter the body.
Translation: Even if you wear a condom you can still create tiny tears in your partners rectum.
And of course it’s not “just” tiny tears you have to worry about. Many other things can happen even if you do wear a condom.
Homosexuals have a far higher rate of anal cancer than the general population?
Now why do you suppose that is? It’s starting to look like the anus/rectum is not meant as a sperm depository…huh?
Here are more facts which you will hopefully learn from:
"In the general population anal cancer is fairly rare; about one in 100,000 people.
In men who have sex with men, the incidence climbs to about 35 in 100,000.
35 times greater in the homosexual population than in the heterosexual population.
Coincidence? I think not.
MSM who are HIV positive are twice as likely to get anal cancer than MSM who are HIV negative."
It’s not something that you want to get that’s for sure:
“One of the things that makes anal cancer so dangerous is that many people who have it show few or no symptoms prior to diagnosis.”
[quote]forlife wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Lol…funny from someone that admitted a few posts back that he was biased. I could as easily say:
[/quote]
Actually, that was a comment regarding my conservate (vs liberal) ideas in general. Not on a per topic basis. Get it?
What you rationalize away is that all the evidence points to homosexuals having far more disease, and emotional health problems.
Along with the stunning information from the CDC: “66% of all new HIV cases are homosexual men.”
It almost seems that if there were no homosexual activity there would not really be an AIDS problem…huh?
You see that’s the stuff that you just can’t get your arms around…by any logical means that is.
But keep trying…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Refusing to accept facts and to continue living in fantasyland is ‘Brokeback’.[/quote]
I know Headhunter, forlife refuses to cloud the issue with facts and figures. He’d much rather play make believe…It would be soooo politically correct to accept his bull crap. But I think he was due for some reality.
Should we waste more cyberspace by repeating ourselves ad infinitum?
Sexual Health InfoCenter:
[quote]Anal sex is not experienced exclusively by gay men; it is a facet of our collective sexual identity which has been explored by previous cultures and continues to be explored today. Men and women of all walks of life enjoy anal sex as an alternative to everyday lovemaking. Its not for everyone, but anal sex may be what you’re looking for if you want to try something completely different…
Anal sex can be a perfectly safe activity as long as you take the necessary precautions.
[/quote]
Jack Morin, PhD, author of Anal Pleasure and Health: A Guide for Men and Women:
According to Dr John Dean (specialist in sexual medicine) and Dr David Delvin, GP and family planning specialist:
[quote]There is a common misconception that anal sex is practised almost exclusively by gay men. This is certainly not the case. An estimated one third of gay couples do not include anal intercourse in their lovemaking. About one third of heterosexual couples try it from time to time.
It is thought that about 10 per cent of heterosexual couples have anal intercourse as a regular feature of their lovemaking. In absolute numbers, more heterosexual couples have anal sex than homosexual couples.[/quote]
Let me just repeat that last line for emphasis:
So by your logic, I should be saying that heterosexuality is dangerous, since more heterosexuals than gays engage in anal sex!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Actually, that was a comment regarding my conservate (vs liberal) ideas in general. Not on a per topic basis. Get it?[/quote]
And of COURSE your conservative ideas in general would have no bearing on your views of homosexuality. Lol!
Again, you refer to “homosexuals” as a stereotypical category instead of understanding that any health problems you cite are not directly due to homosexuality.
If gays are, on average, less likely to use condoms than heterosexuals, does that mean homosexuality is inherently dangerous? Of course not. It only means that gays need to exercise due diligence in practicing safe sex.
Preach against unsafe sex, but quit preaching against homosexuality. The two are not one and the same.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Should we waste more cyberspace by repeating ourselves ad infinitum?
[/quote]
No…just until you understand that there is no safe way to insert your penis in someones rectum without taking a very large risk that the delicate rectal tissue could easily be torn leading to a host of very serious health consequences!
In addition to that you are damaging the anus each time you perform the act.
And both of those negative things and even more take place whether you wear a condom or not!
I know you are an enlightened politically correct wonder boy, but you are not going to get away with distorting the truth and spreading the homosexual agenda of lies, sorry.
Here read it until you actually understand it:
If you build in enough provisions you can make anything safer. But what does that really mean? Are you doing something that is inherently safe, or harmful? Obviously it’s harmful. Whenever we use something that was not designed by nature (what I meant to say was God but didn’t want to offend your sensitive nature) for that purpose we are opening up an unhealthy can of worms.
Why do you think that 66% of all new AIDS cases are homosexual men?
Do you think because the act of sticking your penis in someones rectum is safe, clean and healthy?
This is from the University of California Santa Barbara. You know that right wing group controlled by fundamental Christians…Oh no wait I guess that’s not the case at all. Just more evidence that the male on male primary sex act is an unsafe one:
"…For this reason, anal sex is the riskiest form of sexual activity when it comes to the transmission of HIV/AIDS. Tiny tears in the anal tissue are like giant superhighways for the HIV viruses, allowing them to get inside the body and enter the blood system. Anal tears provide an opening for all the other STDs as well. It may be possible for repetitive anal sex to lead to weakening of the anal sphincter, which is the muscle that tightens after we defecate. Once weakened, feces can escape the anus against our will.
(Try to look on the bright side, after a lifetime of pounding you will be able to fart in public and no one will even hear it
We know that not wearing a condom exposes you to HIV, STD’s and a host of other contagious diseases to numerous to mention.
However, how many realize that even when wearing a condom anal sex is dangerous?
"…anal sex is the riskiest form of sexual activity because the skin inside the anus is highly susceptible to tearing, which can create openings for viruses and bacteria to enter the body.
Translation: Even if you wear a condom you can still create tiny tears in your partners rectum.
And of course it’s not “just” tiny tears you have to worry about. Many other things can happen even if you do wear a condom.
Homosexuals have a far higher rate of anal cancer than the general population?
Now why do you suppose that is? It’s starting to look like the anus/rectum is not meant as a sperm depository…huh?
Here are more facts which you will hopefully learn from:
"In the general population anal cancer is fairly rare; about one in 100,000 people.
In men who have sex with men, the incidence climbs to about 35 in 100,000.
35 times greater in the homosexual population than in the heterosexual population.
Coincidence? I think not.
MSM who are HIV positive are twice as likely to get anal cancer than MSM who are HIV negative."It’s not something that you want to get that’s for sure:
“One of the things that makes anal cancer so dangerous is that many people who have it show few or no symptoms prior to diagnosis.”
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
This thread is heading in the wrong direction. Excuse me for being so blunt, but this debate has nothing to do with homosexual rights or if homosexual or heterosexual sex is more or less safe.
Once again we are in the realm of “What Is Absolute Truth?” I know people will start throwing things at their computer screens, but think about it.
The debate is whether or not this so-called movie has as its ulterior motive, an indoctrination of society to accept the homoxexual lifestyle as both “normal” and “equal” to the heteroxexual lifestyle.
This debate has nothing to do with what people do in the privacy of their homes, etc. Actually, they can do whatever they wish in their bedrooms. I may not like it or condone it, but this is the U.S. after all.
What this debate boils down to is that the intent of movies like this and messages like this is to further the breakdown of the FUNDAMENTAL UNIT IN OUR SOCIETY, namely, THE FAMILY.
For if the homosexual lifestyle becomes “normal” and “equal” to that of heterosexuals, then homosexual families, homosexual gym teachers, homosexual sports events, school clubs, etc. become the norm of society. This flies in the face of the entire human experience thus far to date. No society, nowhere has ever before the recent events in Europe, Canada, and now in the US, has ever considered homosexuality normal or equal.
To further breakdown the family unit in this country, will further erode the moral compass that we have already lost. In short, we are morally doomed and this is what the debate is about.
Again, for those who will flame me, let me be clear on the following points:
a) I don’t “hate” Gay people. God loves all people, and as His follower I must also. I just don’t agree with their choices, and do not want to be forced to officially recognize their aberrant behavior.
b) I am not saying that people cannot love whomever they wish and have sex with whomever they wish (although we do have laws limiting sex to certain age limits, family relationships, etc).
c) My main point is if you are “gay” then be ‘gay.’ Just leave me out of it. [/quote]
Yes, this thread has gotten off course. Given the nature of the subject, I am not surprised. It serves no purpose continuing the debate in this direction as this debate has already been done at T-Nation.
As for the original intent of the thread, I think any reasonable and objective observer can see that Brokeback Mountain has a hidden agenda.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Again, you refer to “homosexuals” as a stereotypical category instead of understanding that any health problems you cite are not directly due to homosexuality.[/quote]
You know I agree with you on this point.
If someone wants to declare themselevs a homosexual, there is not one dangerous consquence related to that. However, if they act on this “desire” by having anal sex they are now in danger and also placing their partner in danger, and that IS A FACT!
I’ll assume that you simply missed this fact when I posted it 5 or 6 times in various ways:
There is no safe way to insert your penis in someones rectum without taking a very large risk that the delicate rectal tissue could easily be torn leading to a host of very serious health consequences! In addition to this the anus is also at risk as it is not meant to actually take something in, only to push things out. (like crap for example. :). There is a reason that gays have an anal cancer rate of 35 times higher than heterosexuals!
And are you ready for this?
ALL OF THAT HAPPENS WHETHER YOU USE A CONDOM ON OR NOT!
I want you to think of the above information the next time…
As stated above there is no “safe sex” when it comes to anal penetration.
THE TWO ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!
And I have given much data to support this claim. What you have to do is prove that the lining of the rectum is actually thick enough to handle any sort of penetration in a safe manner. And then you must prove that it can take this “pounding” over and over and over again.
You must also refute the statistic on anal cancer.
Speak directly to those issues. Show clear cut eveidence that these things are untrue. Since you will not find such evidence I suggest you stop making yourself look foolish.
If you want to be a homosexual, go be one, it’s your right. But you cannot rationalize the dangers away on this forum…NOT HAPPENING!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
No…just until you understand that there is no safe way to insert your penis in someones rectum without taking a very large risk that the delicate rectal tissue could easily be torn leading to a host of very serious health consequences!
In addition to that you are damaging the anus each time you perform the act.[/quote]
Wrong. Anal sex is only dangerous if you don’t take necessary precautions. You have yet to address the quotes that I provided earlier:
Sexual Health InfoCenter:
Jack Morin, PhD, author of Anal Pleasure and Health: A Guide for Men and Women:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Preach against unsafe sex, but quit preaching against homosexuality. The two are not one and the same.
Zeb wrote:
THE TWO ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!
And I have given much data to support this claim.[/quote]
You haven’t given a single statistic to support the claim that homosexuality is identical to unsafe sex. If that were the case, every homosexual would practice unsafe sex. Are you actually claiming that now? You do realize that being gay and practicing unsafe sex aren’t one and the same right?
I’m also curious about your answer to the fact that MORE HETEROSEXUALS PRACTICE ANAL SEX THAN HOMOSEXUALS?
[quote]forlife wrote:
No physical injury from anal stimulation results if both partners refuse to tolerate pain, never use force…
[/quote]
You are a very seriously misled young man and I am beginning to actually feel sorry for you as I think you really do believe this blather.
The thin lining of the rectum can be torn without anyone knowing about it. It has nothing to do with pain
Get the blind fold off and respond directly to the issue:
I have given much data to support this claim that anal sex with or without a condom is dangerous. What you have to do is prove that the lining of the rectum is actually thick enough to handle any sort of penetration in a safe manner. And then you must prove that it can take this “pounding” over and over and over again.
You must also refute the statistic on anal cancer.
Speak directly to those issues. Show clear cut eveidence that these things are untrue. Since you will not find such evidence I suggest you stop making yourself look foolish.
If you want to be a homosexual, go be one, it’s your right. But you cannot rationalize the dangers away on this forum…NOT HAPPENING!
[quote]forlife wrote:
forlife wrote:
Preach against unsafe sex, but quit preaching against homosexuality. The two are not one and the same.
Zeb wrote:
THE TWO ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!
And I have given much data to support this claim.
You haven’t given a single statistic to support the claim that homosexuality is identical to unsafe sex. If that were the case, every homosexual would practice unsafe sex. Are you actually claiming that now? You do realize that being gay and practicing unsafe sex aren’t one and the same right?[/quote]
I’ve always claimed, and the statistics will back me up, that any sort of anal sex is dangerous.
If you use a condom you cannot eliminate the many risks as I stated above.
If you do not use a condom you are simply adding to your risks. Either way, it’s not safe!
[quote]I’m also curious about your answer to the fact that MORE HETEROSEXUALS PRACTICE ANAL SEX THAN HOMOSEXUALS?
[/quote]
Show me the statistic. Where did you read it? Post a link.