Psst…(waves “for” in closer) It’s because we are on opposite sides of the fence on this one kid and we are not going to change…Soooooo.[/quote]
I know you’re talking to forlife here, but allow me to chime in:
There’s nothing wrong with you disagreeing with the concept of gay marriage.
What is wrong is promoting a verifiably harmful bias in the legal code of your country [1] based on refutable (gay marriage causes gay!) or irrelevant (but some gays can fake being straight) or superstitious (the Bible told me to do it!) or nonsensical (gays are promiscuous so we shouldn’t encourage monogamous union) “evidence”.
[quote]I want two things: 1. People to be happy 2. For liberals and the politically correct to miss my point and mischaracterize what I am stating.
Both of those things make me happy.
Now so far you have only given me one of those…[/quote]
You sure seem to be working your ass off to make sure that neither happens.
[quote]forlife: “No they are not Zeb no one can change. I couldn’t so it can’t be done…bla bla bla…”
Zeb: Oh I forgot. I can’t Bench 400 pounds so I know no one else can either.
And I can’t walk a tight rope so I know no one else can either.
And I can’t play Baseball at the Major League level so I’m sure no one else…oh wait a minute where did all those Major League ball players come from…Hmmm…
I guess some people CAN do what I cannot do…same with you BUB.[/quote]
Cute. But do you think you could give up pussy for a decade or two? I know I couldn’t. THAT would be the corrolary of what forlife did.
Furthermore, forlife’s personal experiences are proof that “curing the gay” is not a real solution to the “problem”.
[quote]You are mentioning our private messages?
Oh my I feel violated…
LOL
Okay rules change.
And you admitted to me in a private message (as well as on the forum) that you have two kids.[/quote]
Er… I think he stated that in this thread too.
Surely your church told you about the birds and the bees once you were married?
[quote]In fact 87% of all homosexual men have said that they have had sex with women.
Odd huh?[/quote]
No, it seems like the perfect cover-up to me.
Of course they wouldn’t. They have little reason to pretend being gay.
-Glee
[1] Thankfully, I live in a country that is a little more tolerant.
Again, my sincere thanks to my brothers-in-iron out there who are willing to support equality for people different from yourself.
Currently your “brothers in Iron” are running about 70% against gay marriage.
Go figure huh?
Closed minded freaks.[/quote]
A. Yes, those who are against gay marriage could rightfully be considered ‘closed-minded freaks’.
B: 45% of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the World Trade Center attacks.
C: Sobriety is the leading cause (61%) of traffic fatalities.
[quote]Black = genetic
Women = genetic
Gay= ? (and that is being open minded. More so than your side which constantly perpetuates the big lie: “We are born that way.”
If we give special rights to your group why not others who are not genetically different?[/quote]
Again, there is plenty of proof that homosexuality IS genetic. However, it is not exclusively genetic. Nor is being black – read the book “Black Like Me” (or lie in the sun for a while) sometime.
Slippery slope fallacy: irrelevant.
Um… why?
Yeah, I can’t believe the audacity of that asshole, calling people names!
But seriously, harris may have employed name-calling, but he was/is quite pithy about it.
[quote]And you have made better points than anyone that I have ever seen who represents your side of the argument.
I think if everyone on your side were as intelligent as you are then gay marriage would probably be assured quite soon.
Thankfully most are not. They are still at the level of name calling and acting out emotional tirades.[/quote]
So you’re saying that if logic were to prevail, gay marriage would be made legal. How about that
[quote]ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Zeb, you still haven’t explained why your union with your wife is more legitimate than a gay couple’s.
Nor have I explained why it’s more legitimate than an incestuous relationship, or a polygamist relationship, or a man and dogs relationship, or a lamp and a womens relationship, and any number of wacky relationships…
[/quote]
If your position is so strong, why do you feel the need to dodge this question?
[quote]Gleemonex wrote:
ZEB wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Zeb, you still haven’t explained why your union with your wife is more legitimate than a gay couple’s.
Nor have I explained why it’s more legitimate than an incestuous relationship, or a polygamist relationship, or a man and dogs relationship, or a lamp and a womens relationship, and any number of wacky relationships…
If your position is so strong, why do you feel the need to dodge this question?
-Glee[/quote]
Ha ha there’s no answer that you are going to be happy with.
Really…what’s the point? If I have to actually explain to you why marriage between a man and women is more important that let’s say a chipmunk and a monkey…well…let’s just forget it
Really…what’s the point? If I have to actually explain to you why marriage between a man and women is more important that let’s say a chipmunk and a monkey…well…let’s just forget it :)[/quote]
Oh, I’ve hit a nerve. Now I’m definitely not going to forget it. Allow me to spell it out:
The challenge is for you to put forth a valid definition of “marriage” that rightfully excludes homosexuals on a logical basis.
Let’s give you a bit of a boost to start: chipmunks aren’t recognisably sentient.
You missed the central theme there buddy…go back and look again.[/quote]
The central theme there was judgement. Prof blamed you, you were unable to refute it so you blamed him back, he refuted it, you partially attacked that refutation. So Prof is judgemental, you’re more judgemental. The difference being that Prof doesn’t go on and on about how he lives a pious lifestyle and then proceed to hold it above everyone’s head.
Hey Zeb, just curious if you might have any scientific references for your judgments on my life, outside of your subjective religious beliefs? I mean…I don’t engage in risky sexual practices, do drugs, or drink a lot of alcohol…but surely you’re aware of some objective evidence for why I am destined to a miserable existence?
Of course, you don’t seem to know what my existence was like while married (or perhaps you’ve just forgotten my descriptions in earlier posts). Nor do you know what my existence is like now. Nor can you look into a crystal ball and know what my existence will be like in another 20 years. But that’s irrelevant, right? You’re certain that I would be happier if I went back to my marriage. You know for a fact that I made a mistake by leaving it.
Your omniscience is impressive! Because you see, my wife and I spent years discussing, researching, and counseling on how to resolve our mixed marriage. And we MUTUALLY decided that divorce was the wisest option. Yes, it was painful. But we were convinced then that our decision was the right one. Two years later, we are equally convinced that we made the right choice. Maybe I should go back to her and explain that the Oracle of Zeb has spoken, and declared that we would be happier if were together? Alas, I don’t think she would be convinced.
The truth is that life is pretty good for us these days. I’m a much happier, more integrated person. My ex-wife and I continue to be friends. My children are healthy and well-adjusted. I have stayed close to them, and I’m looking forward to spending this weekend with them. Not to shock you further, but my children actually know that I am gay! gasp At 5 and 7, they realize that they have a gay daddy…and worse, they are ok with it. Can you imagine?
In all seriousness, I truly hope that some day, you will have the maturity and humility to descend from your pedestal and realize that you don’t have the answers for everyone else’s life. Personal learning and growth is impossible until you recognize that the only person you can truly change is yourself.
I have read many posts where Prof simply gives his advice when the question was unrelated to how much they should eat.
Want to see them? [/quote]
No thanks Zeb. You have proven yourself very poor at interpreting the meaning of a conversation or even a study from which you extract various details.
The issue of whether a post is unrelated gets very tricky in the body building arena, because there is both a specific purpose to this site and most bodybuilding questions are in fact related to goals and nutrition.
You missed the central theme there buddy…go back and look again.
The central theme there was judgement. Prof blamed you, you were unable to refute it so you blamed him back, he refuted it, you partially attacked that refutation. [/quote]
I refuted it by stating that
A. I do not judge people just actions (see post to forlife, “good man, bad decision.”)
B. And I pointed out where Prof was the one who judges.
I would love to hear you explain EACH and every one. I believe a valid explanation why it is more legitimate than a man and dogs side by side with what it sure to be a weak explanation of why it is more legitimate than a gay couple’s will showcase the weakness of your argument and position. This should not be difficult for you to do and would lend you much credibility.
It also goes to the very root of your asssertions. If you can’t demonstrate that it’s NOT more legitimate then it very like is NOT more legitimate, and there is no reason why there should not be civil unions.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Hey Zeb, just curious if you might have any scientific references for your judgments on my life, outside of your subjective religious beliefs? [/quote]
I made my “judgements” on your actions based upon what you told me. If you left out a large amount of data that you might want to share right now then my determination may change.
As I have already stated, you left your children. I think that was a bad decision.
How much of a pat on the back do you want because you use a rubber when you engage in homosexual sex?
I mean…be a man and go take care of your family.
You had the kids now raise them!
Yep! Any man that leaves his kids, especially at such young ages, has made a poor decision.
You can slice it any way you want.
And your desire to win my approval is flattering. But, it won’t be happening in this lifetime, unless you return to your wife and children that is.
Yea, I understood that the first time you said it several posts back.
I understood it then and I understand it now. That is not the issue.
As I have stated, you left your two small children and that was a very bad decision. And I believe that in 20 years time (probably sooner) you will regret all of the lost years that you could have spent with your children. And you can post 1000 more times and that won’t change what you did from wrong to right.
You are cool only in the PC world. In the real world you messed up big time.
Maybe, then again maybe you could go on living life as a homosexual seperated from your children (as a live in father). The choice is always yours my friend. Choose wisely as there is no time machine for a “redo.”
The first 3 or 4 times you said, “life was good” I believed you. At this point I think you are trying to convince yourself that “life is good.”
After all if life is so freaking good why are you trying to convince me? Just go and have a ball.
Oh and by the way, I’m glad you are a “more intergrated person.” Explain that one to junior someday and see if he buys it, I’m not!
(shaking head) You are a beauty! I really mean that!
At 5 and 7 they barely know how to tie their shoes and you have hung that around their necks.
Um…they don’t get it “Dad.” And when they do get it they might not be so excited about it.
Keep this in mind: You left them to be with other homosexuals.
I’m not sure that will give them a warm fuzzy when they look back.
And I’m glad they’re “healthy” but keep in mind it’s a long and winding road…
…and in the middle of the night you won’t be there.
When they need help with their homework, you won’t be there!
When they have a loose tooth you won’t be there!
When they learn to ride a bicycle you won’t be there!
If you think that NOT raising your own children will not leave them and you scarred THINK AGAIN.
I’ve seem this act and it does not play well over time. Matters not if you are gay or straight.
You know pal, there’s a whole lot I don’t know about life and I’m willing to admit that right now.
But, I do know that having two children (ages 5 & 7) and running out on them is WRONG!
Common sense my friend. I hope it dawns on you soon.
But I thought you coudn’t change yourself? Althought thousands of homosexuals have changed.
Think it over, you can’t have time back that is lost. How much do you think that homosexual affair(s) that you are involved in right now will mean 20 years down the road as opposed to actually living with and raising your two children?
You had the kids now go be a father to them. You will never regret it.
I have read many posts where Prof simply gives his advice when the question was unrelated to how much they should eat.
Want to see them?
No thanks Zeb. You have proven yourself very poor at interpreting the meaning of a conversation or even a study from which you extract various details.[/quote]
And you have proven yourself a long time liberal who will stick his face into any post that he can and take the liberal stance.
This one is no exception.
Keep it up buddy you are at least as predictable as I am.
You missed the central theme there buddy…go back and look again.
The central theme there was judgement. Prof blamed you, you were unable to refute it so you blamed him back, he refuted it, you partially attacked that refutation.
I refuted it by stating that
A. I do not judge people just actions (see post to forlife, “good man, bad decision.”)
B. And I pointed out where Prof was the one who judges.
End of story.
[/quote]
How do you judge actions to be right or wrong without a moral judgment of the person committing them? And is not presuming to tell someone how to act in a SPECIFIC situation that you have not lived through and cannot fathom as you did with forlife elevating yourself and saying that person made the wrong decisions and should’ve done this instead? What is the distinction between this and judging the person? Semantics and nothing more.
You are judging yourself superior and elevated enough above that person to make better decisions even though you don’t really know the situation nor can really understand. You are not only judging the morality of actions which can and should be done. But presuming to tell someone that you are above them and no better to them. You have the right to make moral judgments on the actions of others. You arguably have the right to express your opinion on the morality of actions and articulates God’s position on something.
I do not believe there is any legitimacy to you telling someone how to act in a specific situation that you have no experience in and do not understand. The bible speaks against homosexuality in two places. It does not tell individuals that they should continue to stay in a marriage and pretend to be heterosexual as you would have Forlife do.
That is something you, Zeb, deciding having no idea what the situation is or having lived anything remotely resembling it.
My wife and I are off to visit friends and then out to a play.
It’s a play about two gay cowboys…
Naw…just funnin with ya…
Please leave all of your complaints in a tidy pile on this thread and I will be glad to answer them tomorrow. And hopefully we can continue the conversation on right and wrong. You see they do exist…and some things are universal. Ahh…it will have to wait.
forlife, I understand that you are happy…I mean really, really happy. Stop trying to convince me or I might think you are unhappy.
Prof. Take a breather from telling people off and intimidating newbies. And write back and tell me all about how non judgemental you are.
vroom, what can I say pal. Whereever there is a liberal cause…there you are! Don’t ever change I wouldn’t recognize you.
Wow you would think that I was leaving for a week or something…It’s just that I’m going to miss you guys for the remainder of the night.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
two thirds of all new AIDS cases are homosexual men?
But what puzzles me is that if the homosexual act and lifestyle are so wonderful why is it that homosexuals have a higher rate of:
STD’s
Suicide
Anxiety
Depression
Most major diseases [/quote]
I haven’t followed the thread closely and this comment might have been made already. But Zeb, I want to say that IF the above facts are true, MOST of them can be explained by the fact that society is NOT accepting of gays and they don’t feel free expressing their sexuality. This leads to stress and anxiety, which leads to depression and possibly other deceases. Also not being able to fully accept themselves, gays engage in riskier sex as sex with a condom can’t “just happen”.
Imagine not being able to express your desire/love for women? Never. Not having “Ass worship threads”, etc. Imagine always having to hide your sexual attraction… Are you sure you would not become anxious and depressed?
Looks like you are confusing cause and effect, though none follow directly from correlation.
With all the discussions on judging, I figured this would open a few eyes to the genuine Christian definition. The impression provided here by some members seems as if humans are prohibited from criticizing or condoning certain behaviors because judging anything for that matter is wrong. But this is a grave misconception.
2 Chronicles 19
1 When Jehoshaphat king of Judah returned safely to his palace in Jerusalem, 2 Jehu the seer, the son of Hanani, went out to meet him and said to the king, “Should you help the wicked and love those who hate the LORD ? Because of this, the wrath of the LORD is upon you. 3 There is, however, some good in you, for you have rid the land of the Asherah poles and have set your heart on seeking God.”
[quote] Jehoshaphat Appoints Judges[/quote]
4 Jehoshaphat lived in Jerusalem, and he went out again among the people from Beersheba to the hill country of Ephraim and turned them back to the LORD, the God of their fathers. 5 He appointed judges in the land, in each of the fortified cities of Judah. 6 He told them, “[i]Consider carefully what you do, because you are not judging for man but for the LORD, who is with you whenever you give a verdict. 7 Now let the fear of the LORD be upon you. Judge carefully, for with the LORD our God there is no injustice or partiality or bribery.[/i]”
8 In Jerusalem also, Jehoshaphat appointed some of the Levites, priests and heads of Israelite families to administer the law of the LORD and to settle disputes. And they lived in Jerusalem. 9 He gave them these orders: "You must serve faithfully and wholeheartedly in the fear of the LORD. 10 [i]In every case that comes before you from your fellow countrymen who live in the cities - whether bloodshed or other concerns of the law, commands, decrees or ordinances - you are to warn them not to sin against the LORD; otherwise his wrath will come on you and your brothers[/i]. Do this, and you will not sin.
11 “Amariah the chief priest will be over you in any matter concerning the LORD, and Zebadiah son of Ishmael, the leader of the tribe of Judah, will be over you in any matter concerning the king, and the Levites will serve as officials before you. Act with courage, and may the LORD be with those who do well.”
22 for those two will send sudden destruction upon them, and who knows what calamities they can bring?
23 These also are sayings of the wise: [i]To show partiality in judging is not good:[/i]
24 Whoever says to the guilty, “You are innocent” - peoples will curse him and nations denounce him.
