No. If I leave my truck unlocked in a bad neighborhood, with valuables laying on the seat and someone steals them, I messed up, but the person who stole them is still a fucking thief and should be punished as such.
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It was the recommendation of a “probation officer,” who stated that “although dependent’s eligibility for probation is limited, this officer believes there are circumstances that support the granting of probation.”
She continued to note that “when compared to other crimes of similar nature” the case “may be considered less serious due to [Turner’s] level of intoxication.”
From an article about it:
California law states that a person convicted of assault with the intent to commit rape, one of the three felonies Turner was found guilty of, is not eligible for probation “except in unusual cases where the interests of justice would best be served if the person is granted probation.”
Turner is, as I read in the probation report, “youthful.” And remorseful as all fuck. Not to mention possessed of a painful level of empathy - all he can think about is the victim’s experience, as I understand it, and he can barely get out of bed. Why should he have to suffer that empathy in jail? (Note: passive-aggressive statement. lol)
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Date rape IS a terrible thing - but this wasn’t date rape. He didn’t know her name. He didn’t ASK her name. And I don’t know where you hang out with the women you date, but I’ve never been taken on a date to behind a dumpster.
So I would turn every single word of your post past the first sentence and suggest that you apply it to the young man in question.
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Precisely. She was too drunk and that was poor judgment, but that she got snared by a rapist is the reason she got raped.
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Honestly I think this is an unrealistic outlook. Unless you monitor everyone 24/7 youll always have one creepy guy (or sometimes girl) that will try to sexually assault someone. It is an unfortunate fact, about 1/3 of all the girls Im friends with have been sexually abused in some way. I think a more reasonable approach is to minimize ones risk of that happening rather than saying “it shouldn’t happen” and then proceeding to make an effort to change every rapists mind. It simply wont happen. What I don’t like is, while rape is bad, a woman in her situation wont admit she exercised poor judgement. Would you go to a party a lone with a bunch of people you don’t know and get black out drunk? Im not saying you shouldn’t be able to do that and have fun, but ask yourself if you’d make that same choice. As a guy who is on the larger size and stronger than most men of my height, I still wouldn’t put myself in that situation.
Poor drinking choices are a problem, you won’t find me disagreeing. It leaves you vulnerable to all sorts of things.
But rape is a crime and should be punished as such, PARTICULARLY in cases as clear-cut as this one is. Then maybe you won’t have to “change every rapists mind” about what he feels like doing - he will simply avoid it out of fear, as I resist going around traffic by driving up onto the yards alongside the road. I want to! But I lack the nerve required to risk a reckless endangerment charge, or whatever. It’s just easier to wait the traffic out.
I believe the victim has expressed regret for the choices she made that left her vulnerable. But she did not cause the rape. The rapist raping her caused the rape.
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I use to get pissed off when @smh_23 would tell me argument by analogy is a terrible idea. I’m starting to understand his point…
Getting stupid drunk in a bar is a dumb idea, but drinking is what you do at a bar. Wearing a KKK uniform to a predominately black area is in no way comparable to that.
You might as well of said:
“Batting your pitcher in the 4 spot is a dumb idea. I mean, I wouldn’t hire an amateur golfer to play QB for the Ravens and not expect him to suck.”
You’re a real conundrum Aero. You’ve told me before that CEOs and bankers should have gone to jail for the economic meltdown (even though you can’t name the laws they broke or even who they are), but you think the judgment of this piece of shit, that admitted to raping this girl, was the right thing?
You’re a very confusing poster.
You’re a Bernie Sanders supporter…
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Mr Stanford Rapist Brock Turner needs to meet Mr Willis :
I can’t stop myself! Previously I never spoke in anything but clear declarative statements, but now - chaos!
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I never said she caused it, but if she was more responsible it might have been avoided altogether. If the guy wasn’t a creep this would have been avoided altogether. Either way, she cant control his actions, but she can control hers. I don’t know why it is frowned upon to suggest a young woman should be smart with herself and her body. I never said what the guy did was right but I am sick of hearing this blind and mindless rhetoric that somehow she played no part in it. Is it so demanding to ask one take care of themselves?
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Hate to play devil’s advocate here… (no doubt, rape is a terrible crime)… but I’m going to anyway.
As a guy who’s gotten black out drunk, and woke up naked in the bed with women I don’t recall meeting much less copulating with (on more than one occasion), and also as a guy who frequently initiates sex while in deep sleep (read: my fiance and I “suffer” from my sexsomnia… I quote suffer because she thankfully loves it)… I say volition plays a vital role in the act of rape.
Read: I would never intentionally rape anyone, but I could see myself being brought up on similar charges–if a.) blackout drunk, or b.) sharing a bed with another woman. As I have engaged in sex without knowing it. With the sexsomnia, I typically wake up sometime before or during climax… but there have been instances (usually with benodryl involved as a sleep aid), where I hear about the “hot sex we had last night” and have absolutely zero recollection of the act.
I’m not too familiar with the case (or evidence) but wonder how they could clearly prove his intent to take her against her will (the act of rape) if she was too drunk to even remember it happened. If they’ve proved this (it sounds like possibly through witnesses), of course he should be punished to the full extent of the law… if they haven’t, I can understand the lenient sentence.
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Certainly not. But what has that to do with the punishment of an admitted rapist? Your original post called it “date rape” and suggested they were equally at fault.
She did not rape him. She did not ask that he rape her. Given the abrasions and state she was in generally when found, it appears that he dragged her to some extent to behind the dumpster.
Ive been to quite a few parties and bars in my day and I don’t think the situation is so cut and dry. I know many girls who get drunk and end up with a guy later in the night, only to ask me (or completely forget it happened) how their night went. Hell, one of my ex girlfriends and I met because we were both extremely drunk at a bar and she slapped my face out of a dare, and I found her sassiness attractive. She had no memory of slapping me the next morning, or us making out…or trying to hook up in the bar bathroom. And I found it completely unbelievable that she forgot the entire night. Maybe Im just that terrible of a lover and she forgot on purpose, who knows.
There are WITNESSES who saw her unconscious with him on top of her, humping. When they made themselves known, the rapist ran, rather than acting to cover his “date” so strangers wouldn’t see her exposed ass and vagina. (Her exposed ABRADED ass and vagina.)
That running thing - that’s weird, right? For someone feeling really drunk and like he’s doing consensual stuff.
Maybe you should read the court documents rather than simply talking out of your ass.
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Jesus people get offended around here when you disagree with them.
Just be glad you’re not blackout drunk! I’d probably roll you, or something.
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Im not a cheap date. Ive never blacked out before.
Again playing devil’s advocate…
Never engaged in anal (because eww)… but (no puns) it’s not at all uncommon for my partners vagina to suffer some minor trauma (tearing/abrasions)… during the act of consensual sex–even with proper (or copious) amounts of lube, it happens… probably 1 in 20 times. It’s not because I’m rough or too big (I may be slightly bigger than average, but far from “hung” or huge)… just hitting the wrong angle/depth at the wrong time… and she’ll often do it to herself.
If I’m having sex in public and get busted… I’d probably be likely to flee the scene too… granted, I doubt I’d do so at the expense of leaving my partner behind… but again, not so weird.
Guilty… and probably won’t take the time to do so–but considering he WAS convicted and not only you (but also a jury of his peers) found him guilty, I guess it’s fair to say that yeah, he’s probably a shithead…
paduse, the abrasions I’m referring to were external - indicating that she was dragged or otherwise treated very roughly. As far as I know there was no anal penetration.
The vaginal abrasions were apparently from fingering, and there was dirt and debris in her.
He ran from a completely non-responsive partner. She didn’t move before the two witnesses called out (one was struck by something weird or off when he was passing, and went back) and she didn’t move after Turner pushed off and ran away. One of the witnesses stayed behind to make sure she was alive. They were apparently both pretty traumatized by what they encountered.
Anyway, yeah. I think a shithead.
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