Bowe Bergdahl

POW’s would be returned quickly if we made the cost of capturing American soldiers too high to endure. For every country that chooses to keep Americans hostage, destroy a city block every hour until they are returned, unscathed. Random cities. Easy peezy lemon squeezy. Fuck GIVING them a reason to capture Americans. If they know we have a weak assed president who will give up FIVE high level “detainees” for ONE piece of shit deserter, IMAGINE what we would give up for a real soldier? No, we should take that incentive away. Make the cost of the kidnapping/prisoner business too high. If anything, they would give a shot down pilot a ride back to the border.

We have the greatest and most powerful military in history. Yet we are consistently getting our asses kicked by these third world, piece of shit countries. We have pussy politicians and limp wristed bureaucrats running wars. Fuck that. The reason the entire third world thinks they can fuck with us is because we lack the will to use our force. Raze a city or two to the ground. Let them know the cost of attacking the United States of America OR our Citizens abroad. Make the cost unbearable. Take “negotiation” out of the equation. Seriously. Why the hell would we entertain the demands of some camel fucking muslim? ONE American soldier’s life is worth ten thousand of theirs, IMHO. Once they understand that, the American POW problem would go away quickly.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Does Bill Gates have a greater right to life than I do? He is clearly “worth” more.
[/quote]

Eh, I don’t know about that. Dude wants a singular world government and to repeal the 2nd. Certainly isn’t worth more than you, imo.
[/quote]

Well I appreciate that!

Unfortunately though, if I do a cost benefit analysis Bill has me beat. His philanthropic efforts this week will probably dwarf my life long efforts. So, if some bureaucrat has chose, based on this analysis, him or me. Who gets picked? Him. 10 times out of 10.

Lets forget terrorism and look at something closer to home. Healthcare. Bill and I both need a new liver or we’re both going to die today. There’s one available, if we use a cost benefit analysis who gets it? Again, probably him; although, maybe me because of age. Substitute Mark Zuckerberger (sp) for Bill. Now who gets it?

Well, fuck. [/quote]

Mickey Mantel got a bunch of livers ahead of people because he was good at baseball.

I’m not trying to pin you to a wall here, I understand what you’re saying about the government and value of life, I just wanted clarification if your willing to go to the same lengths for a deadbeat as you were a productive member of society.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Does Bill Gates have a greater right to life than I do? He is clearly “worth” more.
[/quote]

Eh, I don’t know about that. Dude wants a singular world government and to repeal the 2nd. Certainly isn’t worth more than you, imo.
[/quote]

Well I appreciate that!

Unfortunately though, if I do a cost benefit analysis Bill has me beat. His philanthropic efforts this week will probably dwarf my life long efforts. So, if some bureaucrat has chose, based on this analysis, him or me. Who gets picked? Him. 10 times out of 10.

Lets forget terrorism and look at something closer to home. Healthcare. Bill and I both need a new liver or we’re both going to die today. There’s one available, if we use a cost benefit analysis who gets it? Again, probably him; although, maybe me because of age. Substitute Mark Zuckerberger (sp) for Bill. Now who gets it?

Well, fuck. [/quote]

Mickey Mantel got a bunch of livers ahead of people because he was good at baseball. [/quote]

As good as #7 was I think that’s pretty messed up.

[quote]
I’m not trying to pin you to a wall here, I understand what you’re saying about the government and value of life, I just wanted clarification if your willing to go to the same lengths for a deadbeat as you were a productive member of society. [/quote]

Am I personally willing to go to the same lengths for a deadbeat? Depends on the deadbeat, but probably not. Then again, I’m an accountant that hasn’t put a uniform on in 7+ years. I’m not the government.

I don’t think any person has a greater right to life or liberty than any other person and I don’t want the government deciding who has a greater right to life or liberty based on analytic.

It’s one thing to say X has more worth to society than Y. It’s an entirely different thing to say X deserves to live more than Y because he is more valuable to society. That’s really all I’m saying.

[quote]Aggv wrote:
So that fact that i pointed out the ridiculous double standard in the treatment and respect given to obama vs W. and that makes me a racist? am i following this correctly/

… were those Israeli soldiers deserters or not? [/quote]

I’m just going to leave this little gem here. Worth the six minutes.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
So that fact that i pointed out the ridiculous double standard in the treatment and respect given to obama vs W. and that makes me a racist? am i following this correctly/

… were those Israeli soldiers deserters or not? [/quote]

I’m just going to leave this little gem here. Worth the six minutes.

[/quote]

No one was accused of racism in this thread, explicitly or implicitly. Beans introduction of the race card was a blatant straw man.

I really only skimmed over that pissing match, so I don’t really know which one of you professional debaters threw the first ad hominem, red herring, straw man, gratuitous, insufficiently supported, unqualified resume pointing, false premise, sloganeering, fact rejecting attack.

I just thought it was cool vid that put down progressives. Cuz I HATE me some progressives. LOL

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
sloganeering, [/quote]

Not sure if compliment or insult…

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
sloganeering, [/quote]

Not sure if compliment or insult…[/quote]

I dunno - I just got it from a debate website so that I could list a bunch of impressive sounding words. LOL Did you watch the vid? It’s pretty funny.

Sloganeering: Debater uses a slogan rather than using facts or logic. Slogans are vague sentences or phrases that derive their power from rhetorical devices like alliteration, repetition, cadence, or rhyming; Rich Dad Poor Dad’s “Donâ??t work for money, make money work for you” is a classic example. In sports, coaches frequently rely on cliches, a less rhetorical form of slogan, to deflect criticism.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
sloganeering, [/quote]

Not sure if compliment or insult…[/quote]

I dunno - I just got it from a debate website so that I could list a bunch of impressive sounding words. LOL Did you watch the vid? It’s pretty funny.

Sloganeering: Debater uses a slogan rather than using facts or logic. Slogans are vague sentences or phrases that derive their power from rhetorical devices like alliteration, repetition, cadence, or rhyming; Rich Dad Poor Dad’s “Donâ??t work for money, make money work for you” is a classic example. In sports, coaches frequently rely on cliches, a less rhetorical form of slogan, to deflect criticism.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. That involves a decent amount of creativity. I mean, I feel like that is a compliment… You know?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Does Bill Gates have a greater right to life than I do? He is clearly “worth” more.

[/quote]

Eh, I don’t know about that. Dude wants a singular world government and to repeal the 2nd. Certainly isn’t worth more than you, imo.

[/quote]

That cocksucker is responsible for Microsoft Word. If you are going to list his crimes, you might as well list the unforgivable one that he actually committed and got away with.

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
POW’s would be returned quickly if we made the cost of capturing American soldiers too high to endure. For every country that chooses to keep Americans hostage, destroy a city block every hour until they are returned, unscathed. Random cities. Easy peezy lemon squeezy. Fuck GIVING them a reason to capture Americans. If they know we have a weak assed president who will give up FIVE high level “detainees” for ONE piece of shit deserter, IMAGINE what we would give up for a real soldier? No, we should take that incentive away. Make the cost of the kidnapping/prisoner business too high. If anything, they would give a shot down pilot a ride back to the border.

We have the greatest and most powerful military in history. Yet we are consistently getting our asses kicked by these third world, piece of shit countries. We have pussy politicians and limp wristed bureaucrats running wars. Fuck that. The reason the entire third world thinks they can fuck with us is because we lack the will to use our force. Raze a city or two to the ground. Let them know the cost of attacking the United States of America OR our Citizens abroad. Make the cost unbearable. Take “negotiation” out of the equation. Seriously. Why the hell would we entertain the demands of some camel fucking muslim? ONE American soldier’s life is worth ten thousand of theirs, IMHO. Once they understand that, the American POW problem would go away quickly.[/quote]

Yeah, that strategy worked great for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Bashar al-Assad is also implementing it to great effect.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Does Bill Gates have a greater right to life than I do? He is clearly “worth” more.

[/quote]

Eh, I don’t know about that. Dude wants a singular world government and to repeal the 2nd. Certainly isn’t worth more than you, imo.

[/quote]

That cocksucker is responsible for Microsoft Word. If you are going to list his crimes, you might as well list the unforgivable one that he actually committed and got away with.
[/quote]

Bwahahaha!!

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Does Bill Gates have a greater right to life than I do? He is clearly “worth” more.

[/quote]

Eh, I don’t know about that. Dude wants a singular world government and to repeal the 2nd. Certainly isn’t worth more than you, imo.

[/quote]

That cocksucker is responsible for Microsoft Word. If you are going to list his crimes, you might as well list the unforgivable one that he actually committed and got away with.
[/quote]

That may be the unforgivable sin, but stealing DOS from Digital Research and building an empire on top of it definitely qualifies as his Original Sin.

Every time I have to use a Windows machine (and I have not yet done so without experiencing some form of irritation, frustration, or outright fury) I think of all the windows through which I would like to hurl him.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
sloganeering, [/quote]

Not sure if compliment or insult…[/quote]

I dunno - I just got it from a debate website so that I could list a bunch of impressive sounding words. LOL Did you watch the vid? It’s pretty funny.

Sloganeering: Debater uses a slogan rather than using facts or logic. Slogans are vague sentences or phrases that derive their power from rhetorical devices like alliteration, repetition, cadence, or rhyming; Rich Dad Poor Dad’s “DonÃ?¢??t work for money, make money work for you” is a classic example. In sports, coaches frequently rely on cliches, a less rhetorical form of slogan, to deflect criticism.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. That involves a decent amount of creativity. I mean, I feel like that is a compliment… You know?[/quote]

I’ll go on record and and call it a compliment - just cuz it’s you, Beansie! LOL

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
POW’s would be returned quickly if we made the cost of capturing American soldiers too high to endure. For every country that chooses to keep Americans hostage, destroy a city block every hour until they are returned, unscathed. Random cities. Easy peezy lemon squeezy. Fuck GIVING them a reason to capture Americans. If they know we have a weak assed president who will give up FIVE high level “detainees” for ONE piece of shit deserter, IMAGINE what we would give up for a real soldier? No, we should take that incentive away. Make the cost of the kidnapping/prisoner business too high. If anything, they would give a shot down pilot a ride back to the border.

We have the greatest and most powerful military in history. Yet we are consistently getting our asses kicked by these third world, piece of shit countries. We have pussy politicians and limp wristed bureaucrats running wars. Fuck that. The reason the entire third world thinks they can fuck with us is because we lack the will to use our force. Raze a city or two to the ground. Let them know the cost of attacking the United States of America OR our Citizens abroad. Make the cost unbearable. Take “negotiation” out of the equation. Seriously. Why the hell would we entertain the demands of some camel fucking muslim? ONE American soldier’s life is worth ten thousand of theirs, IMHO. Once they understand that, the American POW problem would go away quickly.[/quote]

Yeah, that strategy worked great for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Bashar al-Assad is also implementing it to great effect.[/quote]

No, it’s NOT the same strategy, nor the same context. The Soviets were and occupying force and Assad is the president of HIS OWN country. Neither of them have anywhere CLOSE to the air superiority, ordinance or military might of the United States of America. It is NOT comparable.

For the record, I KNOW it will never happen. No “civilized” Western politician these days has the will to win a fucking war anymore. This simplistic concern for the safety of “non-combatants” effectively hamstrings most effective strategies.

War hasn’t changed. It’s been an ugly, hideous monster for thousands of years. What HAS changed is scales of communication and the ability of MEDIA to bring the horrors of war into everyday households. So now politicians are under pressure to “sanitize” war. That’s impossible.

War reminds me of health care.

You make a lot more money with treatments than you do cures.

[quote]Aggv wrote:
War reminds me of health care.

You make a lot more money with treatments than you do cures. [/quote]

The costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are estimated to reach $4 trillion to $6 trillion ( that’s 4-6 million million dollars).

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
War reminds me of health care.

You make a lot more money with treatments than you do cures. [/quote]

The costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are estimated to reach $4 trillion to $6 trillion ( that’s 4-6 million million dollars).[/quote]

I believe that’s the estimated cost to tax payers. How much of that ended up back in the economy? In other words, how much private sector revenue was driven by the cost of the wars?

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
POW’s would be returned quickly if we made the cost of capturing American soldiers too high to endure. For every country that chooses to keep Americans hostage, destroy a city block every hour until they are returned, unscathed. Random cities. Easy peezy lemon squeezy. Fuck GIVING them a reason to capture Americans. If they know we have a weak assed president who will give up FIVE high level “detainees” for ONE piece of shit deserter, IMAGINE what we would give up for a real soldier? No, we should take that incentive away. Make the cost of the kidnapping/prisoner business too high. If anything, they would give a shot down pilot a ride back to the border.

We have the greatest and most powerful military in history. Yet we are consistently getting our asses kicked by these third world, piece of shit countries. We have pussy politicians and limp wristed bureaucrats running wars. Fuck that. The reason the entire third world thinks they can fuck with us is because we lack the will to use our force. Raze a city or two to the ground. Let them know the cost of attacking the United States of America OR our Citizens abroad. Make the cost unbearable. Take “negotiation” out of the equation. Seriously. Why the hell would we entertain the demands of some camel fucking muslim? ONE American soldier’s life is worth ten thousand of theirs, IMHO. Once they understand that, the American POW problem would go away quickly.[/quote]

Yeah, that strategy worked great for the Soviets in Afghanistan. Bashar al-Assad is also implementing it to great effect.[/quote]

No, it’s NOT the same strategy, nor the same context. The Soviets were and occupying force and Assad is the president of HIS OWN country. Neither of them have anywhere CLOSE to the air superiority, ordinance or military might of the United States of America. It is NOT comparable.

For the record, I KNOW it will never happen. No “civilized” Western politician these days has the will to win a fucking war anymore. This simplistic concern for the safety of “non-combatants” effectively hamstrings most effective strategies.

War hasn’t changed. It’s been an ugly, hideous monster for thousands of years. What HAS changed is scales of communication and the ability of MEDIA to bring the horrors of war into everyday households. So now politicians are under pressure to “sanitize” war. That’s impossible.[/quote]

The ISAF didn’t occupy Afghanistan? The DOD defines air supremacy as the “degree of air superiority wherein the opposing air force is incapable of effective interference”, so I’m unsure why you’re using the term to support your position. Terrorist organizations don’t field air forces. The disparity of power between the USSR (a superpower) and the mujahideen (a group of non-state actors) was enormous. Over 1,500,000 civilians were killed during the war. A bit more than two cities worth. Had Premier Angrychicken been at the helm of power, the Soviets could and probably would have glassed Afghanistan many times over. Circa 1979, it is comparable.

The “simplistic concern for non-combatants” is a keystone of counter-insurgency doctrine and international peremptory norms, but hey, that’s a bit more complex than air superiority. Yours isn’t a position of a hard nosed realism, but of a profound and disconcerting nescience.

Ok, Biz, if that’s the deal…The Soviets didn’t give 2 shits about the people of Afghanistan and lost because they were fighting a basic war of extermination, how could you explain our problems in the same country, where we cowered down to Hamid Karzai’s every whim, like not bombing indiscriminately, ect, & how we attempted to work with local tribe members to set up a popular government and still screwed up…or in Iraq, where we set up a democracy but were too stupid to realize the people of Iraq would vote along secular lines and the popular candidates would be extremists, militia leaders or radical Imam’s tied to regional enemies through religious affiliation?

We conquered Iraq & Afghanistan, seemed to have popular support at first. How did it all fall into chaos? Was it blunders by fools like Bremer & Rumsfeld, blunders by our military or Blackwater? Abu Ghraib? What went wrong in each country & why?