Albert Einstein
(1879 -1955):
“We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.”
[quote]nik19 wrote:
hspder wrote:
[/quote]
GENERAL HISTORY OF THE DISPUTE
Pakistan came into being in 1947 consequent to the two-nation theory propounded by Jinnah and his associates. Two-nation theory implied a homeland for Muslims and the rest of Indian sub-continent to be occupied by the non-Muslims. However, this did not come about because majority of the Muslims elected to stay back on the Indian part of the sub-continent.
The “Kashmir problem” dates back to 1947 and the partition of India and Pakistan. In 1948, Pakistan sent Waziri and Mansud tribals from the North-West Frontier to free Kashmir from the Hindu Maharajah. The rulers of these princely states were given the option of joining either of the dominions - India or Pakistan. The ruler of J&K, Maharaja Hari Singh did not exercise the option to join either of the two dominions, and instead, wanted a standstill Agreement, pending the final decision regarding his state’s accession.
This attack forced the Maharaja to flee to India. The Maharaja asked India to help his people who were being killed and looted by the Pakistani raiders. He also agreed to make Jammu & Kashmir part of India. The Indian ruler at that time was Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru. He accepted Jammu & Kashmir’s accession to India and agreed to rescue his people from the Pakistani attackers.
India not only countered the attack militarily, Indian troops were flown into the Kashmir Valley and they managed to drive away most of the Pakistani raiders from the state. India, also lodged a complaint with the United Nation’s Secretary General on December 30, 1947, against the Pakistani invasion on Kashmir. This led to the appointment of a United Nation’s Commission on India and Pakistan (UNCIP) which proposed ceasefire, demilitarisation and plebiscite by its resolutions of August 13, 1948, and January 5, 1949. Both sides agreed to the ceasefire line in 1949.
This 700-km-long line running from Chammb in the south to Ladakh at NJ 9842 point after which there is glacier, provided the future battleground between the two countries in the glaciers. Through the war, Pakistan acquired approximately 84,000 sq. km of Jammu and Kashmir (5,000 square miles), and nearly one million people under its control.
I wont bore you with the details here… you can follow up on all the three wars here…
http://www.armyinkashmir.org/history/history4.html
Pakistan’s Core Interests in Kashmir:
The rivers of Sindh (2897 kilometers), Jhelum, Chenab and Ravi provide the main drainage system for Pakistan. All these rivers originate in Kashmir and run into Pakistan… Agriculture in Pakistan is dependent on waters of these rivers and, therefore, Kashmir provides the life-line to Pakistan. Founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah once even termed Kashmir to be the Jugular vein of Pakistan.
First of all, the issue goes back to the year 1947. Kashmir is located at a place where out of five rivers that flow into Pakistan four of them originate from Kashmir. It is true that a treaty has been signed between India and Pakistan in 1960, which divided the distribution of the waters coming from these rivers. But Pakistanis feel that in a major conflict, India could shut off the waters from the rivers.
again you can follow it up through the same link
[quote]nik19 wrote:
The Cricket Club Of India…
Malagh I used to play cricket here when I was 16… Im a fast bowler.[/quote]
Wow! I’ve never heard of that one before. Do you play for a league or for fun? I joined a league myself, and yes fast bowling is something I enjoy too!
[quote]nik19 wrote:
malagh wrote:
Nik,
Malagh
Cheers mate, thank you for kind words. Im so glad that people are reading this thread and replying, I just wanted to let everyone know what the situation is and what exactly the Kashmir issue is all about.
Kashmir mate…its hell on earth I dont know how people live in that state pal… it gets bombed EVERY SINGLE DAY… terrorists are shot down almost every week.
Im happy with the India - America relations so far and you are right, they have had an ally for a long long time… that is why I was so shocked when Pakistan claimed they are USA’s Ally in fighting terror… mate they are the global hub of terrorism!
I dont believe a word Mushy says mate… I just cant.
I hope your trip to Mumbai goes well, you better take an umbrella, its Monsoon season and its gonna be pissing it down lol!.[/quote]
I agree dude. At one time, Kashmir was labelled the Switzerland of India. It was the place where newly wed couples used to go for a honeymoon. Things changed. Nowadays, I don’t think any newlywed would fancy having a bomb dropped on his ass while in the act of fornication.
I must commend you on tracing the history of the conflict accurately. Helped refresh my history as well.
I saw some of the questions you faced in college. It was pretty sad yet hilarious.
Here are some of the questions I fended off while in college, along with the answers I gave:
- Do you guys go to school on an elephant?
-Yes. Everyday. And I park each one of them in the garage at night.
2)Do you have electricity in your home?
-Occassionally. We try to finish all our work while the sun is up. That way we don’t need lights and just sleep in the night. Less bills to pay.
And the cherry on the cake(a girl who I went out with, only once mind you, asked me this) :
3)Where is India? Isn’t it somewhere in Africa?
-Yes. Good guess. It is indeed the capital of Africa.(This answer went down perfectly well with her.)
These people popped up every couple months or so. Sanity prevailed for the majority of the year though. Maybe this was because I did school in a small midwestern town, not much diversity in my nick of the woods, or maybe I just have a penchant for attracting dumb people 
On the flip side, I met some Americans who had an amazing indepth knowledge about other cultures. It is a privilege to have a conversation with someone like that, someone who can add something meaningful and maybe impart some wisdom as well.
This is the first time I’ll be going to Mumbai. Monsoons are cool. I look forward to Amchi Mumbai!
[quote]nik19 wrote:
Last post before I go to bed… for anyone that is interested, just a brief history of India and The kashmir issue.
India is made of 35 states and borders… Pakistan, China, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Myanmar and has the island nation of Sri Lanka at its tip.
Capital - New Delhi
Currency - Indian Rupee (INR)
Independance day - 15th Aug 1947 (Britain)
Military - The Military of India has the highest headcount in the world, after the Peoples Liberation Army. Over a million strong, the Indian Paramilitary Forces also form the largest paramilitary force in the world. Combined, the Indian Armed Forces is the largest armed force in the world. The Indian Army maintains the world’s 3rd largest active army.
Population - 1,080,264,388 (July 2005 est.)
Religions:Hindu 80.5%,
Muslim 13.4%,
Christian 2.3%,
Sikh 1.9%,
Other 1.8%,
(Persians,Buddhists etc)
Athiest 0.1%
(2001 census)
Languages: English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication;
Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 30% of the people; there are 14 other official languages[/quote]
Talking about democracies, the two most powerful positions in the country are occupied by:
Prime Minister: Manmohan Singh (sikh, 1.9% of poplation)
President: APJ Kalam (muslim, 13.4% of population)
[quote]nik19 wrote:
First Page From Times Of India
Dear Terrorist,
Even if you are not reading this we don’t care. Time and again you tried to disturb us and disrupt our life – killing innocent civilians by planting bombs in trains, buses and cars. You have tried hard to bring death and destruction, cause panic and fear and create communal disharmony but every time you were disgustingly unsuccessful.
Do you know how we pass our life in Mumbai? How much it takes for us to earn that single rupee? If you wanted to give us a shock then we are sorry to say that you failed miserably in your ulterior motives. Better look elsewhere, not here.
We are not Hindus and Muslims or Gujaratis and Marathis or Punjabis and Bengalis. Nor do we distinguish ourselves as owners or workers, government employees or private employees. WE ARE MUMBAIKERS (Bombay-ites, if you like). We will not allow you to disrupt our life like this. On the last few occasions when you struck (including the 11 deadly blasts in a single day killing over 250 people and injuring 500 plus in 1993), we went to work the next day in full strength.
This time too we cleared everything within a few hours and were back to normal - the vendors serving their next order, businessmen finalizing the next deals and the office workers rushing to catch the next train. Yes, the same train you targeted.
Fathom this: Within three hours of the blasts, long queues of blood-donating volunteers were seen outside various hospitals, where most of the injured were admitted. By midnight, the hospital had to issue a notification that blood banks were full and they didn’t require any more blood. The next day, attendance at schools and offices is close to 100%, trains & buses are packed to the brim, the crowds are back. The city has simply dusted itself off and moved on - perhaps with greater vigour.
We are Mumbaikars and we live like brothers in times like this. So, do not dare to threaten us with your crackers. The spirit of Mumbai is very strong and can not be harmed.
With Love,
From the people of Mumbai
[/quote]
wow… That was incredible. Non-confrontational and yet very powerful. Amazing response.
I was caught up in the London bombings and that was precisely the sentiment I wanted to get across to those responsible.
To be honest though, I did get a cab to work the day after!
[quote]malagh wrote:
Wow! I’ve never heard of that one before. Do you play for a league or for fun? I joined a league myself, and yes fast bowling is something I enjoy too![/quote]
Its famous pal. its in churchgate, the ICC Knockout Tournament (Champions Trophy) is going to be held in India, and the finals are goin to be held at that ground. I may go for it… its in october. I played alot in many teams when I was younger then after I moved to england I got into muay thai.
[quote]malagh wrote:
I agree dude. At one time, Kashmir was labelled the Switzerland of India. It was the place where newly wed couples used to go for a honeymoon. Things changed. Nowadays, I don’t think any newlywed would fancy having a bomb dropped on his ass while in the act of fornication.
[/quote]
Yea… my parents went to Kashmir for their honeymoon … but after the '71 war, that all changed… Kashmir still is one of the most beautiful places on earth… its sad that militancy has ended tourism in the state.
Cheers pal… I had just done a presentation on India a few months ago for Uni, so thats why I have all these facts and figures.
Lol… nice one mate, I mean how can people be that ignorant!
Lol… I got asked that many times aswell.
LOL! MATE that was funny… the irony is that her equivalent in India, would have complete knowledge about America and its basic history!.
You got that right… Amchi Mumbai!
[quote]malagh wrote:
Talking about democracies, the two most powerful positions in the country are occupied by:
Prime Minister: Manmohan Singh (sikh, 1.9% of poplation)
President: APJ Kalam (muslim, 13.4% of population)
[/quote]
Exactly… I dont understand why the muslims keep playing the race card and pretending to be victims!
Yes there have been hindu muslim riots, and nothing justifies the killing of innocents on both sides, but all these riots have been started by muslims, and then when some angry hindu mobs react they make it out to be as if they are evil.
The Gujurat Riots, where 1500 people were killed (majority of them bieng muslims) is what started all these revenge bombings.
But what the fuck do you expect, when a muslim mob burns a train full of hindu pandits? (50+ of them died)
and the country is 80% hindu!.
Race, religion and colour is only an issue when you make it an issue, Im sick of them bringing up the fact that they are a minority and they are victimised… The President is a Muslim, The Top Bollywood actors are muslim, some of the greatest players in the Indian cricket team are muslim…
They even have muslim reservation at universities and colleges so even if a non muslim has the grades to get in, a muslim with a lower grade will get in just because he is a muslim… we are so fair to them… this is why I get annoyed when India gets bombed for 'exploitation of minorities!"
[quote]1-packlondoner wrote:
wow… That was incredible. Non-confrontational and yet very powerful. Amazing response.
I was caught up in the London bombings and that was precisely the sentiment I wanted to get across to those responsible.
To be honest though, I did get a cab to work the day after![/quote]
I dont blame you geez, I was in California when it happened, I remember flicking through the channels and I was shocked at what I saw on CNN.
When I got back to Uni, I didnt travel on trains for atleast a month, also 3 of the bombers were from Leeds, one of them was just near our house!.. it was soo tense the first few months after the bombings, but everything is alrite now.
Im glad you were not hurt in the attack.
Nik