Boehner to Step Down from Congress

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Great post Beans.

But if we look at history, Republicans have the advantage. People are usually tired of the current government and president, and tend to vote the opposite.

A flaccid Carter was replaced with a strong commanding Reagan. A dopey GW Bush was replaced with a “pragmatic thinker” with Obama, who turned out to be a ditherer. A dithering politically correct Obama will be replaced with someone who is neither dithering or politically correct. [/quote]

Well said and something that history has shown to be tried and true. Almost without exception we swing not just from party to party but from personality type to personality type.

The electorate is nothing if not fickle.

Those who think that the democrats can hold the White House for three terms in a row are bucking history in a very big way.

82

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Great post Beans.

But if we look at history, Republicans have the advantage. People are usually tired of the current government and president, and tend to vote the opposite.

A flaccid Carter was replaced with a strong commanding Reagan. A dopey GW Bush was replaced with a “pragmatic thinker” with Obama, who turned out to be a ditherer. A dithering politically correct Obama will be replaced with someone who is neither dithering or politically correct. [/quote]

Well said and something that history has shown to be tried and true. Almost without exception we swing not just from party to party but from personality type to personality type.

The electorate is nothing if not fickle.

Those who think that the democrats can hold the White House for three terms in a row are bucking history in a very big way.
[/quote]

Not taking anything away from what Beans said, it might be possible for Democrats to go 3 in a row, I just think Obama really let alot of people down with all talk and no walk. Hillary is nowhere near the gifted speaker Obama is, not to mention the less than stellar issues she has created all on her own.

The numbers show that the entire election comes down to Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, and maybe one other purple state.

83

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Drew, what makes you think Cruz is “radically” right?[/quote]

Maybe radical with Cruz isn’t the correct word, but I would say he’s very honest about his hard right stances. He’s a strong social and fiscal conservative, and has a record that reflects that. From what I’ve heard/read, most strong conservatives think he is the best candidate.

I do not think Cruz would win over independents who are more sympathetic to left leaning social issues. I think other candidates would do a better job of that, and therefore, would be a better option to get a republican in the white house.

[/quote]

An article, obviously with plenty of opinion in it, on why Cruz is too far-right for my tastes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/10/01/what_ted_cruz_really_stands_for_128264.html

He tried to shutdown the government and put an amendment that nobody agreed with as it offered no solution. It will make him sound good to a conservative crowd, but there was no winning with a government shutdown. Obama and the Dems would’ve loved for it to happen, but thankfully it didn’t. people will keep a relative positive view of the republicans unlike the last time Cruz led the Republicans down that rabbit hole.

85

I’ve seen rumors that there is a “grass roots movement” to get Ron Paul elected Speaker.

I’ll take Bill Whittle or Alan West over him, if we’re going outside the House. Shit I could see Amash kill that position too if we’re staying in.

86

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Drew, what makes you think Cruz is “radically” right?[/quote]

Maybe radical with Cruz isn’t the correct word, but I would say he’s very honest about his hard right stances. He’s a strong social and fiscal conservative, and has a record that reflects that. From what I’ve heard/read, most strong conservatives think he is the best candidate.

I do not think Cruz would win over independents who are more sympathetic to left leaning social issues. I think other candidates would do a better job of that, and therefore, would be a better option to get a republican in the white house.

[/quote]

An article, obviously with plenty of opinion in it, on why Cruz is too far-right for my tastes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/10/01/what_ted_cruz_really_stands_for_128264.html

He tried to shutdown the government and put an amendment that nobody agreed with as it offered no solution. It will make him sound good to a conservative crowd, but there was no winning with a government shutdown. Obama and the Dems would’ve loved for it to happen, but thankfully it didn’t. people will keep a relative positive view of the republicans unlike the last time Cruz led the Republicans down that rabbit hole.[/quote]

Reading the fine print oftentimes illuminates the situation. Let’s try it with your link, shall we?

“Mark Salter is the former chief of staff to Sen. John McCain and was a senior adviser to the McCain for President campaign.”[/quote]

I already mentioned the article had a lot of opinion, which you are confirming. I’m only pointing out that to a moderate republican, which the author of the article seems to be, Cruz seems far-right.

88

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Drew, what makes you think Cruz is “radically” right?[/quote]

Maybe radical with Cruz isn’t the correct word, but I would say he’s very honest about his hard right stances. He’s a strong social and fiscal conservative, and has a record that reflects that. From what I’ve heard/read, most strong conservatives think he is the best candidate.

I do not think Cruz would win over independents who are more sympathetic to left leaning social issues. I think other candidates would do a better job of that, and therefore, would be a better option to get a republican in the white house.

[/quote]

An article, obviously with plenty of opinion in it, on why Cruz is too far-right for my tastes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/10/01/what_ted_cruz_really_stands_for_128264.html

He tried to shutdown the government and put an amendment that nobody agreed with as it offered no solution. It will make him sound good to a conservative crowd, but there was no winning with a government shutdown. Obama and the Dems would’ve loved for it to happen, but thankfully it didn’t. people will keep a relative positive view of the republicans unlike the last time Cruz led the Republicans down that rabbit hole.[/quote]

Reading the fine print oftentimes illuminates the situation. Let’s try it with your link, shall we?

“Mark Salter is the former chief of staff to Sen. John McCain and was a senior adviser to the McCain for President campaign.”[/quote]

I already mentioned the article had a lot of opinion, which you are confirming. I’m only pointing out that to a moderate republican, which the author of the article seems to be, Cruz seems far-right.[/quote]

Drew, do you know that it is Congress’s job and one of its primary powers to shut down the government? It’s called the power of the purse. Just because it has been surrendered by the spineless appeasers in charge of the House and Senate does not make it some kind of far-right extremist boogeyman. Don’t drink the media Koolaid, man. Do you know that the government has been shut down 18 times in modern political history?

Actually, it shuts down every Friday night until Monday morning and every holiday. Planes do not fall out of the sky. Nuclear reactors do not melt down. It’s actually a very valuable tool Congress can use to get legislation passed or to get it into the public eye in order to get voters’ support.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/

89

Cruz is one of the only politicians actually doing his job.

I will give you that the media does everything in its power to make it look like Cruz’s positions are “extreme.”

By those measures, however, Reagan was also a crazy extremist. And he was elected in two landslide victories with record numbers of voters from both sides turning out in his favor. The idea that moderates conservatives would stay home for someone like Cruz is a badly mistaken one, I think. I hope we have the chance to see if I’m right or not.

90

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Drew, what makes you think Cruz is “radically” right?[/quote]

Maybe radical with Cruz isn’t the correct word, but I would say he’s very honest about his hard right stances. He’s a strong social and fiscal conservative, and has a record that reflects that. From what I’ve heard/read, most strong conservatives think he is the best candidate.

I do not think Cruz would win over independents who are more sympathetic to left leaning social issues. I think other candidates would do a better job of that, and therefore, would be a better option to get a republican in the white house.

[/quote]

An article, obviously with plenty of opinion in it, on why Cruz is too far-right for my tastes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/10/01/what_ted_cruz_really_stands_for_128264.html

He tried to shutdown the government and put an amendment that nobody agreed with as it offered no solution. It will make him sound good to a conservative crowd, but there was no winning with a government shutdown. Obama and the Dems would’ve loved for it to happen, but thankfully it didn’t. people will keep a relative positive view of the republicans unlike the last time Cruz led the Republicans down that rabbit hole.[/quote]

Reading the fine print oftentimes illuminates the situation. Let’s try it with your link, shall we?

“Mark Salter is the former chief of staff to Sen. John McCain and was a senior adviser to the McCain for President campaign.”[/quote]

I already mentioned the article had a lot of opinion, which you are confirming. I’m only pointing out that to a moderate republican, which the author of the article seems to be, Cruz seems far-right.[/quote]

Drew, do you know that it is Congress’s job and one of its primary powers to shut down the government? It’s called the power of the purse. Just because it has been surrendered by the spineless appeasers in charge of the House and Senate does not make it some kind of far-right extremist boogeyman. Don’t drink the media Koolaid, man. Do you know that the government has been shut down 18 times in modern political history?

Actually, it shuts down every Friday night until Monday morning and every holiday. Planes do not fall out of the sky. Nuclear reactors do not melt down. It’s actually a very valuable tool Congress can use to get legislation passed or to get it into the public eye in order to get voters’ support.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/[/quote]

Ok. So if the government shut down, what’s the purpose? What would it accomplish?

Obama said he would veto anything that didn’t fund planned parenthood. I believe him. I think Obama and the dems would’ve loved the republicans to shut down the government only to give in 2 weeks later, like last time. The approval ratings of the republicans would drop, and they would have a harder time winning people over to conservatism.

The way to defund planned parenthood is to get a republican in the white house. Shutting down the government, right now, would not help accomplish that as people would view it as the republicans fault.

91

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Cruz is one of the only politicians actually doing his job.

I will give you that the media does everything in its power to make it look like Cruz’s positions are “extreme.”

By those measures, however, Reagan was also a crazy extremist. And he was elected in two landslide victories with record numbers of voters from both sides turning out in his favor. The idea that moderates conservatives would stay home for someone like Cruz is a badly mistaken one, I think. I hope we have the chance to see if I’m right or not. [/quote]

Republicans aren’t the only ones voting, you also have to win over independents/democrats. Because of the weak candidates on the democratic side, I believe the republicans have an opportunity that I don’t want them to waste. I know Cruz is a hard-line conserative, I get that, but I don’t think he can win over independents like a more moderate candidate could.

92

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
I think Obama and the dems would’ve loved the republicans to shut down the government only to give in 2 weeks later, like last time. The approval ratings of the republicans would drop, and they would have a harder time winning people over to conservatism.

[/quote]

Yeah, it certainly hurt the republicans in 2014…

93

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
I think Obama and the dems would’ve loved the republicans to shut down the government only to give in 2 weeks later, like last time. The approval ratings of the republicans would drop, and they would have a harder time winning people over to conservatism.

[/quote]

Yeah, it certainly hurt the republicans in 2014…

[/quote]

General elections are different.

Shutting down the government over this issue has no possibility of changing the issue. I don’t see Obama caving in, I see him enjoying the media rip the republicans apart by showing conservatism in a negative way.

I think it would be wise of the republicans to not seem stubborn and radical to independents/democrats and moderate republicans by following a Ted Cruz on his tirade to shut down the government. I think it could be used against them in the general election, and that should be the focus. If they win the election defunding planned parenthood is easy, especially with the house/senate.

94

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
I think Obama and the dems would’ve loved the republicans to shut down the government only to give in 2 weeks later, like last time. The approval ratings of the republicans would drop, and they would have a harder time winning people over to conservatism.

[/quote]

Yeah, it certainly hurt the republicans in 2014…

[/quote]

General elections are different.

Shutting down the government over this issue has no possibility of changing the issue. I don’t see Obama caving in, I see him enjoying the media rip the republicans apart by showing conservatism in a negative way.

I think it would be wise of the republicans to not seem stubborn and radical to independents/democrats and moderate republicans by following a Ted Cruz on his tirade to shut down the government. I think it could be used against them in the general election, and that should be the focus. If they win the election defunding planned parenthood is easy, especially with the house/senate.

[/quote]

No one would care about a govt shutdown, not after the most recent one. Did anything change for anyone ? Oh those govt workers were still paid, so they were basically given a vacation. But did anything change for anyone in their day to day life ? No.

The impending doom also never happened, another shutdown would yield a big shrug by the people.

95

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
I think Obama and the dems would’ve loved the republicans to shut down the government only to give in 2 weeks later, like last time. The approval ratings of the republicans would drop, and they would have a harder time winning people over to conservatism.

[/quote]

Yeah, it certainly hurt the republicans in 2014…

[/quote]

General elections are different.

Shutting down the government over this issue has no possibility of changing the issue. I don’t see Obama caving in, I see him enjoying the media rip the republicans apart by showing conservatism in a negative way.

I think it would be wise of the republicans to not seem stubborn and radical to independents/democrats and moderate republicans by following a Ted Cruz on his tirade to shut down the government. I think it could be used against them in the general election, and that should be the focus. If they win the election defunding planned parenthood is easy, especially with the house/senate.

[/quote]

No one would care about a govt shutdown, not after the most recent one. Did anything change for anyone ? Oh those govt workers were still paid, so they were basically given a vacation. But did anything change for anyone in their day to day life ? No.

The impending doom also never happened, another shutdown would yield a big shrug by the people. [/quote]

I agree with you my friend but for one thing. The left wing media would sound an alarm as if the house was on fire. And all of the blame for this horrific act (eye roll) would be placed squarely on backs of the republicans. So, while I agree in fact that nothing much changes, the most important thing “perception” does change for the worse for the republicans.

96

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Cruz is one of the only politicians actually doing his job.

I will give you that the media does everything in its power to make it look like Cruz’s positions are “extreme.”

By those measures, however, Reagan was also a crazy extremist. And he was elected in two landslide victories with record numbers of voters from both sides turning out in his favor. The idea that moderates conservatives would stay home for someone like Cruz is a badly mistaken one, I think. I hope we have the chance to see if I’m right or not. [/quote]

Compromise is the coin of the political realm. Cruz has demonstrated that he is a maximalist ideologue. It’s his way or the highway. He cares more about principles than be does about consequences. Not exactly attributes one would want for the chief diplomat of the United States.

97

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Cruz is one of the only politicians actually doing his job.

I will give you that the media does everything in its power to make it look like Cruz’s positions are “extreme.”

By those measures, however, Reagan was also a crazy extremist. And he was elected in two landslide victories with record numbers of voters from both sides turning out in his favor. The idea that moderates conservatives would stay home for someone like Cruz is a badly mistaken one, I think. I hope we have the chance to see if I’m right or not. [/quote]

Compromise is the coin of the political realm. Cruz has demonstrated that he is a maximalist ideologue. It’s his way or the highway. He cares more about principles than be does about consequences. Not exactly attributes one would want for the chief diplomat of the United States. [/quote]

Again. And again and again and again: Reagan was a “maximalist ideologue” (get over yourself, Bismark). Far from hurting him, he was the most successful Republican politician of our modern age.

98

[quote]Bismark wrote:
Compromise is the coin of the political realm. [/quote]

That worked out really well for Boehner, didn’t it?

99

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Cruz is one of the only politicians actually doing his job.

I will give you that the media does everything in its power to make it look like Cruz’s positions are “extreme.”

By those measures, however, Reagan was also a crazy extremist. And he was elected in two landslide victories with record numbers of voters from both sides turning out in his favor. The idea that moderates conservatives would stay home for someone like Cruz is a badly mistaken one, I think. I hope we have the chance to see if I’m right or not. [/quote]

Compromise is the coin of the political realm. Cruz has demonstrated that he is a maximalist ideologue. It’s his way or the highway. He cares more about principles than be does about consequences. Not exactly attributes one would want for the chief diplomat of the United States. [/quote]

You buffoon that is exactly whom you helped elect to the Oval Office in Barack Obama the most uncompromising President in the history of our nation and a true ideologue!

As for Reagan he reached across the isle on many occasions and was helped by democrat speaker Tip O’Neil.

You are embarrassing yourself.

Get a better grasp of history before you post.

100

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:
Compromise is the coin of the political realm. [/quote]

That worked out really well for Boehner, didn’t it? [/quote]

It only works when both parties are willing to compromise. Obama played Boehner like a fiddle.