hi guys, for my next cycle, i am planning on using dbol (front loader) for 2 weeks @ 20mg a day before starting the deca, and then continuing the dbol for a further 4 weeks at same dosage.
Where im from, this is kinda the given cycle and most of the guys i train with have used this cycle several times with good results. They also run novaldex the whole way through.
My question is, i m approaching the end of my aas free bulk, and my bodyfat is up to 14%, i know deca will have a ‘hardening’ effect - though not downstairs by all accounts! but should i use the dbol at 14%bf or wait until i have reduced that slightly.
My goal is obviously muscle size, but i’d like not to get any fatter than i am currently.
So should i maybe wait, or switch the dbol for something else?
I think that is the worst cycle I have seen yet and I have seen some bad ones on here…how the fuck is that the most common cycle where you live? I can’t believe there i a whole city of fucktards that think that’s a good cycle.
I will help you out because that cycle is crap. Once I do I want you to tell all the guys you train with why their cycle is bad because crap like this gives juice a bad reputation (like we are all a bunch of limp dick idiots).
First off you want to run deca with test so you don’t have a limp dick.
Secondly you need to learn about esters (this means how long the tail on the drug is which determines how long it will take to work and be in your system).
dbol is an oral and like all orals they are active in the body very quick, this is why you take them spread through the day (a few days until you feel them and a few days until they are out of your system).
Test comes in a variety of esters ranging from suspension, propianate, enanthate, cyponate, undeclanate (spelling is crap and there may be more but those are all you need to know really)…the suspension hits right away and the undeclynate takes a really really long time…the most common are propianate (or PROP), Enanthate (or ENTH), and Cyponate (or CYP)…if you are shooting prop it needs to be done every day or at least every other day and will be out of your system about 3-4 days after your last shot. Cyponate can be shot once a week and takes about 4 weeks to clear.
Deca is a long declanate ester which is why it has the name Deca (Deca is between cyponate and undeclanate) so it takes a long time to be felt (about 4-6 weeks) and it takes about the same amount of time to clear although many will tell you it doesn’t fully clear for about 2 months because it can re-esterfy in the body but don’t worry about that for now, just know that it takes a long time.
When you are setting up a cycle you need to bear these times in mind.
Do something like this:
W 1-6 Dbol 10mg 3x/day
W 1-12 Test Enth 250mg 2x/w
or this
W 1-6 Dbol 10mg 3x/day
W 1-14 Test Enth 250mg 2x/week
W 1-12 Deca 300mg 1x/week
This way the dbol starts you off while you are waiting for the test and deca to work. You keep running test after the deca because it will take less time to clear and you might wanna be able to get a hard on.
With a cycle like this you also might wanna think about what you are goin to do when you stop to get your natural test back and you might wanna have something just in case to deal with estrogen if it becomes a problem? I’ll let you figure that out though. Search Post Cycle Therapy, Nolva, and Test taper…that should get you started.
FOR the love of god post what you are gonna do before you do it.
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
I think that is the worst cycle I have seen yet and I have seen some bad ones on here…how the fuck is that the most common cycle where you live? I can’t believe there i a whole city of fucktards that think that’s a good cycle.
I will help you out because that cycle is crap. Once I do I want you to tell all the guys you train with why their cycle is bad because crap like this gives juice a bad reputation (like we are all a bunch of limp dick idiots).
First off you want to run deca with test so you don’t have a limp dick.
Secondly you need to learn about esters (this means how long the tail on the drug is which determines how long it will take to work and be in your system).
dbol is an oral and like all orals they are active in the body very quick, this is why you take them spread through the day (a few days until you feel them and a few days until they are out of your system).
Test comes in a variety of esters ranging from suspension, propianate, enanthate, cyponate, undeclanate (spelling is crap and there may be more but those are all you need to know really)…the suspension hits right away and the undeclynate takes a really really long time…the most common are propianate (or PROP), Enanthate (or ENTH), and Cyponate (or CYP)…if you are shooting prop it needs to be done every day or at least every other day and will be out of your system about 3-4 days after your last shot. Cyponate can be shot once a week and takes about 4 weeks to clear.
Deca is a long declanate ester which is why it has the name Deca (Deca is between cyponate and undeclanate) so it takes a long time to be felt (about 4-6 weeks) and it takes about the same amount of time to clear although many will tell you it doesn’t fully clear for about 2 months because it can re-esterfy in the body but don’t worry about that for now, just know that it takes a long time.
When you are setting up a cycle you need to bear these times in mind.
Do something like this:
W 1-6 Dbol 10mg 3x/day
W 1-12 Test Enth 250mg 2x/w
or this
W 1-6 Dbol 10mg 3x/day
W 1-14 Test Enth 250mg 2x/week
W 1-12 Deca 300mg 1x/week
This way the dbol starts you off while you are waiting for the test and deca to work. You keep running test after the deca because it will take less time to clear and you might wanna be able to get a hard on.
With a cycle like this you also might wanna think about what you are goin to do when you stop to get your natural test back and you might wanna have something just in case to deal with estrogen if it becomes a problem? I’ll let you figure that out though. Search Post Cycle Therapy, Nolva, and Test taper…that should get you started.
FOR the love of god post what you are gonna do before you do it.[/quote]
Nice post with good easy info. And I had to laugh because I could actually feel the “furious” in FuriousGeorge as I read it…hehe
I just thought I’d add one thing on what seems an implicit assumption of the post:
The effect of androgens on tendency towards fatness has a lot of individual variation. Most have a good benefit in this regard from androgens and in effect have a lower “setpoint” with regard to bodyfat percentage; or said differently, a lower bodyfat percentage at which point it again becomes difficult to lose further fat without losing muscle or at what point dieting becomes psychologically onerous. Actually these are two different points in most cases but the concept applies either way.
Some have truly remarkable benefit, with no real change except androgens taking them from fatsos to moderately lean. It seems to me that it tends to be endomorphs among whom the best success stories in this regard are most likely.
A few see very little effect in this regard. For example I see a modest benefit in this with HCG, but from the standpoint of where the setpoint is without the dieting being challenging, no benefit whatsoever from androgens. But that is not the usual.
With regard to the general idea of adjusting androgen use during a cycle to match up with changes in bodyfat during the cycle, I personally can’t see a benefit to it relative to simply using throughout the cycle the dose that the user intends to use as the best-gains amount.
ok, first thanks for the replys it’s good to be able to just jump on the pc and save myself lot of hassle further down the line.
So if i built the cycle as so:
W 1-6 Dbol 10mg 3x/day
W 1-12 Test Enth 250mg 2x/w
as suggested, how would i go about the dose spacing?
with the dbol, you have reccomended 3x 10mg/day, i have read throughout this forum, albeit, mostly with dbol only cycles, that dbol at a low dose is best taken all at once in the morning so as to lessen nat. test suppression.
I train around 5pm during the week and mornings - around 6:30 @ weekends, so, if i was to take the dbol all at once in the mornings, it can see it would be of an advantage to me for morning lifting sessions but not for evening sessions as blood levels would obviously be down.
Then again, with the test e, blood levels should be more stable and alot of suppression is inevitable anyway?
sorry such a jumbled post.
btw, ran things past the guys at the gym but they couldnt understand me as there heads were firmly lodged up their ass when it comes to cycles lol
as reguards most common cycle where i live, those 2 drugs are the most easily available at reasonable prices, but hell ill pay more to do it right.
thanks again (specially furiousgeorge) and thanks in advance for anymore advice given