I think the answer is to constantly switch routines. Hard and heavy low reps for 6-8 weeks. Then switch to lighter higher reps. Also, rotate things in like drop sets, pre exhauton and the others. Eat clean and get 8 hours of sleep. There is a lot of science lately but I trust those who have done it over those who study those who have done it.
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Iām not a research pro, or even bro, but Iām not really convinced by those studies of the Pre Exhaust Technique.
Every body-builder knows leg extensions are for tear-drops, not quad sweeps.
Leg presses are just barely a ācompound move.ā I donāt even read muscle and fitness anymore, but I know Hack Squats or 1 legged presses turned sideways in the seat are better for quadus sweepus.
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Yeah I never interpreted the reason for pre-exhaust as to stimulate more electrical activation (as measured by a machine) ā¦ But to further fatigue the fibers beyond what would normally be achieved without the pre-exhaust, and to increase the āfeelingā (MMC) of the muscles being worked, thus allowing you the focus the load on the targeted muscles.
Although you could also pre-exhaust the triceps before a bench press to ātake them outā of the movement and hit the pecs more if you are prone to using your triās.
I never really heard, or understood it to be the case, that it was suppose to allow for more activation of the muscles.
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Another confounding factor is that there is some ambivalence in what is meant by the term āpre exhaust.ā It seems like in the study, they take it to mean āperform a set of an isolation exercise to failure, and then IMMEDIATELY perform the compound exercise.ā It seems commonsensical to me that this would lead to less muscle activation during the compound exercise.
Alternatively, guys like John Meadows and Shelby Starnes use a similar but distinct technique of exercise sequencing, where the first exercise for a body part is meant to engorge the target muscle with blood while creating as little joint stress as possible. This may or may not be an isolation exercise and may or may not be taken to failure, and is not followed immediately (as in supersetted) with another exercise. So itās kinda sorta pre-exhaust, but not really.
Iām sure you know all this, but from my perspective it has some bearing on the results of that study.
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This is the sort of message, that taken too far, leads to some of the problems with attaining a symmetrical physique with enough mass (including mass in the right areas).
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The results of the studies are right. The article citing it is wrong, or at least incomplete, in a bodybuilding context because the subjects in the study would have to be experienced bodybuilders skilled in training muscles and not movements for the points of the article to be valid.
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I also see people who have absolutely zero muscle mass spending 30 minute training wrist and forearms.
Obviously both methods can be taken too far and I feel that finding the right mix between both approaches that suits the individual is always gonna be the best option. We donāt all fit a certain box. You have found what works for you, I have found what your for me, they differ but so what! You only know what donāt work for you by trying it, studies donāt mean much.
Iām willing to try what ever you did to build those legs though!
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Good point man. I remember reading about Meadows liking to do ham curls before squat, getting blood in the muscle and feeling more supported during his squat.
Yeah for sure! Just goes to show another reason why we canāt base our training solely on āstudies,ā and why so many lifters like to āpre-exhaustā in some fashion, either through direct isolation to compound movement, or āwarming upā a muscle to support a compound movement. It works!
Edit: just adding one more thought, I think anything we can do that we feel is working for us is beneficial and worth implementing in our programs. A lot of great BBers come up with their own methods that might be unconventional but obviously get them great results!
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Are you trying to tell me that itās okay to do something in the gym even if nobody has published a peer-reviewed study about it?
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only if youāre natural
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Unfortunately Iām not. Im hypothyroid so I take a low dose of t3/t4 daily. Lost my natty status 
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We know having highly elevated test levels can have huge impacts on muscle size but do you have any data that shows that difference in test levels within normal ranges has an effect on performance/muscle gain in trained individuals?
Last time I took an interest there was nothing and times change but if there is still nothing Iām not sure what the relevance of fluctuations are.
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Well, now you have a distinct advantage over @maverick88. Donāt let him catch you giving out advice on fat loss.
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True story.[quote=ādt79, post:136, topic:221756ā]
Well, now you have a distinct advantage over @maverick88. Donāt let him catch you giving out advice on fat loss.
[/quote]
hahahaha[quote=ārobstein, post:131, topic:221756ā]
Alternatively, guys like John Meadows and Shelby Starnes use a similar but distinct technique of exercise sequencing, where the first exercise for a body part is meant to engorge the target muscle with blood while creating as little joint stress as possible.
Good point man. I remember reading about Meadows liking to do ham curls before squat, getting blood in the muscle and feeling more supported during his squat
[/quote]
This is what I was talking about in Robās new thread on the MMC. I took this thing John Meadows mentioned about leg curls before squats and began applying it to a bunch of other muscle groups. Itās not the end-all-be-all, but if youāre having trouble feeling a certain muscle group, this will work wonders for you.
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Yes, there has/is.
From a site with studies linked, of which I can not post.
"First Realise that a man with natural Total T levels of 600 ng/dl and a same exact man who does TRT with Total T levels at 600 ng/dl will experience much different results when weight training or even without it.
In this study healthy young males were administered different dosages of Testosterone: 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600-mg, there caloric intake and protein intake was the same for all groups, 36Kcal per KG, that would be maintenance calories for most, and their protein intake was 1.2 gram per KG, Thats around 80 grams of protein for a 70 kg guy, or 154 in pounds. The ones who received 125mg, had Total T levels at around 55o ng/dl. This is well within normal range and personally i consider it on a lower side. Yet this men saw 3.4 KG fat free mass gain even when their protein was 0.5 grams per Pound. Thats 7.5 pounds gain of fat free mass in 5 months without even doing any weightlifting whatsoever with very low protein intake even by our standards!
How is this possible? Your body produces and metabolises Testosterone differently then the injected one. Your body production is highest during the night and the levels of testosterone is highest in morning, then it slowly goes down towards the evening in a pulsating fashion, with Morning levels being on average about 120 ng/dl higher than evening levels. Combined with being highly dependant and responding fast to your lifestyle factors like Sleep amount.
While on TRT or a cycle, depending on the ester (Cypionate, Propionate, Ethanate) your levels peak shortly after the injection and stay mostly same for couple days and then start slowly declining. Here are model so you understand.
Even with same levels, man on TRT will gain muscle mass even without a stimuli, do to prolonged Protein Synthesis caused by steady T levels through out days and a week"
There are others but, what is the point?
I donāt disagree that in untrained individuals you can carry more muscle without training if you have higher test (Iāve argued for this before on here) but that isnāt the question I asked.
I want to know for a trained population whether different test levels that are still within normal ranges makes a difference (I also have no issue saying that highly elevated test levels have a huge impact)
Differences in T levels within the normal range definitely affect the body composition of trained men:
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.full#BIBL
Edited to correct a content error pointed out by @maverick88
Pftā¦ I can gain 10lbs of lbm on dbol in a week without lifting. Do you really believe skeletal muscle mass can be built so fast? What do you think is happening here?
Whatās the big deal? Of course there are going to be some mild advantages but itās not like anyone here on TRT is deciding to crash a natural show. This is not a reason to start crying, āNO, SHUT UP! YOUāRE ENHANCED!ā
Your arguments were baseless. You are just like those noobs with no experience in what you are talking about quoting studies blindly.
Yes, I know. Water LOL I dont drink cyanide and I know it will poison me despite no experience with it.
Exactly. Why would it not?