Body Worth and Self-Image

Off Topic
1

Hey T-people. I was not sure which forum to place this post, but here goes.

Most men and women on these forums are looking to improve their bodies and hopefully their minds, lives, etc. At least that is the way it appears to me. So, with the improvement of our bodies and our minds in the spotlight does that change our perceptions of our own body worth and/or self image?

Let me explain what I mean by these terms (i.e. body worth and self image) using myself as an example. I have taken a lot of time to improve my body and mind through hard work (both in the gym and in the classroom), and I am sure many of you forum members have as well. I am also a 22 year old male, and I have a slightly unique outlook when it comes to my body and my self. Before I can describe what I am referring to let me relate the following assumption:

Essentially, I believe that in our culture and in many other cultures women’s bodies have been praised, cherished, and protected as the beacon of purity and health (not to mention a beacon for life, childbirth). However, men’s bodies do not receive this same type of attention, and are not worth as much as a woman’s body.

Now, I am referring to more current history because we all know that in the past oftentimes having a son was the most important thing. Anyways, I digress.

Back to the main point. This assumption that women’s bodies are inherently worth more in our culture leads to women protecting their bodies, choosing their mates carefully (well most of the time…hahaha), and requiring men to compete for these cherished female forms.

My belief in this age of after the women’s movement, feminism, and the supposed equality of humankind goes something like this…A man’s body as well as a woman’s body is be to appreciated and cherished. Men and women are not a dime a dozen, but unique individuals and should be treated as such. Nevertheless, those men and women who choose to take care of their bodies, further their growth in mind and other aspects of their life can and should demand a partner and hopefully friends who recognize these pursuits.

Personally, I am very picky about the type of women that I date not based purely on looks or cup size, but on observations of that person striving towards goals. Furthermore, I have the right to do this (i.e. be picky) because I am also striving for goals and working hard to obtain them. Therefore, I do not go out and hook-up with any random woman because I feel as if I am worth more than that. My body is to be given only to those who are worthy, and while this type of thinking can lead to egoism or elitism, I still think there should be a place for it in our society.

Whew!! Sorry for the seemingly endless diatribe. For those of you wanting the main point here it is.

I believe that as a man my body and mind is worth something. Although I am a sexual being (animal at times); I think about my own body image and derive self-worth from it as well as from my continuous drive towards excellence in other aspects of my life.

Now, what do people think? Do people agree? Do people, especially men on these forums derive increased self worth from their achievements, and if so do they see a disparity between what a man is worth and what a woman is worth (in terms of body worth)? I would also like to hear from women on this forum. Do you ladies think of men as a dime a dozen? What are your thoughts or opinions on your own body worth/ self-image?

I apologize for the length of my post, but I have thought about this discrepancy between body worth between men and women for a long time, and wanted to see what other people think.

Thanks…

2

Absolutely.

Unconsciously, your market value as a sexual being, and yes, as a human being in general, rises if you concentrate on your appearance.

Your confidence automatically comes across to other people, and they notice that you have something worth.
It is that way in work or among people of the opposing sex or same sex.
Men and women automatically make selections based on very subjective criteria, without knowing they do.
As a man between women, this d?finately applies.

How many women with good curves and, among which because of the attention she gets coming from those curves, a decent selfesteem, you see? I take it plenty.
Now how many men do you see who have a well taken care of body and self-image?
Very few.

I’m not saying the average women is better than the average man in terms of quality or selfesteem, but women do get more attention naturally from men, regardless of many other factors that improve their self-image, such as a good job, good education, decent manners, good hobbies, etcetera.
Men in general are just not that picky.
And women benefit from the attention they get from the average, non-picky man, with better self-esteem.

On the other hand, women are more picky because of the attention from that many men, and they need to make some more definte selection.

As a man who takes care of himself and his self-image, you do come out better, have no doubt about that.
Women just know better than the average man than to make a strong man know she finds him “all that”, and that may give some men doubts about themselves, even if they are far better in market-value than others.

So in conclusion, if women can learn to say more regularly “fuck you’re hot!” to unknown trained men, all will be well …

3

I’m not entirely clear on just what your question is, but I’ll chime in since I’ve been thinking about this topic for a while…

Slider wrote:
“Essentially, I believe that in our culture and in many other cultures women’s bodies have been praised, cherished, and protected as the beacon of purity and health (not to mention a beacon for life, childbirth). However, men’s bodies do not receive this same type of attention, and are not worth as much as a woman’s body.”

What you call praised, cherished and protected seems more like “objectified” to me. A woman’s mind, wants, needs, talents, etc. have not historically been cherished, just her body. And if that body is imperfect in some way, she is cast aside. Be careful what you wish for…

That aside, I commend you and anyone else who actively works to better themselves. You sound like a driven person and are looking for a similar drive in a significant other. Sounds good to me. I suspect some of these issues may work themselves out as you get a little older. Maybe you should try dating an older woman? (just a thought that came to me while I was typing…)

Personally, I have felt my self-esteem get better over the last few months that I’ve been working out. I’ve always been athletic and took my body for granted. Being pregnant and having a baby changed everything for me. Suddenly this body was a stranger, and not one I particularly liked. Run? Hah! I could barely waddle. Remember those perky B cups? Hah! Stretch them to an F and beyond and see what happens…stretch marks…peeing when I sneeze…the list goes on (but I won’t, I promise!)

So now that I’ve got my two kids and am done (SOOO done!) procreating, I am left with this body. I have decided not to accept this as my fate and am determined to improve the parts I can possibly improve (and daydream about a breast lift and tummy tuck).

I want to be the “hot Mom” when my boys are older. I want to feel strong again. I want to feel attractive again. Does that make me self-absorbed? I know good self-esteem makes for a better person, which in turn will help make me a better wife and mother… But where is the line between self-improvement and self-involvement? Confidence and vanity?

My guess is that like everything else in life, it’s a balancing act… Any thoughts?

4

Leeuwer and Jilly your comments are much appreciated.

Leeuwer… your final sentence about women telling men that they are hot gets a definite nod from me. I think that if women want equality then it should not be a biased equality. In other words, I think it is awesome when a nice looking woman has an awesome body and is staying fit or working towards her goals. I would love to tell her that I think she looks good, but that is a no no in our society for whatever reason and the same is true with roles reversed (i.e. woman wanting to compliment a guy on his physique)

Jilly…I apologize for my rambling post. I have a hard time communicating my point because it seems so obvious to me. However, your point about being young is a good one. I mean when people are out partying and getting hammered having sex with random ass people to boost their ego I am getting stronger, bigger, faster and working towards an awesome career. I like to have fun also, but I am one of those guys who prefers some quality time with quality people. Some people have called this elitism, but I think that it is just having goals, priorities, and a good sense of self worth. Of course as you mentioned everything needs to be somewhat in balance otherwise elitism, egoism, etc can take over.

On another random note…I have noticed as I have gotten older that people are increasingly rude and hostile. Not necessarily to me, but to the world in general.

Example1: I was driving today and the light turned green at a stoplight, I began to accelerate, and up ahead a large number of people were crossing the street. Taking their sweet time jaywalking, but I slowed down and came to a stop, but as I did one dude gave the oncoming traffic (including myself) the finger.

Example 2: I am in the grocery store and when I am in someone’s way I say “excuse me,” hell I even say “excuse me” when I am not really in the way. People just rush by and don’t say anything? Is this normal? I mean what happened to politeness, good manners? I mean you can be a raging T-man in the gym, but I assumed that common courtesy was part of a T-man and T-woman’s repertoire. Clearly, many people in this world need to take some happy pills and get their shit together because if this stuff keeps happening then I may flip out.

Another diatribe. Thanks for the comments. Keep them coming.

5

JillyBop13 wrote:

“But where is the line between self-improvement and self-involvement? Confidence and vanity?”

Whoops, I missed this question and wanted to comment. Briefly, I promise.

I am struggling with this problem because when I do date women I am prone to taking care of them (raised by a southern woman myself). Therefore, I open doors and show women a great deal of respect. Anyways, many of these women are usually stunned by the fact that I have something to say that is interesting along with wanting to know about them (not fake want to get in your pants knowledge, but actually wanting to see what makes them tick). Furthermore, I take them to nice places and am not unhappy spending a little extra because I enjoy good food and/or entertainment.

What ends up happening is that most (notice I stress most not all) of these women end up liking me and sometimes I like them, but after a few weeks (max) I get bored because they get complacent, and by complacent I mean they only want to do things I want to do or they have no input into the relationship. This phenomenon is partly my fault because I am a control freak in some ways, but I like a women with a little spunk. I like to be put in my place and led at times. Essentially, I find that I am always the leader, and it gets boring.

Anyways, the point Jillybop13 is that my confidence is fairly high, but my vanity is also up there because these women seemingly fall head over heels for me. Unfortunately, my own confidence and vanity does not lead to happiness. Doh! So, I think that your idea about dating older women is a good idea, but I also think that I need to let people grow up a little bit. College is great, but many people in college seem to feel as if members of the opposite sex are there for sex. hookups, or to take care of them (i.e. boyfriends or girlfriends for comfort).

I am disappointed by this outlook, and have been my whole college career, although what I can do about it seems to elude me. Comments welcome…

6

Anyone else have any comments or opinions? I was going to let the thread die, but I wanted to hear from some other people. Thanks…

7

Interesting topic.

Body. Mind. Improving one improves the other. All while one is no guarantee of the other, either.

Intesting synergy and paradox. :slight_smile:

8

Really interesting thread.

I’ll TRY to articulate my thoughts on the matter and hopefully will not have totally missed the point :slight_smile:

I think it’s important to have goals, both in improving mind and body or whatever you consider WORTHY, and succeeding certainly raises my sense of self worth.

I often find myself judging people when they say they are content coasting along in their 9-5 jobs, going home, watching TV and going to bed. I always think, where are your goals, what are you doing with your life??? I’m currently in shitty office jobs for the next 5 weeks as i am saving to go on my travels. I consider this a worthy goal, an adventure, a character building and life changing experience. I’m surrounded by men and women who have grown roots. They have been doing a job for years that I know offers them no inspiration and no challenge. I’m certain these people could do better if they changed their attitudes, and I don’t think I’m better than them. I just find it hard to comprehend, sad and frankly uncomfortable.

Some of the women are physically attractive, they have good hearts but are missing the vital ingredient. I don’t consider them girlfriend material simply because of their attitude towards life. I want a woman who has drive and ambition in her career and athletic endeavours.

I agree there is a fine line between confidence and vanity. I always try to tell myself there is no such thing as a better person, we are simply better than each other in different ways.