Twenty year lurker here. I started reading tnation when I first heard the word ‘squat’ as a freshman in highschool and now I’m 34 and doing bloodwork. Been digging through this process and now I could use some perspective.
Went to functional med doctor in December - recovery down the shitter, libido very low, feeling tired constantly regardless of sleep consistancy and diet. No go. Did bloodwork in December and again a couple weeks ago. Vitamin bloodwork good, diet/sleep/workouts solid and consistent.
He put me on 250 iu HCG EOD for six weeks. Then stopped HCG and then sermorelin every night 100iu fro six weeks. Seemed like I felt a bit better- didn’t drag as much. Did blood work again a week later after stopping the sermorelin, which was five weeks. after stopping hcg. THe number in parantheses below is the change from the first blood work.
DHEA: 1000 (same. he asked if I was taking a supplement because this number was high. I’m not)
Estrone: 21 (+1)
LH: 3.5 (-.5)
Estradiol: 27.4 (+14)
Free T: 451 (+30)
DihydroT:41
Dehydroepi: 411 (-200)
SHBG: 37 (-2)
He wants me to repeat the original plan + a supplement called CDG EstroDIM. He said because of the week gap the Testtosterone level was ‘probably’ 600.
$250 for both the hcg and sermorelin. What say you kind gentlemen?
-Matt
Edit: will add quest ranges when I get home tomorrow.
I say peak T has nothing to do with day to day reality. Your free T was up, but you really don’t know until a month or so later where you really sit. The bump from the treatment could be very transitory.
If I understand correctly, you’re saying a blood test a month after would be more indicative of the actual results?
What do you think about the current numbers and the plan going forward? Just trying to gauge my doctor in the scheme of doctors based on everyone’s collective experience.
I think that he’s screwing around at high cost and not fixing anything. HCG mimics LH, so you are suppressing your pituitary production of LH by taking HCG. It of course gives you a boost, because it is at a higher level than your LH was. He doesn’t give you anything to stimulate the pituitary though, so you are going to suppress it twice and leave yourself at lower everything for at least the short term, and you are not likely to ever surpass where you started so you are no further ahead when you finish. He’s also clueless regarding the peptides that he’s giving you. A GH stimulator is great, but not likely to actually do anything discernible for you, the CDG EstroDIM is likely to at best do nothing, or actually work and crash your low E2 numbers.With HCG you are at normal E2, not high, so there’s no need to try and modulate or control it.
In short, you’re getting fleeced with almost no possibility of a positive outcome. What you are taking is supposed to boost your system (although it’s not very well designed to do that) kind of like push starting a car. So success is better levels when all of these supplements have left your system, in a month or so after finishing the course of treatment. It’s like taking an ibuprofen and expecting the brain tumour to go away on it’s own while the ibuprofen is in your system.
Interesting! Thanks for the information. That helps a great deal. This is obviously my first experience with this stuff so I’m learning what questions to ask. The stickies here are great.
Doesn’t sermorelin stimulate the pituitary ? Maybe that’s why he prescribed that after Hcg.
I’ll find a new guy. He was a functional medicine doctor. Ill Look for someone more specialized in hormones. Gotta get this business fixed. I’m in eastern Michigan so if anyone has suggestions please make them.
If anyone else has opinions on the numbers and where to go from here, please share. People helping people get feeling awesome. Thanks all for the help.
The stickies here are not great. (unless they’ve been changed recently when someone else called them out) For instance much of the info about keeping estrogen at 22 or 1mg anastrozole per 100mg testosterone is no longer a standard cookie cutter plan that everyone should follow. You are better off using the search button and looking at more recent posts to get the best up-to-date info. If you read the posts from 2016 and compare them to the advice given currently you see a big difference.
I’ve heard good things about defy so you are on the right track.
Ah, thanks for that! I’ve been reading through them to learn vocabulary and such. Maybe another good sticky would be “only stickies from 2017 on should apply”!
Just a quick word about my initial experience with Defy:
On. Their. Game.
Quick, informative about the process and how I should go about getting the bloodwork and physical. Answered my questions before I asked them. Laid out the schedule of things. You can tell they’ve done this A LOT. Created a lot of “buy in”. Just have worked with the intake person, Mary, and she’s on top of things. Did bloodwork today. Will check back in after consult.
34 years old, 190 lbs
CBC WIth Differential - all in range
Metabolic Panel
Alkaline Phosphatase - Low- 21 Range 39-117
Fasted glucose- 91
Testosterone, Serum 471 Range 264-916
Free Testosterone - Low- 8.0 Range 8.7-25.1
Dihydrotestosterone 54
Thyroxine (T4) 1.42 Range .82-1.77
DHEA sulfate 391.3 Rnage 138-475
TSH .775 range .450-4.5
LH 6.1 range 1.7-8.6
Prolactin 11.6 range 4.0-15.2
IGF-1 144 range 88-246
Revers T3 21.5 range 9-24
Estradiol 23.6 range 8.-35.0
SHBG 48.7 range 16.5-55.9
What are some questions I should have for Dr. Saya? Expectations of what the protocol might be?