I should follow up by saying that many guys I’ve spoken to at the gym that seem well versed in trt tell me to try to stop at a T level that supports healthy libido, erection, etc. and if it happens to be 1000 they tell me that they’ve been at that level for some time.
@guy45
The the average life span of male doctors in the US is 63-70. I would advise him to choose a different career path as it’s associated with an increased risk of death from heart attack & stroke.
My HCT & Hemoglobin are lower than most people pre-trt levels. Internists & GP’s likely aren’t extremely interested in the most up-to-date literature on testosterone supplementation especially if they think 1000 is that bad. There’s way more variables to it than a total T number and genetics plays a big role. Most won’t need that high of levels and won’t reach that high of levels on 185mg and my free T is much lower than a normal person’s whose total T is 2000. Each person reacts differently to a certain dosage. You find what works for you. I’ve been blessed to have an amazing life full of experiences and if I go early I won’t have any regrets. That said I would like to keep my reservation as long as I’m able to and actively work towards that. The person I am today on TRT lives a much healthier life.
For the record I’ve never told anyone that having a 2000 total T is where they need to be. I worked from 100mg in 20mg increments to the 185-200mg I’m at today. It’s what works for me. Most would probably feel better at 1000 than 2000. More doesn’t mean you feel better.
Thanks for that reply. I’m new to this forum and have been asking some questions here and really reading and trying to increase my knowledge as it relates to T. I’m trying to get my friend to see a T doc as I’ve done and do the appropriate blood work and go from there.
And I never thought you eluded to a T number to strive for. I’ve read yours and other members replies as simply good information to read and attempt to understand and research more if I need to. I’ve also taken some advice from you and maybe one other which made good sense to me and I appreciate it.
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Nonsense. I keep my free T in the mid 300’s pg/ml (ref 46 - 224) and have even drifted into the 500’s as few times. But any time my E2 rises above the 20’s and gets to 30+, I get symptoms. In fact at low 20’s I feel considerably better than at high 20’s.
@gtron let me guess… Weekly shots?
The answer is really simple: nobody knows simply because there isn’t a single long term properly designed study available.
The longest studies, which weren’t designed at all to answer the question of TRT side effects were something like 5 to 8 years.
Take smoking cigarettes as an example (and I am by no means implying TRT is like smoking regarding its impact on health).
It’s health consequences are only apparent after 15 to 20 years of smoking. So if you do a study which lasts even 10 years smoking a pack per day wouldn’t show any negative impact on lung cancer development at all.
I am by no means against TRT. I am a firm believer that the benefits by far outweigh the risks if done properly. From a risk perspective this means to keep it at the lowest effective dose.
Nope. I’ve done everything up to and including daily, and found for me that twice weekly is best. I personally know guys who do daily and swear by that. One guy I know does weekly (oh the horror) and yet he gets the best results of anyone I’ve even known or even seen on these boards. So he’s happy with that. The point is, everyone is different and there is no, “everyone needs to ditch the AI” or everyone anything, because everyone has individual responses.
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Yeah and that’s very similar to what I hear guys at the gym saying. At least the ones who tell me that they’ve been on T for a while and seem very familiar with it. Having seen mainstream dr’s for checkups over the years, it’s always “well your number is at the low end of normal but still in the norm, therefore TRT wouldn’t benefit you. “ That was told to me by a Stanford Urologist a few months ago when I took blood work before deciding to go back on trt. I’m no dr but I knew that statement was BS.
I agree there are guys doing wonderfully with weekly and twice weekly injections. I say it all the time. It’s the guys that aren’t dialed in yet where I suggest daily or, at the very least, EOD. Protocols and doses will vary. No physician I deal with is prescribing an AI to any of their patients. They used to and don’t anymore. I guess you could say they have seen the light as it has been demonstrated with their patients. This is what is being reported back to me so I tell what they tell me.
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When I took T Cypionate before it was 100mg once per week. That was because I complained that the 200mg every two weeks had me crashing after about 6-7 days maybe. And then I had to wait for another injection to feel better again. That was ridiculous. So then he went weekly. Weekly was ok for me. Yeah after maybe 5 days I noticed a decline but then I’d take it again on the 6th day.
As I start it again now, if there’s an issue I would consider doing a more frequent schedule. And as for the Anastrozole, she gave me .50 to take once a week. I now take .25 . She wanted to try and prevent the slight gyno that I experienced before. If I find problems with the Anastrozole then I’d surely take even less or reduce the T dose. I just don’t want to reduce the T and lose the benefits of it. It seems to be a fine line there…
I will tell you what had me pissed off and frustrated as hell. When I went back to an endo recently as I wanted to resume trt, he gave me the blood work and kept saying “we’ll talk about T therapy at our next meeting.” Then when I went back, he gave me a T therapy 101 that lasted about an hour. (Even though he new I was on T a few yrs back.) Really emphasized the downside risks. Then he told me he was a newer endo and wanted me to see a Urologist for a second opinion.
Ok…so I did. I went to a guy at Stanford who I heard was experienced. He gave me a physical exam and looked at my blood work. He said “my balls were by no means small”…and that physically he finds nothing wrong…and that my T level is on the lower side of norm but still in the norm and therefore it wouldn’t benefit me. Then I told him that I took T a few yrs back and it it addressed the erections and sensitivity issue I’d been complaining about. And I’d like him to comment on that. It basically brought it all back. When I told him that, he said then I should go back to the endo and talk about it. I did so and the endo said he was going to take the advice of the Urologist because he has more experience.
Do you know how fucking mad I was? That was all a bunch of horse shit!!! I then investigated and found a T clinic in SF and am back on T now.
That makes my head hurt. It’s like you found the answer, told the doctor what would fix you, and he just flat out refused to do it.
Are they really taught T is so dangerous that they wouldn’t even let you try it? I don’t see any other explanation.
SSRI’s are 10x worse and I bet either of them would have given you those.
Yeap! Stanford guy asked me if I had performance anxiety. I said I never have. I just haven’t had that issue. He asked if I wanted to try Wellbutrin. Again I told him that I really don’t want any meds like that. And that T helped me greatly in the past. It was just a frustrating experience.
Try doing more frequent injections without lowering dose and you will be able to ditch the AI.
I also had an endo say that my balls were too big to have low T even though the labs showed 220. Also the fact that I had two kids meant they were functioning normally.
Just because they are doctors doesn’t mean they are intelligent or knowledgeable.
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Sorry you went through that and wasted your time and money. This is why it is best to go where they just do TRT or HRT (women need testosterone too). You would think a urologist or endocrinologist would be the place to go, but usually that is not the case.
Before I left that last endo appt, he asked me if I ever considered getting a pump. I said no why would I? He said it would ensure erections. I asked him if he forgot my chief complaint about lack of sensitivity in my penis! I told him that when the sensitivity came back on T, I was able to be stimulated for full healthy erections and it solved my issue!
I mean, SHIT!!! I had to tell him before I left that I felt I received bad service from him and that he either didn’t listen to my experience from taking T in the past or just really worked to try to change my mind from wanting to take it and I just left.
Sorry for rambling but that was just ridiculous. The current T dr made sure I took a bunch of blood tests, sat down with me for about an hour and asked my previous experience on T. She said she’ll prescribe it and wants me to check in every 3 months an update my progress with blood work.and to check in on the sensitivity and erections, libido. I was satisfied with that and now I’m starting again as of yesterday actually.
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It’s clear as ever that some doctors are afraid of TRT and will ignore, make excuses why you shouldn’t be on it because they prefer not to prescribe it.
Sorry to hear that you had to go through this - that’s really fucked up!
It really makes me appreciate the medical service I get in my country. After blood work done twice (slightly below and slightly above the ref range) and a questioner about the symptoms of androgen deficiency he handed me over a script for T first and then we talked about potential side effects of the treatment. After about an hour of conversation he asked me if I am still ok with the proposed T treatment.
And I pay nothing, neither for the consultation nor for the T itself.
Just curious where you are, if you don’t mind sharing?
I’m betting Austria. What’s the prize if I win?
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