[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
And Martin was found lying face down, so let’s see if he was shot in the back… so according to you, he kicked Zimmerman’s ass and was heading home.[/quote]
Are you kidding?
Martin was shot in the chest.
This is readily available information.
Why was there no conversation?
Why did Zimmerman not call out, identify himself and say:“hey kid, I am the neighborhood watch, are you visiting someone here?”
No, instead he stalked him, and got out of his car, while he was told to stay put. With a fucking gun. There is no denying he got out of the car. Even if the kid went to the car to confront him, Zimmerman still had the opportunity to say the above and explain why he was tailing the kid.
Instead he got out. A much bigger man, with a gun, got out of the car to confront the kid. That’s not conjecture, that happened. You cannot get your ass handed to you when in the car, doors and windows locked.
It is the kid here who could, if he were still alive, claim self defense. What the fuck would you do if a much larger man was following you and after being asked why he was, got out of the car to confront you?
You would not swing first?
The larger man instigated, thought he was dealing with a punk he could handle without the police and got his ass handed to him. He then proceeded to be a fucking coward and shoot the kid.
No it is not murder, but it is manslaughter. He acted outside of the rules of self defense. The law is clear on those things. This is NOT stand your ground.
And how the hell can anyone have ‘faith’ in legal when the case has so obviously been mishandled by that department. Faith in the system in general, yes, faith here, with this department, sending the wrong detective, not checking Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, releasing info very late, etc., no, not so much.
And you know what HG, you would not have shot him, because you would have communicated with the kid. You would have identified yourself and asked a question. You would have been polite and you would have solved the issue in a second. Hell, you probably would have given the kid a ride to his dad’s place!
Stop acting like a douche and retract that retarded statement of you would have shot the kid too.
I don’t know you from Adam but none of what you have posted in the past would indicate you would not communicate first.
Though it IS funny how the people CONVINCED they heard Zimmerman refer to Martin as a coon are silent after an audio expert working for a news station cleans up the tape and determined the word was “punks”.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Why was there no conversation?
Why did Zimmerman not call out, identify himself and say:“hey kid, I am the neighborhood watch, are you visiting someone here?”
No, instead he stalked him, and got out of his car, while he was told to stay put. With a fucking gun. There is no denying he got out of the car. Even if the kid went to the car to confront him, Zimmerman still had the opportunity to say the above and explain why he was tailing the kid.
Instead he got out. A much bigger man, with a gun, got out of the car to confront the kid. That’s not conjecture, that happened. You cannot get your ass handed to you when in the car, doors and windows locked.
It is the kid here who could, if he were still alive, claim self defense. What the fuck would you do if a much larger man was following you and after being asked why he was, got out of the car to confront you?
You would not swing first?
The larger man instigated, thought he was dealing with a punk he could handle without the police and got his ass handed to him. He then proceeded to be a fucking coward and shoot the kid.
No it is not murder, but it is manslaughter. He acted outside of the rules of self defense. The law is clear on those things. This is NOT stand your ground.
And how the hell can anyone have ‘faith’ in legal when the case has so obviously been mishandled by that department. Faith in the system in general, yes, faith here, with this department, sending the wrong detective, not checking Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, releasing info very late, etc., no, not so much.
And you know what HG, you would not have shot him, because you would have communicated with the kid. You would have identified yourself and asked a question. You would have been polite and you would have solved the issue in a second. Hell, you probably would have given the kid a ride to his dad’s place!
Stop acting like a douche and retract that retarded statement of you would have shot the kid too.
I don’t know you from Adam but none of what you have posted in the past would indicate you would not communicate first.
[/quote]
Fucking BEST post in this thread.
[quote]“The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, ‘Help! Help!’ and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911,” said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
“And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point.”[/quote]
Martin was also supposedly 6’2". The pictures his family submitted to the media are all (supposedly) YEARS old.
“The media also characterizes Trayvon as a â??model student.â?? In fact, he was under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night.”
Before the overly vocal morons who have been spamming this thread chime in to say I’m only posting this to justify the shooting, note that I am only doing it to help flesh out the characters better.
You know, so you can all see how the media for this (allegedly) predominantly racist country is spinning the story.
If I was TRYING to bias this thread, I’d post pictures of Trayvon’s Facebook page where he is flashing gang signs with his pants midway down to his knees.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
I feel like if he was shot as you suggested it would’ve been evident from the very beginning.
[/quote]
I’ve done my share of autopsies, and you may be correct. But it takes a while to get to the doctor.
Sometimes. Depends on how fresh the body is and how damaged, as well as other things like distance from weapon. Here, with a pistol, it should be reasonably easy. I suspect, in fact, there won’t be an exit would, which makes it a lot easier.
This would be wrong.
This would be correct and is probably why the Hispanic guy is not in prison.
Sincerly,
Mrs. Jewbacca.[/quote]
^Yeah, I knew depending on the caliber of the weapon, type of weapon, distance from the target, etc… the shape of the wound changes. I assumed because of the close range the wound would still have been mostly circular in shape with a smaller exit hole (if there was one, I thought there would be because of the close range). Was it wrong to assume that?
I thought because of that the trajectory would be easy to figure out.
I’m not a doctor but I took a basic forensics class so I’m genuinely interested. I have no first hand experience. lol
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Why was there no conversation?
Why did Zimmerman not call out, identify himself and say:“hey kid, I am the neighborhood watch, are you visiting someone here?”
No, instead he stalked him, and got out of his car, while he was told to stay put. With a fucking gun. There is no denying he got out of the car. Even if the kid went to the car to confront him, Zimmerman still had the opportunity to say the above and explain why he was tailing the kid.
Instead he got out. A much bigger man, with a gun, got out of the car to confront the kid. That’s not conjecture, that happened. You cannot get your ass handed to you when in the car, doors and windows locked.
It is the kid here who could, if he were still alive, claim self defense. What the fuck would you do if a much larger man was following you and after being asked why he was, got out of the car to confront you?
You would not swing first?
The larger man instigated, thought he was dealing with a punk he could handle without the police and got his ass handed to him. He then proceeded to be a fucking coward and shoot the kid.
No it is not murder, but it is manslaughter. He acted outside of the rules of self defense. The law is clear on those things. This is NOT stand your ground.
And how the hell can anyone have ‘faith’ in legal when the case has so obviously been mishandled by that department. Faith in the system in general, yes, faith here, with this department, sending the wrong detective, not checking Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, releasing info very late, etc., no, not so much.
And you know what HG, you would not have shot him, because you would have communicated with the kid. You would have identified yourself and asked a question. You would have been polite and you would have solved the issue in a second. Hell, you probably would have given the kid a ride to his dad’s place!
Stop acting like a douche and retract that retarded statement of you would have shot the kid too.
I don’t know you from Adam but none of what you have posted in the past would indicate you would not communicate first.
[/quote]
Fucking BEST post in this thread.
[/quote]
Absolutely, I agree
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Why was there no conversation?
Why did Zimmerman not call out, identify himself and say:“hey kid, I am the neighborhood watch, are you visiting someone here?”
No, instead he stalked him, and got out of his car, while he was told to stay put. With a fucking gun. There is no denying he got out of the car. Even if the kid went to the car to confront him, Zimmerman still had the opportunity to say the above and explain why he was tailing the kid.
Instead he got out. A much bigger man, with a gun, got out of the car to confront the kid. That’s not conjecture, that happened. You cannot get your ass handed to you when in the car, doors and windows locked.
It is the kid here who could, if he were still alive, claim self defense. What the fuck would you do if a much larger man was following you and after being asked why he was, got out of the car to confront you?
You would not swing first?
The larger man instigated, thought he was dealing with a punk he could handle without the police and got his ass handed to him. He then proceeded to be a fucking coward and shoot the kid.
No it is not murder, but it is manslaughter. He acted outside of the rules of self defense. The law is clear on those things. This is NOT stand your ground.
And how the hell can anyone have ‘faith’ in legal when the case has so obviously been mishandled by that department. Faith in the system in general, yes, faith here, with this department, sending the wrong detective, not checking Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, releasing info very late, etc., no, not so much.
And you know what HG, you would not have shot him, because you would have communicated with the kid. You would have identified yourself and asked a question. You would have been polite and you would have solved the issue in a second. Hell, you probably would have given the kid a ride to his dad’s place!
Stop acting like a douche and retract that retarded statement of you would have shot the kid too.
I don’t know you from Adam but none of what you have posted in the past would indicate you would not communicate first.
[/quote]
You just created an imagined series of events.
The only thing any of us can do.
Following a person is not legal provocation for an attack.
An attack is legal provocation for justifiable homicide.
Zimmerman followed Martin this much is clear. We are still assuming his reasoning for doing so; his actual reason and what provoked him to exit his vehicle are not clear. Either way, he was within his rights.
Martin attacked Zimmerman, this much is clear. Given the most recent witness accounts, Martins homicide was legally justifiable.
Who’s to say Zimmerman didn’t talk to him? That Martin didn’t give a dumb ass response taken the wrong way, creating a dangerous false perception? More assumptions.
If it makes you feel better, instead of shooting Martin in this scenario which I won’t recant given my context, in this jury of public opinion, with the info. we have, my answer would be not guilty in favor of Zimmerman. Why? We can’t prove his guilt.
Let the investigation conclude. Let’s make sure we know what we are judging with certainty. Hello page one of the thread.
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Why was there no conversation?
Why did Zimmerman not call out, identify himself and say:“hey kid, I am the neighborhood watch, are you visiting someone here?”
No, instead he stalked him, and got out of his car, while he was told to stay put. With a fucking gun. There is no denying he got out of the car. Even if the kid went to the car to confront him, Zimmerman still had the opportunity to say the above and explain why he was tailing the kid.
Instead he got out. A much bigger man, with a gun, got out of the car to confront the kid. That’s not conjecture, that happened. You cannot get your ass handed to you when in the car, doors and windows locked.
It is the kid here who could, if he were still alive, claim self defense. What the fuck would you do if a much larger man was following you and after being asked why he was, got out of the car to confront you?
You would not swing first?
The larger man instigated, thought he was dealing with a punk he could handle without the police and got his ass handed to him. He then proceeded to be a fucking coward and shoot the kid.
No it is not murder, but it is manslaughter. He acted outside of the rules of self defense. The law is clear on those things. This is NOT stand your ground.
And how the hell can anyone have ‘faith’ in legal when the case has so obviously been mishandled by that department. Faith in the system in general, yes, faith here, with this department, sending the wrong detective, not checking Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, releasing info very late, etc., no, not so much.
And you know what HG, you would not have shot him, because you would have communicated with the kid. You would have identified yourself and asked a question. You would have been polite and you would have solved the issue in a second. Hell, you probably would have given the kid a ride to his dad’s place!
Stop acting like a douche and retract that retarded statement of you would have shot the kid too.
I don’t know you from Adam but none of what you have posted in the past would indicate you would not communicate first.
[/quote]
Everyone needs to re-read this IMO. Didn’t the police chief step down? That’s pretty telling as well I think.
[quote]anonym wrote:
“The media also characterizes Trayvon as a Ã?¢??model student.Ã?¢?? In fact, he was under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night.”
Before the overly vocal morons who have been spamming this thread chime in to say I’m only posting this to justify the shooting, note that I am only doing it to help flesh out the characters better.
You know, so you can all see how the media for this (allegedly) predominantly racist country is spinning the story.
If I was TRYING to bias this thread, I’d post pictures of Trayvon’s Facebook page where he is flashing gang signs with his pants midway down to his knees.[/quote]
I would think pictures of gang signs would help build the character for who he portrayed himself as. Unless of course flashing gang signs is just a fashion statement.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Everyone needs to re-read this IMO. Didn’t the police chief step down? That’s pretty telling as well I think.[/quote]
“As a former homicide investigator, career law enforcement officer and a father, I am keenly aware of the emotions associated with the tragic death of a child,” Lee said at a brief news conference. “While I stand by the Sanford Police Department, its personnel and the investigation that was conducted in regards to the Trayvon Martin case, it is apparent that my involvement in this matter is overshadowing the process. . . . I do this in the hopes of restoring some semblance of calm to the city, which has been in turmoil for several weeks.”
I’m sure many of you will spin that into something fantastical. This is, supposedly, only a temporary move on his part.
Note that the state attorney handling the case ALSO stepped down.
It seems that it has more to do with the national exposure and pressure than anything more insidious.
Nope, scratch that. He was suspended for TEN days.
“He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details.
His attorney also allegedly had the school file locked down.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html#storylink=cpy
…ahem
Look, you can’t expect to stalk someone, get out of your veichle and try to wrangle them without that person being on guard. Tray DID ask Zimmerman WHY he was following him. From CURRENT information, Zimmerman did not respond.
If someone was following me, got out of his car and started to chase me, demanding I stay put, I would put that bitch in the ground, and I would not stop until he was no longer a threat. Especially if he didn’t identify himself. Lets see what else comes out but I doubt much will change my opinion.
But none of this matters. Zimmerman is going to say all of the right things on the stand, even if it didn’t happen in real life. You have only one person’s side of the story because the other individual involved in the altercation is dead. Will Zimmerman say he said “Stop in the name of the neighborhood watch?” of course he will. IT’s his word against a dead mans. He can say whatever he wants. He can say Tray said “I’m going to kill you and your whole family” if he wants. Who will refute it? The neighbors only heard and saw fragments from what is understood.
Sympathizers for Zimmerman need to understand that it is NOT I REPEAT NOT within his Legal responsibility to chase and try to aprehend criminals in the name of the law. (ie, with force and altercation) Neighborhood watch are supposed to fucking WATCH. Call the police. Everything else besides that is out of bounds. I have family in law enforcement. Most of you are not from that area, You’ve probably never seen it in your life and you do not know what it is like. Instead of painting the picture from your own opinions, you need to realize one simple fact.
BITCH…SHOULD…HAVE…STAYED…IN…HIS…CAR. Everything else that occured after is his responsibility.
Zimmerman was a SELF-APPOINTED town-watch captain, and never registered this status with authorities or his community association.
Zimmerman made over forty 9-11 calls since January '11. Much of his issue was with black teens.
Zimmerman initially made the determination in his mind that Martin was up to no good.
The “Stand your ground” law no longer applied to Zimmerman once he initiated his pursuit of Martin.
Zimmerman ignored what the 911 dispatcher told him (not to follow Martin).
At that point, Martin was the one the law applied to, since Zimmerman was perceived as a threat, being much bigger, and carrying a firearm.
Martin’s school record, size, color or anything else has any significance in this case because he had no weapons, and was only returning home from the store. Zimmerman CLEARLY INSTIGATED the events that lead up to Martin’s death.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Look, you can’t expect to stalk someone, get out of your veichle and try to wrangle them without that person being on guard. Tray DID ask Zimmerman WHY he was following him. From CURRENT information, Zimmerman did not respond.
If someone was following me, got out of his car and started to chase me, demanding I stay put, I would put that bitch in the ground, and I would not stop until he was no longer a threat. Especially if he didn’t identify himself. Lets see what else comes out but I doubt much will change my opinion.
But none of this matters. Zimmerman is going to say all of the right things on the stand, even if it didn’t happen in real life. You have only one person’s side of the story because the other individual involved in the altercation is dead. Will Zimmerman say he said “Stop in the name of the neighborhood watch?” of course he will. IT’s his word against a dead mans. He can say whatever he wants. He can say Tray said “I’m going to kill you and your whole family” if he wants. Who will refute it? The neighbors only heard and saw fragments from what is understood.
Sympathizers for Zimmerman need to understand that it is NOT I REPEAT NOT within his Legal responsibility to chase and try to aprehend criminals in the name of the law. (ie, with force and altercation) Neighborhood watch are supposed to fucking WATCH. Call the police. Everything else besides that is out of bounds. I have family in law enforcement. Most of you are not from that area, You’ve probably never seen it in your life and you do not know what it is like. Instead of painting the picture from your own opinions, you need to realize one simple fact.
BITCH…SHOULD…HAVE…STAYED…IN…HIS…CAR. Everything else that occured after is his responsibility. [/quote]
That is your take anyway.
We still don’t know why he followed.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Sympathizers for Zimmerman…[/quote]
See, this is where you and others KEEP FUCKING UP.
We are NOT “sympathizing” with Zimmerman – I already wrote that I hope he gets charged with something. We are NOT justifying the shooting. We are merely offering the FACTS of the case that most all of you have either been ignorant of or unwilling to post.
We merely called BS to the reflexive emotional responses of “racism!” in the early pages of this thread, called BS to the nonsensical arguments presented throughout and tried to keep this discussion based in some sort of objective reality before this thread took a turn for the stupid.
If you happen to think that posting the FULL DETAILS of the story is somehow “sympathizing” with Zimmerman… then you are out of your friggen’ mind.
[quote]anonym wrote:
“The media also characterizes Trayvon as a Ã?¢??model student.Ã?¢?? In fact, he was under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night.”
Before the overly vocal morons who have been spamming this thread chime in to say I’m only posting this to justify the shooting, note that I am only doing it to help flesh out the characters better.
You know, so you can all see how the media for this (allegedly) predominantly racist country is spinning the story.
If I was TRYING to bias this thread, I’d post pictures of Trayvon’s Facebook page where he is flashing gang signs with his pants midway down to his knees.[/quote]
Kind of funny how you used a “White Power” website to refute this.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Martin’s school record, size, color or anything else has any significance in this case because he had no weapons, and was only returning home from the store. Zimmerman CLEARLY INSTIGATED the events that lead up to Martin’s death. [/quote]
It. Has. To. Do. With. The. Way. The. Media. Is. Spinning. This.
Follow? It’s what several of us have been pointing out since almost the beginning of this thread.