Black Teen Shot by Neighborhood Watch

Off Topic
1063

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

He’s illustrating a common sense scenario. A hunch.
Sometimes you’re thick as a rock HG.
[/quote]
Oh that’s right, likely scenarios only make sense if they fit your personal view.

1064

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I wonder if this crime would have received as much media coverage if not for the racism angle. The boy would still he dead, the shooter still free yet would many outside the family care. Let’s face It, guy shooting another guy, or a young man killed, really is not all that news worthy - as sad that is. Even the PSU scandal even became about the cover-up rather than the crime. Sometimes I wonder if our culture allows for boys and men to be victims of violence.[/quote]

If it was reversed and a white kid was shot by a black man, that black man would have been arrested IMMEDIATELY and none of this would be happening. I find it interesting that the police reported Zimmerman as a “white male” when he is very clearly Hispanic. [/quote]

I think the better question is if it were 2 white people involved, or 2 black people, would anyone even care? The media wouldn’t be covering it, that’s for sure.[/quote]

That was my point. [/quote]

Well, no one heard of the previous issue in that same city where the son of a cop beat up a black man and didn’t go to jail at all for it. That was kept out of the media unless someone here heard of it before. The previous chief lost his job for it and the new guy had only been on the force for 10 months.

For this, it isn’t JUST the races involved but the age of the person killed and the incompetency of that police department in two different cases that point to some strong racial issues in that department.

I mean…unless we can explain all of that away as coincidence since I am sure someone will think of 50 different alternatives for what could be going down besides the obvious.

1065

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

He’s illustrating a common sense scenario. A hunch.
Sometimes you’re thick as a rock HG.
[/quote]

He just thinks that using basic psychology in business and one night stands makes him top tier in human behaviour. If Trayvon tried to drag Zimmerman out of his car after suspicious pants -exploring behaviour, Zimmerman would have pulled his gun, shot Tray in self defense and justified it with Tray trying to drag him from the vehicle. The 911 call and Tray’s cell phone message simply don’t support that. What additional proof are we waiting on that will explain this? A second gun? Didn’t happen.[/quote]
Actually I think Salem witch hunts and “street justice” are bullshit. Plain and simple. I have more faith in the police than your clairevoyence, Father Freud.

1066

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I wonder if this crime would have received as much media coverage if not for the racism angle. The boy would still he dead, the shooter still free yet would many outside the family care. Let’s face It, guy shooting another guy, or a young man killed, really is not all that news worthy - as sad that is. Even the PSU scandal even became about the cover-up rather than the crime. Sometimes I wonder if our culture allows for boys and men to be victims of violence.[/quote]

If it was reversed and a white kid was shot by a black man, that black man would have been arrested IMMEDIATELY and none of this would be happening. I find it interesting that the police reported Zimmerman as a “white male” when he is very clearly Hispanic. [/quote]

I think the better question is if it were 2 white people involved, or 2 black people, would anyone even care? The media wouldn’t be covering it, that’s for sure.[/quote]

That was my point. [/quote]

Well, no one heard of the previous issue in that same city where the son of a cop beat up a black man and didn’t go to jail at all for it. That was kept out of the media unless someone here heard of it before. The previous chief lost his job for it and the new guy had only been on the force for 10 months.

For this, it isn’t JUST the races involved but the age of the person killed and the incompetency of that police department in two different cases that point to some strong racial issues in that department.

I mean…unless we can explain all of that away as coincidence since I am sure someone will think of 50 different alternatives for what could be going down besides the obvious.[/quote]

I am not saying that racism does not play a roll in all this, but rather, without it its just another guy getting gunned down.

I am glad this case has gotten attention for a variety of reasons.

I just was thinking about how boys/young men/men being killed is not really news. Thinking about this in how masculinity is framed. I am wrapped up on my class right now, discussing gender.

1067

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

Weird how every observation I’ve made on the case has been verified thus far. That’s the difference between a manipulator of people and an observer of people. Shot any blanks at anyone lately?[/quote]
And if you know this much, you’re clearly a murder. It’s the only explanation.

1068

Oh, I am pretty sure my Mom has missed out on much of the rap culture but I do not think she would think a kid in a hoodie and sagging jeans = threat or suspicious. She might wonder why his pants don’t fit but she has raised a household of teenagers, some not even her own, and let’s face it, teenagers dress funny.

And she hates Fox News. That might be important to some.

1069

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just one more point, because Tdub literally walked right into it. The following is a prime example of what I am speaking of:

First, this statement isn’t even true and I explained that above…so why do people who claim to not even listen to the music…blanket the ENTIRE FIELD OF MUSIC along with those who listen to it or dress similarly with this negative stereotype?

The belief is truly that every single rapper is acting like a criminal? Really?

OutKast raps mostly about criminal activity? Really? Shake it like a Polaroid Picture is going to kill your kids?

LOL. But culturalism is the new ‘racism’.[/quote]
Don’t play dumb. The mainstream rap culture largely embraces criminality as a badge of honor from Tupac to Eminem. Lil’ Wayne to 50 Cent. Snoop and Dre to TI. Chamillionaire and DMX and on and on and on.

And don’t even start “underground” apologetics. 3-6 Mafia, UGK, Geto Boys…

Using exceptions doesn’t build a good case at all. Turn on the fucking radio and note who’s getting play time.

Baggy pants are indeed used to conceal shit even if they did become a super gay fashion statement. Walk like a duck, talk like a duck and people will think you are a duck.

1070

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I wonder if this crime would have received as much media coverage if not for the racism angle. The boy would still he dead, the shooter still free yet would many outside the family care. Let’s face It, guy shooting another guy, or a young man killed, really is not all that news worthy - as sad that is. Even the PSU scandal even became about the cover-up rather than the crime. Sometimes I wonder if our culture allows for boys and men to be victims of violence.[/quote]

If it was reversed and a white kid was shot by a black man, that black man would have been arrested IMMEDIATELY and none of this would be happening. I find it interesting that the police reported Zimmerman as a “white male” when he is very clearly Hispanic. [/quote]

I think the better question is if it were 2 white people involved, or 2 black people, would anyone even care? The media wouldn’t be covering it, that’s for sure.[/quote]

That was my point. [/quote]

Well, no one heard of the previous issue in that same city where the son of a cop beat up a black man and didn’t go to jail at all for it. That was kept out of the media unless someone here heard of it before. The previous chief lost his job for it and the new guy had only been on the force for 10 months.

For this, it isn’t JUST the races involved but the age of the person killed and the incompetency of that police department in two different cases that point to some strong racial issues in that department.

I mean…unless we can explain all of that away as coincidence since I am sure someone will think of 50 different alternatives for what could be going down besides the obvious.[/quote]

I am not saying that racism does not play a roll in all this, but rather, without it its just another guy getting gunned down.

I am glad this case has gotten attention for a variety of reasons.

I just was thinking about how boys/young men/men being killed is not really news. Thinking about this in how masculinity is framed. I am wrapped up on my class right now, discussing gender.[/quote]
I want to know what led to the fight the black man lost.

1071

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just one more point, because Tdub literally walked right into it. The following is a prime example of what I am speaking of:

First, this statement isn’t even true and I explained that above…so why do people who claim to not even listen to the music…blanket the ENTIRE FIELD OF MUSIC along with those who listen to it or dress similarly with this negative stereotype?

The belief is truly that every single rapper is acting like a criminal? Really?

OutKast raps mostly about criminal activity? Really? Shake it like a Polaroid Picture is going to kill your kids?

LOL. But culturalism is the new ‘racism’.[/quote]
Don’t play dumb. The mainstream rap culture largely embraces criminality as a badge of honor from Tupac to Eminem. Lil’ Wayne to 50 Cent. Snoop and Dre to TI. Chamillionaire and DMX and on and on and on.

And don’t even start “underground” apologetics. 3-6 Mafia, UGK, Geto Boys…

Using exceptions doesn’t build a good case at all. Turn on the fucking radio and note who’s getting play time.

Baggy pants are indeed used to conceal shit even if they did become a super gay fashion statement. Walk like a duck, talk like a duck and people will think you are a duck.[/quote]

Exceptions to “the rule”?

You aren’t even a challenge.

1072

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

Weird how every observation I’ve made on the case has been verified thus far. That’s the difference between a manipulator of people and an observer of people. Shot any blanks at anyone lately?[/quote]
And if you know this much, you’re clearly a murder. It’s the only explanation.[/quote]

Two separate responses to the same post. I feel special. Why don’t you go back and respond to all the other posts I’ve made where I was right? Or are you content to sit on the sidelines and wait for additional details that won’t change a thing?

If I’m a “murder” why is the irresponsible tool who boasted about firing blank rounds at a “friend” bleating about gun laws?

1073

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

He’s illustrating a common sense scenario. A hunch.
Sometimes you’re thick as a rock HG.
[/quote]

He just thinks that using basic psychology in business and one night stands makes him top tier in human behaviour. If Trayvon tried to drag Zimmerman out of his car after suspicious pants -exploring behaviour, Zimmerman would have pulled his gun, shot Tray in self defense and justified it with Tray trying to drag him from the vehicle. The 911 call and Tray’s cell phone message simply don’t support that. What additional proof are we waiting on that will explain this? A second gun? Didn’t happen.[/quote]
Actually I think Salem witch hunts and “street justice” are bullshit. Plain and simple. I have more faith in the police than your clairevoyence, Father Freud.[/quote]

Clairvoyance? LOL. More like common sense. Please tell me what game-changing revelation you’ve been lurking this thread in anticipation of?

1074

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just one more point, because Tdub literally walked right into it. The following is a prime example of what I am speaking of:

First, this statement isn’t even true and I explained that above…so why do people who claim to not even listen to the music…blanket the ENTIRE FIELD OF MUSIC along with those who listen to it or dress similarly with this negative stereotype?

The belief is truly that every single rapper is acting like a criminal? Really?

OutKast raps mostly about criminal activity? Really? Shake it like a Polaroid Picture is going to kill your kids?

LOL. But culturalism is the new ‘racism’.[/quote]
Don’t play dumb. The mainstream rap culture largely embraces criminality as a badge of honor from Tupac to Eminem. Lil’ Wayne to 50 Cent. Snoop and Dre to TI. Chamillionaire and DMX and on and on and on.

And don’t even start “underground” apologetics. 3-6 Mafia, UGK, Geto Boys…

Using exceptions doesn’t build a good case at all. Turn on the fucking radio and note who’s getting play time.

Baggy pants are indeed used to conceal shit even if they did become a super gay fashion statement. Walk like a duck, talk like a duck and people will think you are a duck.[/quote]

Exceptions to “the rule”?

You aren’t even a challenge. [/quote]
Oh cool, like one “artist” in five, good odds.

1075

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

Weird how every observation I’ve made on the case has been verified thus far. That’s the difference between a manipulator of people and an observer of people. Shot any blanks at anyone lately?[/quote]
And if you know this much, you’re clearly a murder. It’s the only explanation.[/quote]

Two separate responses to the same post. I feel special. Why don’t you go back and respond to all the other posts I’ve made where I was right? Or are you content to sit on the sidelines and wait for additional details that won’t change a thing?[/quote]

You mean the posts where you make assumptions based on limited media knowledge that don’t prove a thing in the grand scheme?

The same sentiment discussed ad nauseam before you showed up?

1076

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Oh that’s right, likely scenarios only make sense if they fit your personal view. [/quote]

What is your “likely scenario” then?

1077

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Oh that’s right, likely scenarios only make sense if they fit your personal view. [/quote]

What is your “likely scenario” then?[/quote]
Read the thread and get back to me.

1078

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

I actually have my own theory that everyone is equally intelligent.[/quote]

It’s called egalitarianism. When egalitarianism is applied to racial intelligence levels, it fails. Each race has a different average brain size and difference average ratio between grey and white matter. For all the races to end up with equal intelligence levels is just about as close to a statistical impossibility as you can get and every valid study ever done on this topic has shown this is simply not the case. It would be nice if all the races had equal intelligence levels, but that’s just matter of factly less likely than all the races ending up with equal aggregate athletic proficiency. [/quote]

If you don’t have a valid measurement of IQ in the first place, you can’t have a valid study of anything related to IQ.

I will look more into Egalitarianism.[/quote]

IQ tests are a valid measure of IQ, that’s tautologically true. What exactly IQ measures, however, is up for debate as there is no universally agreed upon definition of intelligence. However, I’ll remind you that IQ tests correlate with income to the extent that controlling for IQ will close the black/white income gap.

1079

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Oh that’s right, likely scenarios only make sense if they fit your personal view. [/quote]

What is your “likely scenario” then?[/quote]
Read the thread and get back to me.[/quote]

Done. All I see are the facts panning out in my favor. Unless your likely scenario is “cops planting evidence to save their own bacon”, this ain’t going to fit your “personal view”.

1080

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Oh that’s right, likely scenarios only make sense if they fit your personal view. [/quote]

What is your “likely scenario” then?[/quote]
Read the thread and get back to me.[/quote]

Done. All I see are the facts panning out in my favor. Unless your likely scenario is “cops planting evidence to save their own bacon”, this ain’t going to fit your “personal view”.[/quote]
All you see are facts with a loose description of context twisted to meet your world view.

1081

Nothing short of Zimmerman getting convicted will convince these idiots on the forum. HELL even then they will give an excuse as to why Zimmerman is innocent.

Its a fucken joke.

1082

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]TDub301 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sifu wrote:
I’m guessing that you have never seen this behavior where you live, but if you have ever been to Miami it is something you see. It is part of the Miami “I’m so hood” dress code and is related to the pants down around your ass, fashion statement. To do it properly you don’t just hold onto your waistband or put your hand at your waist. They grab up their pants in such a way that it looks like they are carrying something and are using their pants to conceal it. Then there is the slouch and walk that goes with it that makes it look like there is something in their pants making it difficult to walk normal. The look is meant to give the impression that they are carrying a gun because that is what it looks like. Or as the man says at 3:38 of this I’m so hood video “pants hanging off me now cuz my pistol heavy, I’m so hood” [/quote]

The thing is, we have that in Houston as well and I don’t see “thug with potential gun” when I see it because the style is too widespread and that is NOT what most of the people with their pants sagging are doing.

That means if you attach a blatantly criminal act directly to a style, you would have to be blind to not see the mistakes that could lead to.

This kid had a bunch of store bought goods…IN THE RAIN…he was trying to keep dry. That would make anyone’s pants sag because Arizona Iced tea is pretty heavy.

That means if you see “black man with pants sagging” and immediately think “thug with gun”, you are making the same mistakes as any racist would whether you call yourself one or not. Your limited exposure to that style or the people who use it has led you to purely negative conclusions based on it that you can’t see past.

I see the same guy and none of the same thoughts enter my mind because I grew up around that culture and I’m not afraid of every black person I see who isn’t dressed like Bryant Gumble.[/quote]

So after saying all this, would you agree that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder?

You’ve mentioned that rappers have been making videos with saggy pants for decades, but you fail to realize that a lot of white people from the generation Zimmerman is a part of may have never seen a rap video in their lives.

So if there’s no exposure to this sort of thing, why is it so far-fetched for them to think it looks suspicious? Especially if all the kids in their neighborhood don’t look like that when they’re walking down the street? (this is an assumption, none of us knows how the rest of the kids there walk around their neighborhood, I’m just trying to make a point here and it is fairly likely that any given neighborhood, especially if it is a gated neighborhood in a white area, would not contain kids who wear clothes like this).[/quote]

I know this is meant for X but just so this does not get out of control.

Zimmerman is 28 younger than the every member of Jodeci hahaha.

The neighborhood was mixed.

And we have no idea how this kid clothes fit. All we know is hoodie. People guess he had hanging pants because Zimmerman said he touched his waist. As far as we know the kid just checked his zipper.

This story has enough bad details without any of us adding to it[/quote]

He could’ve just been checking his zipper. If Zimmerman was telling the truth, he said that he was walking with his hand in his waistband. This would give me the impression that he probably was holding his pants up because the tea was weighing them down, like X said earlier.

But until you know why, you can only guess. Noone has X-ray vision to see why his hand is in his waistband, all you can do is guess. It’s not out of the question to see someone walking slowly, at night, in the rain, with his hand in his pants, looking around at every house as suspicious. Yes, there’s a legitimate explanation for all of it, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be taken as suspicious looking by anyone. Especially someone who is looking for trouble and off the rocker like Zimmerman.[/quote]

Zimmerman’s defense hinges on his belief that Tray was armed; no weapon was found on the body, and Zimmerman ended up in a fight with Tray. If Tray was armed with intent to use the weapon, there would have been clear evidence of this. No physical altercation would have ensued: two armed men = gunfight and there was no evidence to support this. If Tray had a gun, he would have shot Zimmerman in his car. Nothing supports the view that Tray was the aggressor. An approach would have allowed Zim to draw his weapon and the facts don’t support this.

Zimmerman willingly stepped out to confront the kid with a holstered weapon.[/quote]

You sure are an expert on shooting people.[/quote]

Weird how every observation I’ve made on the case has been verified thus far. That’s the difference between a manipulator of people and an observer of people. Shot any blanks at anyone lately?[/quote]
no but I would’ve shot trayvon given what we know.[/quote]

You’re obviously grasping to an argument that you know you lost 30+ pages ago. This comment was despicable and you should be ashamed of yourself.