I can imagine he wanted or choose to act tough (âI said get those hands up!â) but then killed the kid by accident and now cannot admit it for fear of getting 25 to life.
Accidents do happen in a world that is full of handy killing devices and itâs flag-waving lobbys.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Kayrob wrote:
Everything I have read about this incident seems to be asking whey the guy has not been arrested yet. Is it possible that without witnesses the cops want to make sure they have all their ducks in a row, ie balistics tests to see how far away the guy was when he shot him, things like that. For all we know an arrest may be imminent, but they want to make sure the evidence is good.[/quote]
I bet he would have been arrested if he were black and the kid shot were white.[/quote]
This is unfortunately all too true. For some reason when itâs a black kid that gets shot itâs a typical reaction to question âWell what did the kid do to get himself shot?â
None of you can show an ounce of proof for racism.
When I was a teenager I lived in a very nice community. (Colorado with pro football players as neighbors).
Anyway. I am pale. But I was a very unruly, pissed off, know-it-all teenager. I would climb out the window and smoke cigarettes (and/or other stuff) on the roof of our house until neighbors called my parents telling them what I was doing.
Anyway, since I couldnât sit on the roof smoking anymore, I would take walks to smoke instead. (Sneaky teenager that I was ).
One night I was harassed by a neighborhood rent-a-cop. I was seriously pisssed. He told me that there were complaints (although this night I happened to be only two doors away from my house, and not smoking⊠just taking a walk. Really, how much time did anyone have to complain. Yes I was a poorly dressed pissed off teen in a nice neighborhood.)
Mr. Rent-A-Cop was a fucking douche. I told the asshole that I lived just down the street. Fucker didnât believe me.
Asshole harassed me enough to go home. After I went inside my house, and he got these big assed lights to shine at the door and front porch. He even knocked on the door (I guess he thought I broke in?). I answered with both of my parents standing behind me. They were as pissed as I was.
Fucker looked like he was about to shit something huge.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
None of you can show an ounce of proof for racism.[/quote]
Even so, that does not mean it doesnât exist.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
None of you can show an ounce of proof for racism.[/quote]
And calling the cops on a black kid for walking through your neighborhood smacks of prejudice if not racism. The fact that the boy ended up dead after that is all the more condemning.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I just want to say that nobody was there.
Who knows what happened.
Maybe the guy was racist and questioned the kid for no good reason and the kid gave empty threats, creating the perception of a threat the neighborhood watch took seriously.
And before âeveryone said he was a good kidâ, my mom and her neighborhood friends would say that too.
And gated communities arenât shit. They are just neighborhoods with gates.[/quote]
Not 100% true. It must be a true possibility of harm before lethal force can be used. Just yelling threats is not enough. But this is something the cops would or should already checked on. So this goes back to the question what is the police report say. Because for this guy to be walking around free something more must have happenedâŠor the cops just plain suck
Well a heated conversation even by a CCW holding Neighborhood Watch God and a Kid with skittles does not explain the Shooting.
Even in The Free State of Florida you need to explain how you felt your life was on the line to justify shooting a guy on THE STREET.
[/quote]
In Texas, all you need to use deadly force is the threat of bodily harm, even if only verbal.
The only other witness is dead of course but the watchman very well couldâve been within the law.[/quote]
[/quote]
Nope. If you receive a direct threat, you may use deadly force within the confines of the law.
Call the HPD non emergency line and ask your self defense rights if an aggressor threatens your life.
If you do it, ask objectively, donât slant the answer with conjectured bullshit.[/quote]
Jesus Christ, stop acting like ANYWHERE in the continental US has definitions of âself defenseâ and âappropriate forceâ as loose as the ones in Texas. In the state of Texas, you can break into your neighbors house when they arenât home in order to shoot a burglar who is in the process of robbing said house. This isnât Texas, where even toddlers are encouraged to arm themselves for fucks sake, itâs Florida, a sort of southern state populated almost entirely by northern transplants.
Very interesting that the shooter wasnât even taken in. Not very often you get to shoot and kill someone in apparent cold blood and just go home*. This guy may have gotten very lucky since there have been cases where 911 calls prior to a killing have been used to assert that premeditation existed.
*outside of the state of Texas
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I just want to say that nobody was there.
Who knows what happened.
Maybe the guy was racist and questioned the kid for no good reason and the kid gave empty threats, creating the perception of a threat the neighborhood watch took seriously.
And before âeveryone said he was a good kidâ, my mom and her neighborhood friends would say that too.
And gated communities arenât shit. They are just neighborhoods with gates.[/quote]
Not 100% true. It must be a true possibility of harm before lethal force can be used. Just yelling threats is not enough. But this is something the cops would or should already checked on. So this goes back to the question what is the police report say. Because for this guy to be walking around free something more must have happenedâŠor the cops just plain suck
Well a heated conversation even by a CCW holding Neighborhood Watch God and a Kid with skittles does not explain the Shooting
Even in The Free State of Florida you need to explain how you felt your life was on the line to justify shooting a guy on THE STREET.
[/quote]
In Texas, all you need to use deadly force is the threat of bodily harm, even if only verbal.
The only other witness is dead of course but the watchman very well couldâve been within the law.[/quote]
[/quote]
Nope. If you receive a direct threat, you may use deadly force within the confines of the law.
Call the HPD non emergency line and ask your self defense rights if an aggressor threatens your life.
If you do it, ask objectively, donât slant the answer with conjectured bullshit.[/quote]
That is the point.
It is up to the Police to prove otherwise but you still need more than a kid saying âIâll kill youâ. Really. Even your last statement you added the word âAggressorâ.
This happened on the street while the kid was walking. The kid was approached by the guy as he was coming from the store returning home.
Words alone does not qualify for this use of force. At least not from what we know so far.
Now the civilian could have told the police that the kid became violent and started moving towards him in an aggressive manner while saying âIâll kill youâ that shows both an aggressive position and a intent.
Even TX has some rules hell if not guys would be shooting people from a block away saying the guy yelled âIâll get you suck aâ
Oh and was this a guy in uniform? Or just a civilian watch captain in regular clothes?
[quote]Schwarzfahrers wrote:
I can imagine he wanted or choose to act tough (âI said get those hands up!â) but then killed the kid by accident and now cannot admit it for fear of getting 25 to life.
Accidents do happen in a world that is full of handy killing devices and itâs flag-waving lobbys.
[/quote]
Yeah. This sounds about right. If the guy was in uniform and the kid chose not to comply with his commands I can see it going down just as above.
But this does need to go to court. I would still like to see the report on what was said
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
None of you can show an ounce of proof for racism.[/quote]
Hey letâs just through away the deep racial history of the US and the fact that blacks are still discriminated against.
About 11-years ago or so, the man who essentially has taken over T-Nation, Chris Shugart, wrote an article called, âBe the Hammerâ. I assume this is why his thread was called âShugartâs Hammerâ, or whatever.
In this editorial article, which if Iâm not mistaken came on the heels of 9-11, Shugart, from Texas, extolled the virtues of initiating violence first rather than waiting to see if the person, or country, that you are afraid of has violent tendencies. Included was his account of gun-toting Texans, (including a pastor), and how you wouldnât want to fuck with them.
The whole thing was a veiled reference for why we should attack any odd country in the Middle East that Bush and Cheney decided were a threat to the US, and ask questions later. Anyone remember how that turned out?
This story called to mind that article, and that simple, regressive mindset: that somehow itâs better to aggressively respond to perceived threats with basic self-protective instinct; that it is the right, courageous thing to do.
Except when itâs not the right thing to do at all.
[quote]BeefEater wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
None of you can show an ounce of proof for racism.[/quote]
And calling the cops on a black kid for walking through your neighborhood smacks of prejudice if not racism. The fact that the boy ended up dead after that is all the more condemning.[/quote]
And what were the details of the conversation? Why did the man stop the boy and call the police, then shoot?
Your baseless assumption isnât an answer, merely a musing built on your own prejudice.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I just want to say that nobody was there.
Who knows what happened.
Maybe the guy was racist and questioned the kid for no good reason and the kid gave empty threats, creating the perception of a threat the neighborhood watch took seriously.
And before âeveryone said he was a good kidâ, my mom and her neighborhood friends would say that too.
And gated communities arenât shit. They are just neighborhoods with gates.[/quote]
Not 100% true. It must be a true possibility of harm before lethal force can be used. Just yelling threats is not enough. But this is something the cops would or should already checked on. So this goes back to the question what is the police report say. Because for this guy to be walking around free something more must have happenedâŠor the cops just plain suck
Well a heated conversation even by a CCW holding Neighborhood Watch God and a Kid with skittles does not explain the Shooting.
Even in The Free State of Florida you need to explain how you felt your life was on the line to justify shooting a guy on THE STREET.
[/quote]
In Texas, all you need to use deadly force is the threat of bodily harm, even if only verbal.
The only other witness is dead of course but the watchman very well couldâve been within the law.[/quote]
[/quote]
Nope. If you receive a direct threat, you may use deadly force within the confines of the law.
Call the HPD non emergency line and ask your self defense rights if an aggressor threatens your life.
If you do it, ask objectively, donât slant the answer with conjectured bullshit.[/quote]
Jesus Christ, stop acting like ANYWHERE in the continental US has definitions of âself defenseâ and âappropriate forceâ as loose as the ones in Texas. In the state of Texas, you can break into your neighbors house when they arenât home in order to shoot a burglar who is in the process of robbing said house. This isnât Texas, where even toddlers are encouraged to arm themselves for fucks sake, itâs Florida, a sort of southern state populated almost entirely by northern transplants.
Very interesting that the shooter wasnât even taken in. Not very often you get to shoot and kill someone in apparent cold blood and just go home*. This guy may have gotten very lucky since there have been cases where 911 calls prior to a killing have been used to assert that premeditation existed.
*outside of the state of Texas[/quote]I donât care where Florida law falls ultimately, if the boy did threaten the man, I support his decision to shoot in this arm chair jury conversation of conjectured opinions and projected insecurities.
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]BDSLift wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I just want to say that nobody was there.
Who knows what happened.
Maybe the guy was racist and questioned the kid for no good reason and the kid gave empty threats, creating the perception of a threat the neighborhood watch took seriously.
And before âeveryone said he was a good kidâ, my mom and her neighborhood friends would say that too.
And gated communities arenât shit. They are just neighborhoods with gates.[/quote]
Not 100% true. It must be a true possibility of harm before lethal force can be used. Just yelling threats is not enough. But this is something the cops would or should already checked on. So this goes back to the question what is the police report say. Because for this guy to be walking around free something more must have happenedâŠor the cops just plain suck
Well a heated conversation even by a CCW holding Neighborhood Watch God and a Kid with skittles does not explain the Shooting
Even in The Free State of Florida you need to explain how you felt your life was on the line to justify shooting a guy on THE STREET.
[/quote]
In Texas, all you need to use deadly force is the threat of bodily harm, even if only verbal.
The only other witness is dead of course but the watchman very well couldâve been within the law.[/quote]
[/quote]
Nope. If you receive a direct threat, you may use deadly force within the confines of the law.
Call the HPD non emergency line and ask your self defense rights if an aggressor threatens your life.
If you do it, ask objectively, donât slant the answer with conjectured bullshit.[/quote]
That is the point.
It is up to the Police to prove otherwise but you still need more than a kid saying âIâll kill youâ. Really. Even your last statement you added the word âAggressorâ.
This happened on the street while the kid was walking. The kid was approached by the guy as he was coming from the store returning home.
Words alone does not qualify for this use of force. At least not from what we know so far.
Now the civilian could have told the police that the kid became violent and started moving towards him in an aggressive manner while saying âIâll kill youâ that shows both an aggressive position and a intent.
Even TX has some rules hell if not guys would be shooting people from a block away saying the guy yelled âIâll get you suck aâ
Oh and was this a guy in uniform? Or just a civilian watch captain in regular clothes?
[/quote]
The dudes were engaged in some form of altercation, enough so that the watch called the police (I reject the notion they were called simply bc the kid was black for the more sensible notion that he did, in fact, draw attention to suspicion) and felt the need to protect himself.
If the kid grew belligerent and made a verbal threat, the man had a right to self defense in the likely confrontational scenario that is the context of this thread.
The idea being that when in a threatened situation where you are unsure of whether or not your safety actually is on the line, the benefit of the doubt is on your side as you were placed in the unfortunate position of judging the level of your safety at the hands of another.
Hesitate even briefly and you just might be dead and therefore have the right to react in defense.
But yes, two feuding people yelling âima get youâ would have a hard time overcoming premeditation one way or another; this story is not that scenario.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
None of you can show an ounce of proof for racism.[/quote]
Hey letâs just through away the deep racial history of the US and the fact that blacks are still discriminated against.
[/quote]
Great! You can acknowledge this guy and Robert E Lee are not one and the same, very good sir, very good.
The article I read last night listed the shooter as a âself-appointed neighborhood watch captainâ.
The problem with gates communities and neighborhood homeowners associations is they give rights to individuals that would not be given to elected politicians or police. There was a story a few years back of a resident getting evicted for not paying their homeowner associations dues.
I think it is one of these rights that the âshooterâ gave himself is why he has not already been arrested.
I do not know how he could defend his reaction (shooting) when following the kid to his house to see that he lived there was the most the watch captian should have done. Hell, he already had called the cops.
And before someone goes off about my understanding of homeowners associations I have studied these and are something frequently discussed in my profession.
[quote]Capricious wrote:
About 11-years ago or so, the man who essentially has taken over T-Nation, Chris Shugart, wrote an article called, âBe the Hammerâ. I assume this is why his thread was called âShugartâs Hammerâ, or whatever.
In this editorial article, which if Iâm not mistaken came on the heels of 9-11, Shugart, from Texas, extolled the virtues of initiating violence first rather than waiting to see if the person, or country, that you are afraid of has violent tendencies. Included was his account of gun-toting Texans, (including a pastor), and how you wouldnât want to fuck with them.
The whole thing was a veiled reference for why we should attack any odd country in the Middle East that Bush and Cheney decided were a threat to the US, and ask questions later. Anyone remember how that turned out?
This story called to mind that article, and that simple, regressive mindset: that somehow itâs better to aggressively respond to perceived threats with basic self-protective instinct; that it is the right, courageous thing to do.
Except when itâs not the right thing to do at all.[/quote]
Yeah, we wrecked shop, dismantled the taliban, broke up violent âanti-westernâ support groups, eliminated a genocidal fascist and ushered the middle east in to the beginning stages of modern civilization although completing that work takes time.
It turned out pretty fucking awesome.
And, I bet youâre exaggerating. I doubt he alluded to indiscriminately killing on a whim, donât be intentionally stupid.
Wow, where I live the neighbourhood watch gets together for bbqâs a few times a year, gets to know one another, cleans up graffiti, encourages everybody to get good security lighting etc, reports suspicious activity to police and occasionally petitions the city for some extra speed bumps or some such. They feel more involved in their community and get a break on their home insurance.
They decidedly do not shoot anybody.
Whatever happened that night, itâs a brutally sad story.
Welcome to Obamaâs AmericaâŠ4 more years!