Black Teen Shot by Neighborhood Watch

Off Topic
301

“What gave him the right to think he was judge, jury and executioner?” asks Martin’s uncle, Ronald Fulton.

The answer to his question may be simple: the state of Florida, which in 2005 enacted one of the nation’s strongest so-called “stand your ground” self-defense laws. According to the statute, a person in Florida is justified in using deadly force against another if he or she “reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”

Was Trayvon Martin, who was unarmed, posing a threat to Zimmerman’s life? We may never know for sure, but in Florida - and a growing number of states - what matters isn’t whether or not Martin was actually a threat, only that Zimmerman “reasonably” believed he was."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57398005-504083/the-trayvon-martin-case-exposes-the-realities-of-a-new-generation-of-self-defense-laws/

The evidence has reportedly been handed over to the State Attorney’s Office.

302

Witness claims the police blew her off:

http://www.wdbo.com/news/news/local/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLTCd/

303

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Oh god, not the young douchebags. Right from the get go they are offering conjecture and opinion with no evidence. I watched a minute and realized I have much better things to do on the internet like rub one out. [/quote]

This was the clip that made me shake my head at the irrational way that nearly all white people tried to distance themselves from this crime by demonizing the “evil racist” at the expense of all critical thought.

Hell, you can see quite a bit of that in this thread, in fact.[/quote]

I feel like this thread contained much more people ACCUSING him of being an “evil racist” at the expense of all critical thought moreso than white people distancing themselves from him.

304

Trayvon Martin: Woman gave ‘inconsistent’ statement on TV, Sanford PD says

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/os-trayvon-martin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Derp.

305

I didn’t even make it 1 minute into that video before I turned it off and began wondering why that woman still has a job. She claims that Zimmerman “made himself captain of the neighborhood watch.”

Now, I don’t know what the rules for this specific community are, but in my neighborhood (which is also a gated community) we vote for the captain of our neighborhood watch, and I highly doubt this guy was just allowed to appoint himself captain. There was no source provided by the TheYoungTurks so I assume they made it up.

Also, she says that he was killed “because he was black” Her reasoning for this is because he was 11 years younger than the shooter, like that have been noticeable at night and it wouldn’t matter anyway. Last time I checked, young people can threaten and kill older people. Also, she mentions he was 140 lbs and unarmed. The shooter had no way of knowing the kid was unarmed.

The could could have been running his mouth and said he had a gun and would shoot him or any number of other things. The fact is that WE DON"T KNOW. Condemning this man as a racist asshole murderer based on what boils down to conjecture goes against the principles our legal system is based on, which includes “innocent until proven guilty.”

The captain did do some things that raise questions, such as approaching the kid in the first place, but that is not proof of murder or racism, just that the man is an idiot with bad judgement.

306

[quote]anonym wrote:
Witness claims the police blew her off:

http://www.wdbo.com/news/news/local/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLTCd/[/quote]

“…Legal analyst Bill Sheaffer reviewed the statute and said that if Zimmerman was told by 911 to not confront Martin and did anyway, the statute is not on his side.”

307

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
I didn’t even make it 1 minute into that video before I turned it off and began wondering why that woman still has a job. She claims that Zimmerman “made himself captain of the neighborhood watch.”

Now, I don’t know what the rules for this specific community are, but in my neighborhood (which is also a gated community) we vote for the captain of our neighborhood watch, and I highly doubt this guy was just allowed to appoint himself captain. There was no source provided by the TheYoungTurks so I assume they made it up.

Also, she says that he was killed “because he was black” Her reasoning for this is because he was 11 years younger than the shooter, like that have been noticeable at night and it wouldn’t matter anyway. Last time I checked, young people can threaten and kill older people. Also, she mentions he was 140 lbs and unarmed. The shooter had no way of knowing the kid was unarmed.

The could could have been running his mouth and said he had a gun and would shoot him or any number of other things. The fact is that WE DON"T KNOW. Condemning this man as a racist asshole murderer based on what boils down to conjecture goes against the principles our legal system is based on, which includes “innocent until proven guilty.”

The captain did do some things that raise questions, such as approaching the kid in the first place, but that is not proof of murder or racism, just that the man is an idiot with bad judgement.[/quote]

Ok. So he is an Idiot with Bad Judgement that caused a Kid to die.

308

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
I didn’t even make it 1 minute into that video before I turned it off and began wondering why that woman still has a job. She claims that Zimmerman “made himself captain of the neighborhood watch.”

Now, I don’t know what the rules for this specific community are, but in my neighborhood (which is also a gated community) we vote for the captain of our neighborhood watch, and I highly doubt this guy was just allowed to appoint himself captain. There was no source provided by the TheYoungTurks so I assume they made it up.

Also, she says that he was killed “because he was black” Her reasoning for this is because he was 11 years younger than the shooter, like that have been noticeable at night and it wouldn’t matter anyway. Last time I checked, young people can threaten and kill older people. Also, she mentions he was 140 lbs and unarmed. The shooter had no way of knowing the kid was unarmed.

The could could have been running his mouth and said he had a gun and would shoot him or any number of other things. The fact is that WE DON"T KNOW. Condemning this man as a racist asshole murderer based on what boils down to conjecture goes against the principles our legal system is based on, which includes “innocent until proven guilty.”

The captain did do some things that raise questions, such as approaching the kid in the first place, but that is not proof of murder or racism, just that the man is an idiot with bad judgement.[/quote]

Ok. So he is an Idiot with Bad Judgement that caused a Kid to die.
[/quote]

Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.

309

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
I didn’t even make it 1 minute into that video before I turned it off and began wondering why that woman still has a job. She claims that Zimmerman “made himself captain of the neighborhood watch.”

Now, I don’t know what the rules for this specific community are, but in my neighborhood (which is also a gated community) we vote for the captain of our neighborhood watch, and I highly doubt this guy was just allowed to appoint himself captain. There was no source provided by the TheYoungTurks so I assume they made it up.

Also, she says that he was killed “because he was black” Her reasoning for this is because he was 11 years younger than the shooter, like that have been noticeable at night and it wouldn’t matter anyway. Last time I checked, young people can threaten and kill older people. Also, she mentions he was 140 lbs and unarmed. The shooter had no way of knowing the kid was unarmed.

The could could have been running his mouth and said he had a gun and would shoot him or any number of other things. The fact is that WE DON"T KNOW. Condemning this man as a racist asshole murderer based on what boils down to conjecture goes against the principles our legal system is based on, which includes “innocent until proven guilty.”

The captain did do some things that raise questions, such as approaching the kid in the first place, but that is not proof of murder or racism, just that the man is an idiot with bad judgement.[/quote]

Ok. So he is an Idiot with Bad Judgement that caused a Kid to die.
[/quote]

Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.
[/quote]

Kid still dead.

310

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.

311

[quote]anonym wrote:
“What gave him the right to think he was judge, jury and executioner?” asks Martin’s uncle, Ronald Fulton.

The answer to his question may be simple: the state of Florida, which in 2005 enacted one of the nation’s strongest so-called “stand your ground” self-defense laws. According to the statute, a person in Florida is justified in using deadly force against another if he or she “reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”

Was Trayvon Martin, who was unarmed, posing a threat to Zimmerman’s life? We may never know for sure, but in Florida - and a growing number of states - what matters isn’t whether or not Martin was actually a threat, only that Zimmerman “reasonably” believed he was."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57398005-504083/the-trayvon-martin-case-exposes-the-realities-of-a-new-generation-of-self-defense-laws/

The evidence has reportedly been handed over to the State Attorney’s Office.[/quote]
Boom!

312

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.[/quote]

Yes, Because killing a kid because you are a dumbass is not as bad as being a racist.

313

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.[/quote]

Yes, Because killing a kid because you are a dumbass is not as bad as being a racist.[/quote]
He’s not a dumb ass if he was threatened, regardless of what wasn’t found after the fact.

314

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.[/quote]

Yes, Because killing a kid because you are a dumbass is not as bad as being a racist.[/quote]

Look, dude, I take a second here and there to think about what I say before I hit submit. If you want to have a discussion, I’d appreciate the same courtesy from you.

NO ONE, or at least, VERY FEW PEOPLE, are excusing this Zimmerman’s actions. No one is saying, “well, it wasn’t a hate crime, so is it really THAT big of a deal?” The LAST SENTENCE in the docs post says as much.

What we HAVE been saying, from early on in this thread, is that we don’t have all the facts of this case to pass judgment on what REALLY happened… and that any accusations of him being a cutthroat racist are more ploys from the media for ratings and appeals from the family to garner sympathy. The “Skittles vs guns” sound bite is a case in point.

Stringing him up as a racist before we really know what went down is doing nothing more than killing any chance this guy has at a fair trial. You might not FEEL that he deserves one, but again – until all the facts are aired, you don’t KNOW.

No one is attempting to trivialize the loss the Martin’s must feel now, and no one is saying it could never have been an attack motivated by race… what we ARE saying, is that until we know all the facts of the case, we can’t be sure either way.

315

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.[/quote]

Yes, Because killing a kid because you are a dumbass is not as bad as being a racist.[/quote]
He’s not a dumb ass if he was threatened, regardless of what wasn’t found after the fact.[/quote]

Read all the post in this box. It was a response to the above post.

If I’m not mistaken.

The guy did admit to killing a kid so that is not a question.
The guy did say he thought the kid was up to something and this is why he put himself near the kid.
(also not a question)

The Kid is DEAD from the guys bullet.

As HG has said a number of times in this thread a person is innocent until proven guilty in this country.

The kid also has that right (not a question)

The kid is dead. I don’t care if the guy was a Nazi or a Rambo.

316

Where have you been this whole thread Dr. Matt? We were all in a clusterfuck that you just explained perfectly and could’ve used this several pages ago. (or in other words, everything you just said has already been stated, just not quite as well imo).

317

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.[/quote]

Yes, Because killing a kid because you are a dumbass is not as bad as being a racist.[/quote]

Look, dude, I take a second here and there to think about what I say before I hit submit. If you want to have a discussion, I’d appreciate the same courtesy from you.

NO ONE, or at least, VERY FEW PEOPLE, are excusing this Zimmerman’s actions. No one is saying, “well, it wasn’t a hate crime, so is it really THAT big of a deal?” The LAST SENTENCE in the docs post says as much.

What we HAVE been saying, from early on in this thread, is that we don’t have all the facts of this case to pass judgment on what REALLY happened… and that any accusations of him being a cutthroat racist are more ploys from the media for ratings and appeals from the family to garner sympathy. The “Skittles vs guns” sound bite is a case in point.

Stringing him up as a racist before we really know what went down is doing nothing more than killing any chance this guy has at a fair trial. You might not FEEL that he deserves one, but again – until all the facts are aired, you don’t KNOW.

No one is attempting to trivialize the loss the Martin’s must feel now, and no one is saying it could never have been an attack motivated by race… what we ARE saying, is that until we know all the facts of the case, we can’t be sure either way.[/quote]

You can only speak for yourself. So “DUDE” you should stop with the “NO ONES”. If you go thru this thread you will see things are flying all over the place.

318

[quote]four60 wrote:
You can only speak for yourself. So “DUDE” you should stop with the “NO ONES”. If you go thru this thread you will see things are flying all over the place.[/quote]

Post an actual quote of either:

  1. someone saying that a murdered adolescent isn’t a big deal
  2. attempting to trivialize the Martin’s loss

Then, note that in response to “things flying all over the place” I followed the “no one” by saying “or at least, VERY FEW PEOPLE” to cover myself in the event I missed something.

Then, stop putting words in our mouths and engage as intelligently as I know you are capable of.

319

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
You can only speak for yourself. So “DUDE” you should stop with the “NO ONES”. If you go thru this thread you will see things are flying all over the place.[/quote]

Post an actual quote of either:

  1. someone saying that a murdered adolescent isn’t a big deal
  2. attempting to trivialize the Martin’s loss

Then, note that in response to “things flying all over the place” I followed the “no one” by saying “or at least, VERY FEW PEOPLE” to cover myself in the event I missed something.

Then, stop putting words in our mouths and engage as intelligently as I know you are capable of.[/quote]

I wont do either. Its in the thread go look for it.

As for this putting words in your mouth. My STATEMENT was just that. If you have an issue with that…tough.

I’m making statements like you are. I have not called anyone a liar or a racist or a protector of anyone or anybody so I’m not even sure why your panties seem to be so tight. But once again. Tough.

320

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Maybe. He may also be a racist murdering asshole who approached the kid in order to come up with a reason to shoot him. My point was that we don’t know and don’t have access to the information we need to actually know which it is and it is incredibly wrong to label him as anything without knowing more. Either way, it is sad that the kid died, whether he was murdered or not.[/quote]

Exactly. Well said.[/quote]

Yes, Because killing a kid because you are a dumbass is not as bad as being a racist.[/quote]

Look, dude, I take a second here and there to think about what I say before I hit submit. If you want to have a discussion, I’d appreciate the same courtesy from you.

NO ONE, or at least, VERY FEW PEOPLE, are excusing this Zimmerman’s actions. No one is saying, “well, it wasn’t a hate crime, so is it really THAT big of a deal?” The LAST SENTENCE in the docs post says as much.

What we HAVE been saying, from early on in this thread, is that we don’t have all the facts of this case to pass judgment on what REALLY happened… and that any accusations of him being a cutthroat racist are more ploys from the media for ratings and appeals from the family to garner sympathy. The “Skittles vs guns” sound bite is a case in point.

Stringing him up as a racist before we really know what went down is doing nothing more than killing any chance this guy has at a fair trial. You might not FEEL that he deserves one, but again – until all the facts are aired, you don’t KNOW.

No one is attempting to trivialize the loss the Martin’s must feel now, and no one is saying it could never have been an attack motivated by race… what we ARE saying, is that until we know all the facts of the case, we can’t be sure either way.[/quote]

You can only speak for yourself. So “DUDE” you should stop with the “NO ONES”. If you go thru this thread you will see things are flying all over the place.

[/quote]

anonym is the one trying to keep the thread on track. Then people, I mean ‘DUDES’ like you come in and just spit out anything that comes to their head.