[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]thirdruffian wrote:
If you look at the article, it says the Stand Your Ground law didn’t even apply, because dumbass Zimmerman was already on the ground and couldn’t retreat.[/quote]
? I thought that would work in Zimmermans defense?[/quote]
No, the “Stand Your Ground” law merely added you don’t have to run away, if you have the ability to do so.
Here, dumbass was on the ground, so he couldn’t run away.
It’s just plain-old “self-defense.”[/quote]
Nothing is really “plain” in this incident. There are “if these things hold true” it’s just plain-old self-defense. Even with Stand Your Ground law…wouldn’t there still be a need to determine the aggressor before establishing who is justified in their self-defense3??
With that…couldn’t this Stand Your Ground law have justified Martin in defending himself…and putting Zimmerman on the ground in the first place…??? Of course there is the confusing “speculation” that Martin followed Zimmerman back to the vehicle. But it’s just that…speculation. [/quote]
Well this is why it stings so much for the family. The Defense (Zimmerman) does not have to show much of anything because the burden of proof is on the Prosecution.[/quote]
Very true…nothing to refute Zimmerman’s claims. But(IMO) there is enough to still hold him responsible in being careless and negligent…if the prosecution goes that route. [/quote]
I think it is easy to criticize in hindsight.
It’s not that weird to think a neighborhood watch captain would roll up to a suspicious outsider to ask who he is visiting.
It’s not weird to think Trayvon veered off as he pulled up.
It’s not weird to think Trayvon avoiding a question appeared even more suspicious.
It’s not weird to think Zimmerman exited his car to identify himself and ask his question.
Or that Trayvon took off running and Zimmerman headed back to his car.
Or that Trayvon, shown to have authority issues in general, attacked and brought us to the situation at hand.[/quote]
Some truth…can’t deny that. HOWEVER it’s also not weird to think Trayvon had all the right for his actions listed without reasonable consequence…Why? see next—>
It’s not weird to think Zimmmerman had no authority to act in the capacity of a law enforcement AUTHORITY as a neighborhood watchman. He couldn’t announce his authority…because he had none other than to REPORT.
Can we do this without bias…because that was too easy…and you’re a smart guy. [/quote]
If you would read the “books” of threads you would see I’m only balancing what I see as bias. I’ve enjoyed debates with you before and so I don’t mind playing a little catch up but at least get a feel for the conversation.
And no, it wouldn’t be weird for Trayvon to ignore and run off, it would be his right to do so.
However, a neighborhood watchman would generally ask who an unaccompanied visitor was visiting. It wouldn’t be weird at all for Trayvon to take offense at “disrespect” from a perceived authority figure.
So far we have pages of a bullheaded, bloodlusting, wannabe superhero charicature and I’m saying the sensible, common presentation of a neighborhood watch is very viable indeed.[/quote]
Fair enough…but the bias you’re referring too is pretty much void in this thread(so far…lol). But like i noted…I mostly agree with your “it’s not weird to think” references. But the list just didn’t stop there…as I added.
The problem is with your presentation of a neighbor watchperson. You’re presenting an authority figure(as Zimmerman did in his own mind). Its one thing to truly present yourself as an eye of the neighborhood…state what your purpose is(from your vehicle) and move on. Whether that be concluding that the person is no threat and non-suspicious…OR conclude he is suspicious and REPORT details to the actual authorities.
It wouldn’t be weird for anyone with or without prior problems with authority to feel Zimmerman was crossing a line. Maybe Zimmerman was the person who felt the disrespect to his “perceived” authority???[/quote]
As this thread is a continuation of two maxed threads, I’m holding my position.
It’s all possible. I don’t suggest Zimmerman had any legit authority only that Martin may have perceived him as authority.
Zimmerman may have had an authority complex of is own. It wouldn’t be weird to assume.
He may have also been a concerned neighbor (however his title plays out) worried about the reported crimes in his neighborhood where the suspects matched Trayvon’s description, which is pretty rational to assume.
But yes, he could’ve been a madman on a rampage running down a kid who ignored him, gun drawn in his own neighborhood to teach a lesson, shot Trayvon in cold blood, beat himself up to create a story and bribed neighbors to create witness statements.