[quote]four60 wrote:
From the 911 tapes it seems we know what Zimmeran thought of Martin (he thought the kid was up to something, maybe on drugs and told the 911 operater “These assholes always get away”)
Its hard to say what Martin thought of Zimmerman other than he wondered why the guy was following him and felt the need to run from Zimmerman.
What they said to each other when they came face to face is anyone’s guess and can go 2000 dif ways if you have a good imagination.
[/quote]
What’s clear is that Zimmerman’s choice of action provoked Trayvon’s. This wasn’t some random assault on Zimmerman. He set the wheels in motion when he didn’t have to and when he was advised not to. [/quote]
That point has been beat to death here… but it’s as salient as any other worthwhile point, and I’m sure the prosecution will be hammering it as well.
Some truth…can’t deny that. HOWEVER it’s also not weird to think Trayvon had all the right for his actions listed with no without reasonable consequence…Why? see next—>
It’s not weird to think Zimmmerman had no authority to act in the capacity of a law enforcement AUTHORITY as a neighborhood watchman. He couldn’t announce his authority…because he had none other than to REPORT.
Can we do this without bias…because that was too easy…and you’re a smart guy. [/quote]
Neighborhood watchman = any other random citizen. Zimmerman may not have broken any laws but he behaved improperly and used very poor judgement. I already asked this question: does Zimmerman do something different if he doesn’t have a gun? Because if it’s a dumb choice to make without a gun, the presence of a gun doesn’t make it any less dumb, in fact, it probably makes it even dumber. His life post-shooting proves that.
I also read people posting that Zimmerman, or anyone for that matter, has the right to follow someone and/or ask them questions. I have yet to see anyone actually post something that proves we have that right. [/quote]
You will have to show the opposite to be true. If you don’t understand why you’re just going to have to live in your own bubble.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
It wouldn’t be weird at all for Trayvon to take offense at “disrespect” from a perceived authority figure.
[/quote]
It wouldn’t be weird for ANYONE to take offense. I have no issues with authority but I have issues with people not minding their own business so I would have told him to do just that. Ask a stranger in NYC a personal question and see what response you get. The idea that only a teen with “authority issues” (like what teen doesn’t?) is the only one who get offended is ridiculous.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Without having to read through the “books” of threads…has anyone even discussed Zimmerman violating numerous Neighborhood Watch guidelines?? Namely…carrying firearm in first place…which I know is a no-no…CCL or not. [/quote]
As discussed, his state license would override neighborhood association “no no’s”.[/quote]
Well since it was apparently discussed…I would assume what you say has been verified. Because verified Watch Association guidlines say otherwise.[/quote]
Not sure how it works in Texas or Florida, but in Michigan if a business or property owner posts no firearms you can’t bring one in regardless on if you have a CCW. So no the state license would not override local authority. But that is Michigan.
[/quote]
A tad different in TX…but the sign has to be the regulation code sign against carrying firearm. A simple sign warning against it doesn’t override it here.
I’m not too familiar with carry law in FL…but regardless, Watch programs don’t allow firearms regardless of state license…WHILE on actual patrol. IF Zimmerman was just strolling through the neighborhood in a non-patrol capacity…that is different.
Here is an article about the role of neighborhood watch. Apparently, Zimmerman was not even allowed to patrol at all, that was a different and specifically trained group that has marked cars, so there is probably not going to be any watch schedule or anything to disprove his claims that he was driving home and not patrolling. It also says that neighborhood watch are not supposed to carry weapons, but it is still not actually illegal to do so, he would at worst be kicked out of the neighborhood watch for doing so.
[quote]four60 wrote:
From the 911 tapes it seems we know what Zimmeran thought of Martin (he thought the kid was up to something, maybe on drugs and told the 911 operater “These assholes always get away”)
Its hard to say what Martin thought of Zimmerman other than he wondered why the guy was following him and felt the need to run from Zimmerman.
What they said to each other when they came face to face is anyone’s guess and can go 2000 dif ways if you have a good imagination.
[/quote]
What’s clear is that Zimmerman’s choice of action provoked Trayvon’s. This wasn’t some random assault on Zimmerman. He set the wheels in motion when he didn’t have to and when he was advised not to. [/quote]
Okay. If so what degree of provocation warrants Trayvon to attack?
Here is an article about the role of neighborhood watch. Apparently, Zimmerman was not even allowed to patrol at all, that was a different and specifically trained group that has marked cars, so there is probably not going to be any watch schedule or anything to disprove his claims that he was driving home and not patrolling. It also says that neighborhood watch are not supposed to carry weapons, but it is still not actually illegal to do so, he would at worst be kicked out of the neighborhood watch for doing so.[/quote]
That’s what I said earlier. He was self appointed, and apparently his neighbors didn’t care.
[quote]four60 wrote:
From the 911 tapes it seems we know what Zimmeran thought of Martin (he thought the kid was up to something, maybe on drugs and told the 911 operater “These assholes always get away”)
Its hard to say what Martin thought of Zimmerman other than he wondered why the guy was following him and felt the need to run from Zimmerman.
What they said to each other when they came face to face is anyone’s guess and can go 2000 dif ways if you have a good imagination.
[/quote]
What’s clear is that Zimmerman’s choice of action provoked Trayvon’s. This wasn’t some random assault on Zimmerman. He set the wheels in motion when he didn’t have to and when he was advised not to. [/quote]
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
It wouldn’t be weird at all for Trayvon to take offense at “disrespect” from a perceived authority figure.
[/quote]
It wouldn’t be weird for ANYONE to take offense. I have no issues with authority but I have issues with people not minding their own business so I would have told him to do just that. Ask a stranger in NYC a personal question and see what response you get. The idea that only a teen with “authority issues” (like what teen doesn’t?) is the only one who get offended is ridiculous. [/quote]
Right. Telling some one to mind his own business and attacking him are two actions with an ocean between.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Or that Trayvon, shown to have authority issues in general, attacked and brought us to the situation at hand.[/quote]
But Zimmerman had zero authority so Trayvon’s issues with him could just as easily have been some kid thinking he is being harassed by a weirdo or perv and not someone in the position of being an authority which Zimmerman wasn’t in the first place. Trayvon probably considered Zimmerman for what he is: a random douchebag. [/quote]
Zimmerman probably mentioned neighborhood watch and asked what Trayvon was doing, creating the perception of authority.
We don’t know of course but it is a more likely scenario.[/quote]
Only if Trayvon believed neighborhood watch actually meant something, which it doesn’t. Mall cops have more authority. [/quote]
Google “perception”.[/quote]
Why? Obviously Zimmerman perceived himself as having authority but that doesn’t mean Trayvon perceived it. Perception is formed in the mind of the one perceiving, not by the one being perceived. Thus it’s how Trayvon saw him, not how he saw himself.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Or that Trayvon, shown to have authority issues in general, attacked and brought us to the situation at hand.[/quote]
But Zimmerman had zero authority so Trayvon’s issues with him could just as easily have been some kid thinking he is being harassed by a weirdo or perv and not someone in the position of being an authority which Zimmerman wasn’t in the first place. Trayvon probably considered Zimmerman for what he is: a random douchebag. [/quote]
Zimmerman probably mentioned neighborhood watch and asked what Trayvon was doing, creating the perception of authority.
We don’t know of course but it is a more likely scenario.[/quote]
Only if Trayvon believed neighborhood watch actually meant something, which it doesn’t. Mall cops have more authority. [/quote]
Google “perception”.[/quote]
Why? Obviously Zimmerman perceived himself as having authority but that doesn’t mean Trayvon perceived it. Perception is formed in the mind of the one perceiving, not by the one being perceived. Thus it’s how Trayvon saw him, not how he saw himself. [/quote]
To gain context. Apply it appropriately to the conversation, not your edit and quit playing dumb if you want continued responses.
Here is an article about the role of neighborhood watch. Apparently, Zimmerman was not even allowed to patrol at all, that was a different and specifically trained group that has marked cars, so there is probably not going to be any watch schedule or anything to disprove his claims that he was driving home and not patrolling. It also says that neighborhood watch are not supposed to carry weapons, but it is still not actually illegal to do so, he would at worst be kicked out of the neighborhood watch for doing so.[/quote]
That’s what I said earlier. He was self appointed, and apparently his neighbors didn’t care.
[/quote]
So the whole “Watch Captain” thing was just to show that Zimmerman was worried about crime?
So now we are down to just an average Joe going to the store who notices another guy coming from the store.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
You will have to show the opposite to be true. If you don’t understand why you’re just going to have to live in your own bubble.[/quote]
That’s a cop-out.
Here is an article about the role of neighborhood watch. Apparently, Zimmerman was not even allowed to patrol at all, that was a different and specifically trained group that has marked cars, so there is probably not going to be any watch schedule or anything to disprove his claims that he was driving home and not patrolling. It also says that neighborhood watch are not supposed to carry weapons, but it is still not actually illegal to do so, he would at worst be kicked out of the neighborhood watch for doing so.[/quote]
That’s what I said earlier. He was self appointed, and apparently his neighbors didn’t care.
[/quote]
Yeah, but unfortunately there is no proof that Zimmerman was trying to use his “authority” in this situation. He probably was, but now it is Zimmerman’s word against a dead kid and I doubt Zimmerman will be admitting to that.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Or that Trayvon, shown to have authority issues in general, attacked and brought us to the situation at hand.[/quote]
But Zimmerman had zero authority so Trayvon’s issues with him could just as easily have been some kid thinking he is being harassed by a weirdo or perv and not someone in the position of being an authority which Zimmerman wasn’t in the first place. Trayvon probably considered Zimmerman for what he is: a random douchebag. [/quote]
Zimmerman probably mentioned neighborhood watch and asked what Trayvon was doing, creating the perception of authority.
We don’t know of course but it is a more likely scenario.[/quote]
Only if Trayvon believed neighborhood watch actually meant something, which it doesn’t. Mall cops have more authority. [/quote]
Google “perception”.[/quote]
Why? Obviously Zimmerman perceived himself as having authority but that doesn’t mean Trayvon perceived it. Perception is formed in the mind of the one perceiving, not by the one being perceived. Thus it’s how Trayvon saw him, not how he saw himself. [/quote]
And to be honest why should I trust you if I’m Martin. No Uniform, Badge, Partner to confirm anything. All I see is the guy who followed me.
Here is an article about the role of neighborhood watch. Apparently, Zimmerman was not even allowed to patrol at all, that was a different and specifically trained group that has marked cars, so there is probably not going to be any watch schedule or anything to disprove his claims that he was driving home and not patrolling. It also says that neighborhood watch are not supposed to carry weapons, but it is still not actually illegal to do so, he would at worst be kicked out of the neighborhood watch for doing so.[/quote]
That’s what I said earlier. He was self appointed, and apparently his neighbors didn’t care.
[/quote]
So the whole “Watch Captain” thing was just to show that Zimmerman was worried about crime?
So now we are down to just an average Joe going to the store who notices another guy coming from the store.[/quote]
Apparently. In an earlier report, it read that Zimmerman was not even registered as townwatch captain with the community association, nor the township.
Talk about delusions of grandeur. Worse than a rentacop.
Here is an article about the role of neighborhood watch. Apparently, Zimmerman was not even allowed to patrol at all, that was a different and specifically trained group that has marked cars, so there is probably not going to be any watch schedule or anything to disprove his claims that he was driving home and not patrolling. It also says that neighborhood watch are not supposed to carry weapons, but it is still not actually illegal to do so, he would at worst be kicked out of the neighborhood watch for doing so.[/quote]
That’s what I said earlier. He was self appointed, and apparently his neighbors didn’t care.
[/quote]
So the whole “Watch Captain” thing was just to show that Zimmerman was worried about crime?
So now we are down to just an average Joe going to the store who notices another guy coming from the store.[/quote]
I am sure that is what Zimmerman told the police. I don’t buy it for a second, but there is no real evidence so it will not likely be an issue in any trial that may occur.
[quote]JLD2k3 wrote:
Slightly off topic, but I just put DarkNinjaa on “ignore” and my experience in this thread is much more enjoyable.[/quote]
I can understand why some would want to do that. She does have an overly aggressive/insulting posting style that makes it hard to take her seriously, but there are some things that she writes that are worth reading so I will keep her off ignore.