Black Teen Shot 3

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

Chasing a woman down a dark alley at night and driving through a neighborhood, getting out of a car to ask a question and then returning to your car where you are attacked are not similar scenarios.[/quote]

WTF?

How are they different? No one else knows your intentions. Your ACTIONS are all anyone can go by…and Zimmerman was nowhere near his car and if all he was doing was asking questions why was he CHASING him? Who gives a shit if he thought about going back to the truck. He chased that kid for blocks behind some houses. That IS THE POLICE’S JOB.

Just like the woman in the ally, I could be chasing her to give her her wallet back. Does that mean if she thinks I am going to attack, kicks me and then I shoot her, I get off?[/quote]

He may respond with telling you you’re full of shit

You guys are painting this narrative in your head where Zimmerman is 10-15 feet behind Trayvon who is sprinting for his life.

According to Zimmerman, he was just trying to maintain visual contact with Trayvon, whom he believed was trying to escape. HE NEVER INTENDED TO CONFRONT HIM, PHYSICALLY, VERBALLY OR OTHERWISE.

So…The take home message is it is not illegal to chase after someone in the night…But perfectly un-normal for the person being chased to think the worst and want to defend his/herself?

Zimmerman clearly announces to the 911 operator that he is following Martin. That is a FACT.

For people who are such staunch supporters of the stand your ground law and self defense the double standard here reeks to high heaven.

[quote]overstand wrote:
You guys are painting this narrative in your head where Zimmerman is 10-15 feet behind Trayvon who is sprinting for his life.

According to Zimmerman, he was just trying to maintain visual contact with Trayvon, whom he believed was trying to escape. HE NEVER INTENDED TO CONFRONT HIM, PHYSICALLY, VERBALLY OR OTHERWISE. [/quote]

Maybe not initially, but according to the phone convo Tray had with his GF, Zimm DID get close enough for a verbal exchange, obviously.

My martial arts teachers all have always told me the first step to self defense is to try and avoid a potentially dangerous situation to begin with.

I’ve also been taught (situation by situation basis of course) to not be the first one to throw the first punch but to be the first one to land the first punch.

According to these standards that I hold to, IMHO Zimmerman shouldn’t have gotten out of his car in the first place.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Is it illegal to chase after a woman at night down a dark alley? Last I checked, it isn’t.
[/quote]

It sure is.

Look up menacing

Stalking (Florida statutes found under menacing by stalking)

Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2008)

(1) As used in this section, the term:

                            (a)      "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such person and serves no legitimate purpose.

                            (b)      "Course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose. Constitutionally protected activity is not included within the meaning of "course of conduct." Such constitutionally protected activity includes picketing or other organized protests.

                            (c)      "Credible threat" means a threat made with the intent to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety. The threat must be against the life of, or a threat to cause bodily injury to, a person.

                            (d)      "Cyberstalk" means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.

(2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person’s child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(4) Any person who, after an injunction for protection against repeat violence, sexual violence, or dating violence pursuant to s. 784.046, or an injunction for protection against domestic violence pursuant to s. 741.30, or after any other court-imposed prohibition of conduct toward the subject person or that person’s property, knowingly, willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(5) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks a minor under 16 years of age commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(6) Any law enforcement officer may arrest, without a warrant, any person he or she has probable cause to believe has violated the provisions of this section.

(7) Any person who, after having been sentenced for a violation of s. 794.011, s. 800.04, or s. 847.0135(5) and prohibited from contacting the victim of the offense under s. 921.244, willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks the victim commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(8) The punishment imposed under this section shall run consecutive to any former sentence imposed for a conviction for any offense under s. 794.011, s. 800.04, or s. 847.0135(5).

http://www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_Florida108

A,B and C all seem to fit. IDK

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
You guys are painting this narrative in your head where Zimmerman is 10-15 feet behind Trayvon who is sprinting for his life.

According to Zimmerman, he was just trying to maintain visual contact with Trayvon, whom he believed was trying to escape. HE NEVER INTENDED TO CONFRONT HIM, PHYSICALLY, VERBALLY OR OTHERWISE. [/quote]

Maybe not initially, but according to the phone convo Tray had with his GF, Zimm DID get close enough for a verbal exchange, obviously.
[/quote]

I’m sorry but this is reaching to the maximum. His intent does not mimic his actions.

You call 911 and describe a person you see as " up to something" “possibly on Drugs” one of the “assholes that always get away”. You leave the safety of your car to pursue this “late teenage black youth”. You follow him around a corner to the extint of losing sight of your car. But you never think that after he shows fear and runs that continued pursuit is a dangerous act.

And if anyone is wondering how I know he continued to follow after Martin ran. He states it on the UNEDITED 911 tape.

Back to Martin. I’m sure after Leaving the store and walking in the direction of his home with the Candy and Ice tea he bought. After noticing Zimmerman following and running away HE DID NOT INTEND TO DIE WITHIN SIGHT OF THE PLACE HE WAS STAYING?

What about the RIGHTS of MARTIN. The UNARMED person in this situation.

Being pursued by an armed stranger- Did he have the right to defend himself?

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

And? He was being chased. Zimmerman was stalking him, pursuing him, and menacing him while armed.

Why the hell is the kid at fault for thinking what most normal people would if someone chases them at night?

They were too far from the car for that to even be a factor. No one would know this jackass’s intentions psychically. All we do know is he left his car to chase after what he thought was a criminal…when there is no reason for someone to do that unless they plan on doing something once they catch the guy.

He had a gun. Why would anyone assume he was not intending to use it?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

And? He was being chased. Zimmerman was stalking him, pursuing him, and menacing him while armed.

Why the hell is the kid at fault for thinking what most normal people would if someone chases them at night?

They were too far from the car for that to even be a factor. No one would know this jackass’s intentions psychically. All we do know is he left his car to chase after what he thought was a criminal…when there is no reason for someone to do that unless they plan on doing something once they catch the guy.

He had a gun. Why would anyone assume he was not intending to use it?[/quote]

Must we go back to square 1 every time someone debates with you? We don’t know if the gun was visible or not.

If Trayvon got to his dad’s GF’s house and then doubled back to attack Zimmerman he deserved to get shot.

And there is a perfectly logical reason for getting out of your car if you believe a criminal is trying to flee. If you look at the map, Trayvon was out of line of sight of Zimmerman in his vehicle. Believing that Trayvon was trying to flee, he wanted to maintain a visual so he could direct police to the correct location once they arrived.

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
You guys are painting this narrative in your head where Zimmerman is 10-15 feet behind Trayvon who is sprinting for his life.

According to Zimmerman, he was just trying to maintain visual contact with Trayvon, whom he believed was trying to escape. HE NEVER INTENDED TO CONFRONT HIM, PHYSICALLY, VERBALLY OR OTHERWISE. [/quote]

Maybe not initially, but according to the phone convo Tray had with his GF, Zimm DID get close enough for a verbal exchange, obviously.
[/quote]

I’m sorry but this is reaching to the maximum. His intent does not mimic his actions.

You call 911 and describe a person you see as " up to something" “possibly on Drugs” one of the “assholes that always get away”. You leave the safety of your car to pursue this “late teenage black youth”. You follow him around a corner to the extint of losing sight of your car. But you never think that after he shows fear and runs that continued pursuit is a dangerous act.

And if anyone is wondering how I know he continued to follow after Martin ran. He states it on the UNEDITED 911 tape.

Back to Martin. I’m sure after Leaving the store and walking in the direction of his home with the Candy and Ice tea he bought. After noticing Zimmerman following and running away HE DID NOT INTEND TO DIE WITHIN SIGHT OF THE PLACE HE WAS STAYING?

What about the RIGHTS of MARTIN. The UNARMED person in this situation.

Being pursued by an armed stranger- Did he have the right to defend himself? [/quote]

As far as intent, in a previous 911 call, Zimmerman states that there is a suspicious looking person but that he doesn’t want to confront them directly.

According to Zimmerman, he was maintaining a visual on Trayvon so he could direct police to the correct address. Once the 911 operator advised him that he didn’t need to do that, he turned around and headed back to his truck.

It was at this point that Trayvon attacked him.

THERE WAS NO JAMES BOND ACTION MOVIE CHASE WITH ZIMMERMAN WIELDING A GUN AND TRAYVON SPRINTING FOR HIS LIFE. YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP IN YOUR HEAD TO MATCH THE PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

And? He was being chased. Zimmerman was stalking him, pursuing him, and menacing him while armed.

Why the hell is the kid at fault for thinking what most normal people would if someone chases them at night?

They were too far from the car for that to even be a factor. No one would know this jackass’s intentions psychically. All we do know is he left his car to chase after what he thought was a criminal…when there is no reason for someone to do that unless they plan on doing something once they catch the guy.

He had a gun. Why would anyone assume he was not intending to use it?[/quote]

And there is a perfectly logical reason for getting out of your car if you believe a criminal is trying to flee. If you look at the map, Trayvon was out of line of sight of Zimmerman in his vehicle. Believing that Trayvon was trying to flee, he wanted to maintain a visual so he could direct police to the correct location once they arrived.
[/quote]

Must we keep pointing out that, what made martain a criminal?

If this was the case why did he hang up? Surely a second to second update would allow him to tell the police where he is?

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

And? He was being chased. Zimmerman was stalking him, pursuing him, and menacing him while armed.

Why the hell is the kid at fault for thinking what most normal people would if someone chases them at night?

They were too far from the car for that to even be a factor. No one would know this jackass’s intentions psychically. All we do know is he left his car to chase after what he thought was a criminal…when there is no reason for someone to do that unless they plan on doing something once they catch the guy.

He had a gun. Why would anyone assume he was not intending to use it?[/quote]

And there is a perfectly logical reason for getting out of your car if you believe a criminal is trying to flee. If you look at the map, Trayvon was out of line of sight of Zimmerman in his vehicle. Believing that Trayvon was trying to flee, he wanted to maintain a visual so he could direct police to the correct location once they arrived.
[/quote]

Must we keep pointing out that, what made martain a criminal?

If this was the case why did he hang up? Surely a second to second update would allow him to tell the police where he is?
[/quote]

He hung up because he no longer had a visual on Trayvon and was heading back to his truck to meet police.

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

If that’s the truth, think about it for a moment.

If I was walking home in the dark back to my loved one’s home, and some suspicious asshole is following me, do you think I want the fucker to KNOW where I live? Why would I want to possibly endanger my loved ones by leading the way right to my home?

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
You guys are painting this narrative in your head where Zimmerman is 10-15 feet behind Trayvon who is sprinting for his life.

According to Zimmerman, he was just trying to maintain visual contact with Trayvon, whom he believed was trying to escape. HE NEVER INTENDED TO CONFRONT HIM, PHYSICALLY, VERBALLY OR OTHERWISE. [/quote]

Maybe not initially, but according to the phone convo Tray had with his GF, Zimm DID get close enough for a verbal exchange, obviously.
[/quote]

I’m sorry but this is reaching to the maximum. His intent does not mimic his actions.

You call 911 and describe a person you see as " up to something" “possibly on Drugs” one of the “assholes that always get away”. You leave the safety of
your car to pursue this “late teenage black youth”. You follow him around a corner to the extint of losing sight of your car. But you never think that after he shows fear and runs that continued pursuit is a dangerous act.

And if anyone is wondering how I know he continued to follow after Martin ran. He states it on the UNEDITED 911 tape.

Back to Martin. I’m sure after Leaving the store and walking in the direction of his home with the Candy and Ice tea he bought. After noticing Zimmerman following and running away HE DID NOT INTEND TO DIE WITHIN SIGHT OF THE PLACE HE WAS STAYING?
What about the RIGHTS of MARTIN. The UNARMED person in this situation.

Being pursued by an armed stranger- Did he have the right to defend himself? [/quote]

As far as intent, in a previous 911 call, Zimmerman states that there is a suspicious looking person but that he doesn’t want to confront them directly.

According to Zimmerman, he was maintaining a visual on Trayvon so he could direct police to the correct address. Once the 911 operator advised him that he didn’t need to do that, he turned around and headed back to his truck.

It was at this point that Trayvon attacked him.

THERE WAS NO JAMES BOND ACTION MOVIE CHASE WITH ZIMMERMAN WIELDING A GUN AND TRAYVON SPRINTING FOR HIS LIFE. YOU ARE
MAKING SHIT UP IN YOUR HEAD TO MATCH THE PRECONCEIVED NARRATIVE YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.[/quote]

The only Action movie scenarios being cast is from you. Nothing I stated was from a mythological Maybe Land but from Zimmermans own mouth. Point to the part that I state Zimmerman is being anything but a Dumbass.

Zimmerman Knows he in possession a a Gun. That should raise your Caution not lower it. I also Carry for self defense and His actions go against everything we are Told to do. YOU DO NOT PLACE YOUSELF IN A POSITION THAT will Diminish YOUR OPTIONS.

I get it you want Zimmermans Actions to be validated. But no one can get around the FACT that HIS actions escalated the situation to the point that he took the life of a PERSON THAT WAS NOT COMMITING A CRIME.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

If that’s the truth, think about it for a moment.

If I was walking home in the dark back to my loved one’s home, and some suspicious asshole is following me, do you think I want the fucker to KNOW where I live? Why would I want to possibly endanger my loved ones by leading the way right to my home?
[/quote]

Your stupid ID. Don’t you know we are making up stuff! Who the hell feels threatened by a strange man in the dark following you.

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

Check that out, a breakdown of the neighborhood with times as the correlate to the 911 call. They believe Trayvon doubled back.[/quote]

If that’s the truth, think about it for a moment.

If I was walking home in the dark back to my loved one’s home, and some suspicious asshole is following me, do you think I want the fucker to KNOW where I live? Why would I want to possibly endanger my loved ones by leading the way right to my home?
[/quote]

Your stupid ID. Don’t you know we are making up stuff! Who the hell feels threatened by a strange man in the dark following you.
[/quote]

It’s like the thread turned into Maybe Baby Land.

Zimmerman had turned around, he was no longer pursuing, Trayvon was home free, any danger he perceived had passed. All he had to do was walk inside, sit on the couch and eat his skittles.

Instead, Trayvon re-initiated the conflict, and then escalated it to physical violence.