[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Once more is released we’ll know more …[/quote]
Exactly. You’re convinced he was being profiled before you even have the whole story. I can’t say whether he was or wasn’t because I’m not going to pretend like I know the way some of you are. I’m pretty sure it’s been beaten to death in the last thread so I’ll just leave it at that.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
All you are doing is suggesting I take your word for the end all, be all truth. Not happening. You were a shitty teacher passing the buck.
Your opinion means shit. Come back with substantiated fact if you want to continue. Until then, you are the douche with a jaded world view screaming from the worlds smallest soapbox.[/quote]
And you aren’t doing the same? Only it’s not your word but someone else’s. That’s called hearsay. I guess everyone else has to produce facts but not you.
I don’t have a problem with a stranger, at night, on foot, being checked out in a gated community.
Those are nice places.
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
Indeed, during the day, anyone walking, unless walking a dog, pushing a baby stroller, being an old person, or in obvious jogging clothes is suspect.
The whole race bullshit is a distraction.
On foot = out of place.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
Even kids? That thing in your mouth, it’s called a foot.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
?After the shot, one man got up,? the man said. ?He was walking towards where I was watching and I could see him a little bit clearer, and see that he was a hispanic man and he was, you know, he didn?t appear hurt or anything else, he just seemed very worried.?
[/quote]
Hispanic? Wow. Weren’t people saying in one of the last threads that they wouldn’t be able to tell whether Zimmerman was hispanic or white? This guy was able to do it in the dark on a damp day…
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
Except Trayvon was found face down and shot in the chest. Did the witness also see Zimmerman flip the body over, or did he not think of that when he made up his story?
[/quote]
I’m sorry…but why would it be strange that Zimmerman manipulated the body at all after the shot went off?
It says he looked “worried”. Someone like that would check to see if the kid was dead, right?
If he didn’t, does that mean Trayvon died immediately?
The man’s story is not contradicted at all since Trayvon was found face down like he described.[/quote]
So Zimmerman was on top, shot Trayvon in the chest and then flipped him over on to his stomach? He couldn’t check his pulse if he was lying face up?[/quote]
He could have checked to see if the bullet passed through. It doesn’t matter. The kid was shot in the chest and found on his back. SOMETHING must have turned him over or he fell that way.
remember, Zimmerman doesn’t seem rational at all so why is this somehow something he can’t do?
LOL at people ignoring how off this man was yet still acting like his choices were perfectly rational and sound.[/quote]
I thought previous transgressions didn’t matter? Because, you know, Trayvon attacked a bus driver and all.[/quote]
But he wasn’t carrying a gun.
[/quote]
Irrelevant.[/quote]
Not really. When you carry a gun you can’t afford to be an idiot. Does anyone really believe that Trayvon would have (let alone could have) killed Zimmerman with his bare hands? Anyone other than Zimmerman? [/quote]
Death or serious injury so yes.[/quote]
I should have added anyone without an agenda as well. Now Trayvon goes from a kid walking home with skittles to someone who wanted to kill with his bare hands. You really are trying too hard. [/quote]
I believe HG was pointing out that one need not necessarily fear death and that serious bodily injury is also grounds for self defense.
[/quote]
Yes and in the event Trayvon attacked Zimmerman which has been the topic of debate, or so I thought.[/quote]
No, you were implying that Zimmerman carrying a deadly weapon was somehow the same as Trayvon carrying his…fists. In other words: Zimmerman was a hothead. Oh yeah, so was Trayvon. Zimmerman however was a hothead with a gun. Trayvon was a hothead with hands. I don’t think anyone would say that they cancel each other out. The one with the gun, for his own protection let alone the safety of others, should carry more burden to behave rationally. [/quote]
You just read what I was implying. I appreciate your projection though.
Following your rabbit hole just for fun and based on evidence corroborating the story being discussed, Zimmerman was attacked by Martin and drew his weapon in self defense, not a hot headed decision to murder; making the gun he was carrying irrelevant to your point of two hot headed dudes getting in to some ego fueled tussle ending in murder.
At least pretend to have half a head in the ongoing conversation.[/quote]
You can follow down the “your rabbit hole just for fun and based on evidence corroborating the story being discussed” but don’t disregard said evidence. Zimmerman followed Martin, and based on his voice on the 911 calls the general consensus can agree he ran after him. Now if being a hothead is defined as a hasty or impetuous person (the free dictionary), then both parties can be determined hotheads based on the evidence. But Zimmerman’s police report says Negligent Homicide/Unnecessary killing. This event is something that Zimmerman precipated by (self-admittedly) following the boy. You can go down as many rabbit holes as you’d like, but that is still evidence. Please try to keep in context.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
BTW the version of the 911 tape I heard was a full version that had the operater asking the ethinicity of Zimmerman’s “suspect” so in my opinion nothing has changed…except that the media is on a forever revolving spin cycle…wheeling and dealing things in their favor.[/quote]
Agree again. I even mentioned my focus was on him being called a drug user and profiled as a criminal FOR WALKING. There was no other reason to assume he was a criminal unless through profiling.
I am not surprised that this news station’s screw up will be treated like it was the reason people saw racial bias when I seriously doubt that was the defining piece in anyone’s attempt to call this like they see it.
This kid was determined to be a criminal when nothing was known about him but the fact that he had two legs and dark skin.[/quote]
I bet he would have been arrested if he were black and the kid shot were white
Professor x statement first thread about this sums up your views perfectly.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/postMessagePrep.do?messageType=reply&topicId=5128930"eId=5129428
hmmmmm.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
I don’t have a problem with a stranger, at night, on foot, being checked out in a gated community.
Those are nice places.
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
Indeed, during the day, anyone walking, unless walking a dog, pushing a baby stroller, being an old person, or in obvious jogging clothes is suspect.
The whole race bullshit is a distraction.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
? So, if a store is in walking distance, it would be strange to see people walk to it? Because they all have cars? If his dad who lives there didn’t think it was strange to let his kid walk, why do you?
What distraction?
[quote]BE RELENTLESS wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
Except Trayvon was found face down and shot in the chest. Did the witness also see Zimmerman flip the body over, or did he not think of that when he made up his story?
[/quote]
I’m sorry…but why would it be strange that Zimmerman manipulated the body at all after the shot went off?
It says he looked “worried”. Someone like that would check to see if the kid was dead, right?
If he didn’t, does that mean Trayvon died immediately?
The man’s story is not contradicted at all since Trayvon was found face down like he described.[/quote]
So Zimmerman was on top, shot Trayvon in the chest and then flipped him over on to his stomach? He couldn’t check his pulse if he was lying face up?[/quote]
He could have checked to see if the bullet passed through. It doesn’t matter. The kid was shot in the chest and found on his back. SOMETHING must have turned him over or he fell that way.
remember, Zimmerman doesn’t seem rational at all so why is this somehow something he can’t do?
LOL at people ignoring how off this man was yet still acting like his choices were perfectly rational and sound.[/quote]
I thought previous transgressions didn’t matter? Because, you know, Trayvon attacked a bus driver and all.[/quote]
But he wasn’t carrying a gun.
[/quote]
Irrelevant.[/quote]
Not really. When you carry a gun you can’t afford to be an idiot. Does anyone really believe that Trayvon would have (let alone could have) killed Zimmerman with his bare hands? Anyone other than Zimmerman? [/quote]
Death or serious injury so yes.[/quote]
I should have added anyone without an agenda as well. Now Trayvon goes from a kid walking home with skittles to someone who wanted to kill with his bare hands. You really are trying too hard. [/quote]
I believe HG was pointing out that one need not necessarily fear death and that serious bodily injury is also grounds for self defense.
[/quote]
Yes and in the event Trayvon attacked Zimmerman which has been the topic of debate, or so I thought.[/quote]
No, you were implying that Zimmerman carrying a deadly weapon was somehow the same as Trayvon carrying his…fists. In other words: Zimmerman was a hothead. Oh yeah, so was Trayvon. Zimmerman however was a hothead with a gun. Trayvon was a hothead with hands. I don’t think anyone would say that they cancel each other out. The one with the gun, for his own protection let alone the safety of others, should carry more burden to behave rationally. [/quote]
You just read what I was implying. I appreciate your projection though.
Following your rabbit hole just for fun and based on evidence corroborating the story being discussed, Zimmerman was attacked by Martin and drew his weapon in self defense, not a hot headed decision to murder; making the gun he was carrying irrelevant to your point of two hot headed dudes getting in to some ego fueled tussle ending in murder.
At least pretend to have half a head in the ongoing conversation.[/quote]
You can follow down the “your rabbit hole just for fun and based on evidence corroborating the story being discussed” but don’t disregard said evidence. Zimmerman followed Martin, and based on his voice on the 911 calls the general consensus can agree he ran after him. Now if being a hothead is defined as a hasty or impetuous person (the free dictionary), then both parties can be determined hotheads based on the evidence. But Zimmerman’s police report says Negligent Homicide/Unnecessary killing. This event is something that Zimmerman precipated by (self-admittedly) following the boy. You can go down as many rabbit holes as you’d like, but that is still evidence. Please try to keep in context.
[/quote]
His rabbit hole doesn’t start at the beginning.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
Even kids? That thing in your mouth, it’s called a foot. [/quote]
Yes, kids at night, no parents = out of place.
Normal kids don’t wander around at night alone.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
Even kids? That thing in your mouth, it’s called a foot. [/quote]
Yes, kids at night, no parents = out of place.
Normal kids don’t wander around at night alone.[/quote]
? There was a kid out walking his dog while the fight was happening.
So, ONLY kids with pets are allowed outside to walk at night?
What happens if the dog runs off (like what happened with that kid). Do you get shot at until you find it?
Please, keep typing.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
Even kids? That thing in your mouth, it’s called a foot. [/quote]
Yes, kids at night, no parents = out of place.
Normal kids don’t wander around at night alone.[/quote]
He wasn’t wandering. It wasn’t that late. You should probably give up at this point as you have no point.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, if a store is in walking distance, it would be strange to see people walk to it? Because they all have cars? [/quote]
Yes. It’s a lower class thing to walk.
Because bad things happen to normal kids who walk around alone at night. For example, they get shot. Normal middle class people know this, and don’t let their kids wander around after dark.
The idiocy that made this a race thing. It’s not. It certainly distracted you.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, if a store is in walking distance, it would be strange to see people walk to it? Because they all have cars? [/quote]
Yes. It’s a lower class thing to walk.
Because bad things happen to normal kids who walk around alone at night. For example, they get shot. Normal middle class people know this, and don’t let their kids wander around after dark.
The idiocy that made this a race thing. It’s not. It certainly distracted you.
[/quote]
You’re trolling. Please, say you’re trolling.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
Even kids? That thing in your mouth, it’s called a foot. [/quote]
Yes, kids at night, no parents = out of place.
Normal kids don’t wander around at night alone.[/quote]
? There was a kid out walking his dog while the fight was happening.
So, ONLY kids with pets are allowed outside to walk at night?
What happens if the dog runs off (like what happened with that kid). Do you get shot at until you find it?
Please, keep typing.[/quote]
Apparently, you’ve never lived in a nice neighborhood, and don’t know the mores.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, if a store is in walking distance, it would be strange to see people walk to it? Because they all have cars? [/quote]
Yes. It’s a lower class thing to walk.
Because bad things happen to normal kids who walk around alone at night. For example, they get shot. Normal middle class people know this, and don’t let their kids wander around after dark.
The idiocy that made this a race thing. It’s not. It certainly distracted you.
[/quote]
Am he was 17? He was a big boy, I’m sure he was old enough to walk to the shop by himself. I walk to the shop even though I drive. Alot of people do.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Normal people in those neighborhoods HAVE CARS, so anyone on foot at night is suspect.
On foot = out of place.
[/quote]
Even kids? That thing in your mouth, it’s called a foot. [/quote]
Yes, kids at night, no parents = out of place.
Normal kids don’t wander around at night alone.[/quote]
? There was a kid out walking his dog while the fight was happening.
So, ONLY kids with pets are allowed outside to walk at night?
What happens if the dog runs off (like what happened with that kid). Do you get shot at until you find it?
Please, keep typing.[/quote]
Apparently, you’ve never lived in a nice neighborhood, and don’t know the mores.[/quote]
Apparently, you’ve never lived.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, if a store is in walking distance, it would be strange to see people walk to it? Because they all have cars? [/quote]
Yes. It’s a lower class thing to walk.
Because bad things happen to normal kids who walk around alone at night. For example, they get shot. Normal middle class people know this, and don’t let their kids wander around after dark.
The idiocy that made this a race thing. It’s not. It certainly distracted you.
[/quote]
You’re trolling. Please, say you’re trolling. [/quote]
Have you ever lived in a gated community in the South, say Texas or Florida?
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, if a store is in walking distance, it would be strange to see people walk to it? Because they all have cars? [/quote]
Yes. It’s a lower class thing to walk.
Because bad things happen to normal kids who walk around alone at night. For example, they get shot. Normal middle class people know this, and don’t let their kids wander around after dark.
The idiocy that made this a race thing. It’s not. It certainly distracted you.
[/quote]
You’re trolling. Please, say you’re trolling. [/quote]
Have you ever lived in a gated community in the South, say Texas or Florida?[/quote]
Do you live in this gated community to know what is and isn’t normal there? Not even Zimmerman used the “he was walking” excuse when called 911.