Black Teen Shot 3

Off Topic
681

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

682

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
After following these threads, I have learned one thing:

Don’t argue with Houston Guy unless you have some facts and some sense.

Carry on.[/quote]

You mean you give him a valid argument and in return he says something meaningless and avoids answering what you said.[/quote]
Oh right, kinda like when you take a comment out of context, twist it’s meaning and then wonder why the reply was aimed at the original context.

683

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Why do people refer to Zimmerman as “neighborhood watch” in a way that implies it means something significant? It is a meaningless title that holds no more or less authority or gives any more or less rights than any other citizen. It does not make Zimmerman special or better than anyone else, although he may have thought that, and does not excuse anything he did or give him a legitimate reason to do what he did. He cannot fall back on it as having any relevance to defend his actions be they judged criminal or, simply irresponsible and idiotic. Besides all of of that apparently his “position” was self-appointed. The whole, “but he was neighborhood watch,” defense is ridiculous.

“You shouldn’t follow/chase someone on a rainy night. Someone might come to the reasonable conclusion that you are out to do them harm. It is also illegal.”

“But he was neighborhood watch.”

“Oh. In that case he is above the law.” [/quote]

We are to blame for that. The big Cable News guys came out with catch phrases for both sides and we (everyone) flew with it.

Zimmerman and Martin have been painted as things they are not both good and bad.

The first reports on Zimm had us all thinking he was in uniform and a marked car on Patrol.
The first Reports on Martin had us thinking he was 12.
BOTH wrong

The Second reports had Zimmerman as damn near neo Nazi out to kill black youth.
The second reports on Martin had him as a drug dealing Thug with a criminal record.
Both Wrong
( Martin has never been arrested for anything he was suspended but not EXPELLED and Zimm had a record with the police and both parties are not saints)

Martin was not a Thug Criminal, not a Saint he was Just a 17yr old kid who did have issues in his last school.
Zimmerman while not the Neo Nazi people want him to be is a Dumbass who had a record with the police. [/quote]
Also, for the record, Zimmerman’s arrest for “assaulting a ‘police officer’” is just a tad exaggerated too.

“Zimmerman had been arrested in 2005 for shoving a state alcohol agent officer during an argument at a bar. Charges were dropped after he entered a special program for first-time offenders.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

In Texas, these guys are the TABC or Texas Alchoholic Beverage Commission. This commission grants licenses to sell alchohol basically. There are also ‘special’ TABC enforcement officers, real hoots.

These cooters, often “undercover” hang out at bars trying to pop minors drinking. They are real douche bags. All the charicatures of Martin being “super cop” earlier apply here. Very pushy, condescending et cetera and often before identifying themselves as any type of officer.

It’s not a stretch to imagine one of them in Florida was being a real douche to Zimmerman and deserved the shove he got, then cried foul, kind of like Kobe flopping in the paint.

Just saying. It’s not like Zimmerman hauled off and decked an actual cop, as news reports would leave readers to believe.[/quote]

I never heard he swung at anyone. Just that he was arrested.
But some news agency’s and web news bloggers only posted him as an Lawful Neighborhood Watchman on patrol.

It’s why I don’t comment on his family, friends or coworkers statements. Same with Martins family, friends or Tweets.

[/quote]
That’s cool. Just adding to your list of media spun bullshit.

684

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

[/quote]
Your argument is immature and childlike. Children argue without using historical facts or personal experience. You obviously have a Zimmerman-like perception of yourself when it comes to debating but really should recognize when you are out of your depth. You don’t know how silly it looks when a white man tries interpreting the black experience to a black person.

My facts are based on what I saw and did. If the curriculum is the same does it mean it is being taught the same across the board? No, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is. It doesn’t mean that schools don’t pass kids when they shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean that standards of behavior are the same across the board. People in the student teaching phase were told to not say anything to kids when they swore because it was acceptable in their culture. That is preparing them for a real job in the real world, isn’t it?

I never gave homework. Why? Because kids wouldn’t do it. Why? Because other teachers didn’t give it so a precedent, a standard, was set. The excuse was that they wouldn’t do the homework anyway. Well, if you expect little, you get little.

My first day in one class I asked where their books were. They said they were locked in the closet. I asked how they studied at home. They said they didn’t bring the books home, so they didn’t study. The reason: if a student destroyed or lost a book, something that happens even in good schools, the teacher had to pay for it. So teachers responded accordingly. The reasoning was that since the kids were poor they wouldn’t be able to pay for the book, or they just wouldn’t pay regardless, so why hold them, or their parents, accountable. Again, setting expectations low.

I passed kids simply because they were well-behaved and good, not because they actually deserved the grade but I was told to grade generously. Why? Because it isn’t “fair” or “right” that a good kid fail and possibly get held back. Also, it increases the chances of dropping out which affects those pesky stats the admin cares so much about.

Standards of behavior? when I was in school if you told a teacher to F off you were suspended. There was zero tolerance. Where I worked if a student was sent to the office for something like that the vice principal would try and talk the teacher out of pushing for suspension. The result? A kid is back in class, he looks untouchable, and the teacher loses respect and has his authority diminished. One kid threatened a female teacher. She wanted him arrested but the VP was trying to talk her out of it. Why? It doesn’t look good for the school.

The teachers constantly complained about all of the enabling going on but for some reason, when it comes to educating, teachers’ opinions on the matter are not considered. You have a culture being created that breeds lack of civility, respect, self-control, accountability, etc., combined with low standards and expectations for learning that creates an uneducated class that is doomed to stay on the welfare and criminal cycle.

So we have what you think is going on vs what I know is going on. Come back when you actually KNOW something. Try learning something about social promotion.

Oh, and those standardized tests they give: I could tell you what a sham that is. It’s not like there are independent proctors present. I was even present when some were being graded. I never knew multiple choice meant multiple answers were correct.

685

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

[/quote]
Your argument is immature and childlike. Children argue without using historical facts or personal experience. You obviously have a Zimmerman-like perception of yourself when it comes to debating but really should recognize when you are out of your depth. You don’t know how silly it looks when a white man tries interpreting the black experience to a black person.

My facts are based on what I saw and did. If the curriculum is the same does it mean it is being taught the same across the board? No, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is. It doesn’t mean that schools pass kids when they shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean that standards of behavior are the same across the board. People in the student teaching phase were told to not say anything to kids when they swore because it was acceptable in their culture. That is preparing them for a real job in the real world, isn’t it?

I never gave homework. Why? Because kids wouldn’t do it. Why? Because other teachers didn’t give it so a precedent, a standard, was set. The excuse was that they wouldn’t do the homework anyway. Well, if you expect little, you get little.

My first day in one class I asked where their books were. They said they were locked in the closet. I asked how they studied at home. They said they didn’t bring the books home, so they didn’t study. The reason: if a student destroyed or lost a book, something that happens even in good schools, the teacher had to pay for it. So teachers responded accordingly. The reasoning was that since the kids were poor they wouldn’t be able to pay for the book, or they just wouldn’t pay regardless, so why hold them, or their parents, accountable. Again, setting expectations low.

I passed kids simply because they were well-behaved and good, not because they actually deserved the grade but I was told to grade generously. Why? Because it isn’t “fair” or “right” that a good kid fail and possibly get held back. Also, it increases the chances of dropping out which affects those pesky stats the admin cares so much about.

Standards of behavior? when I was in school if you to,d a teacher to F off you were suspended. There was zero tolerance. Where I worked if a student was sent to the office for something like that the vice principal would try and talk the teacher out of pushing for suspension. The result? A kid is back in class, he looks untouchable, and the teacher loses respect and has his authority diminished. One kid threatened a female teacher. She wanted him arrested but the VP was trying to talk her out of it. Why? It doesn’t look good for the school.

The teachers constantly complained about all of the enabling going on but for some reason, when it comes to educating, the teachers’ opinions on the matter are not considered. you have a culture being created that breeds lack of civility, respect, self-control, accountability, etc., combined with low standards and expectations for learning that creates an uneducated class that is doomed to stay on the welfare and criminal cycle.

So we have what you think is going on vs what I know is going on. Come back when you actually KNOW something. Try learning something about social promotion.

Oh, and those standardized tests they give. I could tell you what a sham that is. It’s not like there are independent proctors present. I was even present when some were being graded. I never knew multiple choice meant multiple answers were correct.

[/quote]
Historical facts or personal experience? Bullshit. You, the person making wild accusations, are unable to show me where the evil “system” curriculum is “holding kids back” because you can’t, it’s not true; completely unfactual.

I have discussed how the system is assissting students, plain as the sky is blue.

Personal opinion can certainly provide insight when backed by fact but the childish argument would actually be one based on personal opinions, because you know, personal opinions are never biased.

Show me factually where an organized educational system is intentionally fucking kids over.

While I’m sure you believe your opinions are God’s honest truth and are infallable sources of information, your conjecture, the only basis for any argument you’ve ever had in any of the three threads, is still bullshit. Long winded bullshit.

686

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

[/quote]
Your argument is immature and childlike. Children argue without using historical facts or personal experience. You obviously have a Zimmerman-like perception of yourself when it comes to debating but really should recognize when you are out of your depth. You don’t know how silly it looks when a white man tries interpreting the black experience to a black person.

My facts are based on what I saw and did. If the curriculum is the same does it mean it is being taught the same across the board? No, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is. It doesn’t mean that schools pass kids when they shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean that standards of behavior are the same across the board. People in the student teaching phase were told to not say anything to kids when they swore because it was acceptable in their culture. That is preparing them for a real job in the real world, isn’t it?

I never gave homework. Why? Because kids wouldn’t do it. Why? Because other teachers didn’t give it so a precedent, a standard, was set. The excuse was that they wouldn’t do the homework anyway. Well, if you expect little, you get little.

My first day in one class I asked where their books were. They said they were locked in the closet. I asked how they studied at home. They said they didn’t bring the books home, so they didn’t study. The reason: if a student destroyed or lost a book, something that happens even in good schools, the teacher had to pay for it. So teachers responded accordingly. The reasoning was that since the kids were poor they wouldn’t be able to pay for the book, or they just wouldn’t pay regardless, so why hold them, or their parents, accountable. Again, setting expectations low.

I passed kids simply because they were well-behaved and good, not because they actually deserved the grade but I was told to grade generously. Why? Because it isn’t “fair” or “right” that a good kid fail and possibly get held back. Also, it increases the chances of dropping out which affects those pesky stats the admin cares so much about.

Standards of behavior? when I was in school if you to,d a teacher to F off you were suspended. There was zero tolerance. Where I worked if a student was sent to the office for something like that the vice principal would try and talk the teacher out of pushing for suspension. The result? A kid is back in class, he looks untouchable, and the teacher loses respect and has his authority diminished. One kid threatened a female teacher. She wanted him arrested but the VP was trying to talk her out of it. Why? It doesn’t look good for the school.

The teachers constantly complained about all of the enabling going on but for some reason, when it comes to educating, the teachers’ opinions on the matter are not considered. you have a culture being created that breeds lack of civility, respect, self-control, accountability, etc., combined with low standards and expectations for learning that creates an uneducated class that is doomed to stay on the welfare and criminal cycle.

So we have what you think is going on vs what I know is going on. Come back when you actually KNOW something. Try learning something about social promotion.

Oh, and those standardized tests they give. I could tell you what a sham that is. It’s not like there are independent proctors present. I was even present when some were being graded. I never knew multiple choice meant multiple answers were correct.

[/quote]
Historical facts or personal experience? Bullshit. You, the person making wild accusations, are unable to show me where the evil “system” curriculum is “holding kids back” because you can’t, it’s not true; completely unfactual.

I have discussed how the system is assissting students, plain as the sky is blue.

Personal opinion can certainly provide insight when backed by fact but the childish argument would actually be one based on personal opinions, because you know, personal opinions are never biased.

Show me factually where an organized educational system is intentionally fucking kids over.

While I’m sure you believe your opinions are God’s honest truth and are infallable sources of information, your conjecture, the only basis for any argument you’ve ever had in any of the three threads, is still bullshit. Long winded bullshit.[/quote]
I didn’t give opinions. I related facts. Try and discern the difference as it will help your undeveloped debating skills.

687

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/nbcnews-trayvonmartin-idUSL2E8F3DHF20120403

Nice one Media.

That was not Racial profiling. That was answering questions by the Dispatcher.

Way to go NBC.[/quote]

Jesus Christ.

Did the Black Teen Shot 2 thread not spend 30 pages yelling about racial profiling?

Just wow…wow.

688

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

[/quote]
Your argument is immature and childlike. Children argue without using historical facts or personal experience. You obviously have a Zimmerman-like perception of yourself when it comes to debating but really should recognize when you are out of your depth. You don’t know how silly it looks when a white man tries interpreting the black experience to a black person.

My facts are based on what I saw and did. If the curriculum is the same does it mean it is being taught the same across the board? No, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is. It doesn’t mean that schools pass kids when they shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean that standards of behavior are the same across the board. People in the student teaching phase were told to not say anything to kids when they swore because it was acceptable in their culture. That is preparing them for a real job in the real world, isn’t it?

I never gave homework. Why? Because kids wouldn’t do it. Why? Because other teachers didn’t give it so a precedent, a standard, was set. The excuse was that they wouldn’t do the homework anyway. Well, if you expect little, you get little.

My first day in one class I asked where their books were. They said they were locked in the closet. I asked how they studied at home. They said they didn’t bring the books home, so they didn’t study. The reason: if a student destroyed or lost a book, something that happens even in good schools, the teacher had to pay for it. So teachers responded accordingly. The reasoning was that since the kids were poor they wouldn’t be able to pay for the book, or they just wouldn’t pay regardless, so why hold them, or their parents, accountable. Again, setting expectations low.

I passed kids simply because they were well-behaved and good, not because they actually deserved the grade but I was told to grade generously. Why? Because it isn’t “fair” or “right” that a good kid fail and possibly get held back. Also, it increases the chances of dropping out which affects those pesky stats the admin cares so much about.

Standards of behavior? when I was in school if you to,d a teacher to F off you were suspended. There was zero tolerance. Where I worked if a student was sent to the office for something like that the vice principal would try and talk the teacher out of pushing for suspension. The result? A kid is back in class, he looks untouchable, and the teacher loses respect and has his authority diminished. One kid threatened a female teacher. She wanted him arrested but the VP was trying to talk her out of it. Why? It doesn’t look good for the school.

The teachers constantly complained about all of the enabling going on but for some reason, when it comes to educating, the teachers’ opinions on the matter are not considered. you have a culture being created that breeds lack of civility, respect, self-control, accountability, etc., combined with low standards and expectations for learning that creates an uneducated class that is doomed to stay on the welfare and criminal cycle.

So we have what you think is going on vs what I know is going on. Come back when you actually KNOW something. Try learning something about social promotion.

Oh, and those standardized tests they give. I could tell you what a sham that is. It’s not like there are independent proctors present. I was even present when some were being graded. I never knew multiple choice meant multiple answers were correct.

[/quote]
Historical facts or personal experience? Bullshit. You, the person making wild accusations, are unable to show me where the evil “system” curriculum is “holding kids back” because you can’t, it’s not true; completely unfactual.

I have discussed how the system is assissting students, plain as the sky is blue.

Personal opinion can certainly provide insight when backed by fact but the childish argument would actually be one based on personal opinions, because you know, personal opinions are never biased.

Show me factually where an organized educational system is intentionally fucking kids over.

While I’m sure you believe your opinions are God’s honest truth and are infallable sources of information, your conjecture, the only basis for any argument you’ve ever had in any of the three threads, is still bullshit. Long winded bullshit.[/quote]
I didn’t give opinions. I related facts. Try and discern the difference as it will help your undeveloped debating skills. [/quote]
No, you gave your opinion as to why you think teachers didn’t give homework or basically do their jobs. Substantiate your “facts” please. Grapevine rumors will not stand as substantiation either Mr. Awesome Debator.

It sounds to me like you are just a shitty teacher. The Title One teachers I know give homework, assign books, design labs and prepare students for tests, participate in parent/faculty nights, take calls from concerned parents et cetera, all supported by the “system”.

Unfortunately you short changed the capable, caring students by letting the shit bags shade your whole perception and jumped on the bandwagon with some other shitty teachers by the sound of your post.

Bad employees are every where but it is a shame they show up in schools.

A “system” didn’t screw kids, you did. Books, assignments et cetera were available yet you chose to withhold them from hungry students AND let the unmotivated students hold poor perceptions of work rather than challenging them as a teacher should.

YOU did not utilize tools available. YOU short changed kids. Don’t blame a system when YOU refused to utilize the toolbox you were given. You should be jailed for negligence and for fraudulently wasting tax money; you were not being a teacher as defined and supported by “the system” and are not an accurate representation of the “system”.

689

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/nbcnews-trayvonmartin-idUSL2E8F3DHF20120403

Nice one Media.

That was not Racial profiling. That was answering questions by the Dispatcher.

Way to go NBC.[/quote]

Jesus Christ.

Did the Black Teen Shot 2 thread not spend 30 pages yelling about racial profiling?

Just wow…wow.[/quote]
Lolcat

690

In all due respect, there are so many versions of the 911 tapes it might as well be chopped and screwed at this point.

My feelings that it was racial profiling had nothing to do with any of the news stations or this “version” of the 911 tapes. I moved to California recently and haven’t had access to a TV. I felt it was racial profiling because he was a kid walking home in the rain and just because he happpened to be black was assumed criminal in Zimmerman’s mind and being up to no good. DID HE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE SUPICOUS??? MAYBE. Because of the recent crime in the area…but you still have NO IDEA who/what/where/why with this individual. Call the cops.

“These Assholes ALWAYS GET AWAY…” how is that not profiling? Already calling someone a criminal and thinking of them as such when you have NO IDEA who they are? But you know he could’ve just called the police and have them sort it out…but no…

Had to be fucking Captain Kirk take matters into my own hands type of guy. So he got “attacked” (in his words) set his phaser to kill and the rest is history.

691

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

[/quote]
Your argument is immature and childlike. Children argue without using historical facts or personal experience. You obviously have a Zimmerman-like perception of yourself when it comes to debating but really should recognize when you are out of your depth. You don’t know how silly it looks when a white man tries interpreting the black experience to a black person.

My facts are based on what I saw and did. If the curriculum is the same does it mean it is being taught the same across the board? No, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is. It doesn’t mean that schools pass kids when they shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean that standards of behavior are the same across the board. People in the student teaching phase were told to not say anything to kids when they swore because it was acceptable in their culture. That is preparing them for a real job in the real world, isn’t it?

I never gave homework. Why? Because kids wouldn’t do it. Why? Because other teachers didn’t give it so a precedent, a standard, was set. The excuse was that they wouldn’t do the homework anyway. Well, if you expect little, you get little.

My first day in one class I asked where their books were. They said they were locked in the closet. I asked how they studied at home. They said they didn’t bring the books home, so they didn’t study. The reason: if a student destroyed or lost a book, something that happens even in good schools, the teacher had to pay for it. So teachers responded accordingly. The reasoning was that since the kids were poor they wouldn’t be able to pay for the book, or they just wouldn’t pay regardless, so why hold them, or their parents, accountable. Again, setting expectations low.

I passed kids simply because they were well-behaved and good, not because they actually deserved the grade but I was told to grade generously. Why? Because it isn’t “fair” or “right” that a good kid fail and possibly get held back. Also, it increases the chances of dropping out which affects those pesky stats the admin cares so much about.

Standards of behavior? when I was in school if you to,d a teacher to F off you were suspended. There was zero tolerance. Where I worked if a student was sent to the office for something like that the vice principal would try and talk the teacher out of pushing for suspension. The result? A kid is back in class, he looks untouchable, and the teacher loses respect and has his authority diminished. One kid threatened a female teacher. She wanted him arrested but the VP was trying to talk her out of it. Why? It doesn’t look good for the school.

The teachers constantly complained about all of the enabling going on but for some reason, when it comes to educating, the teachers’ opinions on the matter are not considered. you have a culture being created that breeds lack of civility, respect, self-control, accountability, etc., combined with low standards and expectations for learning that creates an uneducated class that is doomed to stay on the welfare and criminal cycle.

So we have what you think is going on vs what I know is going on. Come back when you actually KNOW something. Try learning something about social promotion.

Oh, and those standardized tests they give. I could tell you what a sham that is. It’s not like there are independent proctors present. I was even present when some were being graded. I never knew multiple choice meant multiple answers were correct.

[/quote]
Historical facts or personal experience? Bullshit. You, the person making wild accusations, are unable to show me where the evil “system” curriculum is “holding kids back” because you can’t, it’s not true; completely unfactual.

I have discussed how the system is assissting students, plain as the sky is blue.

Personal opinion can certainly provide insight when backed by fact but the childish argument would actually be one based on personal opinions, because you know, personal opinions are never biased.

Show me factually where an organized educational system is intentionally fucking kids over.

While I’m sure you believe your opinions are God’s honest truth and are infallable sources of information, your conjecture, the only basis for any argument you’ve ever had in any of the three threads, is still bullshit. Long winded bullshit.[/quote]
I didn’t give opinions. I related facts. Try and discern the difference as it will help your undeveloped debating skills. [/quote]
No, you gave your opinion as to why you think teachers didn’t give homework or basically do their jobs. Substantiate your “facts” please. Grapevine rumors will not stand as substantiation either Mr. Awesome Debator.

It sounds to me like you are just a shitty teacher. The Title One teachers I know give homework, assign books, design labs and prepare students for tests, participate in parent/faculty nights, take calls from concerned parents et cetera, all supported by the “system”.

Unfortunately you short changed the capable, caring students by letting the shit bags shade your whole perception and jumped on the bandwagon with some other shitty teachers by the sound of your post.

Bad employees are every where but it is a shame they show up in schools.

A “system” didn’t screw kids, you did. Books, assignments et cetera were available yet you chose to withhold them from hungry students AND let the unmotivated students hold poor perceptions of work rather than challenging them as a teacher should.

YOU did not utilize tools available. YOU short changed kids. Don’t blame a system when YOU refused to utilize the toolbox you were given. You should be jailed for negligence and for fraudulently wasting tax money; you were not being a teacher as defined and supported by “the system” and are not an accurate representation of the “system”.[/quote]
You obviously don’t comprehend well. I entered into a system that “worked” a certain way long before I got there. Change doesn’t happen from the bottom up in education from the top (the board of ed, administrators, politicians)down. Toolbox I was given? I wasn’t even given a curriculum to try and follow. And I did a better job than the person I replaced who, instead of teaching kids how to speak Spanish, was teaching them how to salsa. I am speaking literally mind you. You seem to not know the difference between policy, which I had no control over, and whim.

I can see why you are considered a douchebag as you say I withheld books when I clearly said that the books were withheld BEFORE I got there. You just are not as clever or intelligent as you think. You obviously know very little about how the world works and reason like a teenager. Why don’t you tell me what it was like for me to live in the inner city since you are the expert on other people’s experience.

692

BTW the version of the 911 tape I heard was a full version that had the operater asking the ethinicity of Zimmerman’s “suspect” so in my opinion nothing has changed…except that the media is on a forever revolving spin cycle…wheeling and dealing things in their favor.

693

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Kids today and even twenty years ago get the same public education I got, take the same tests for college and get an upper hand in admissions with bullshit like top 10%.
[/quote]

And you base this assumption on what? Personal experience or imagination? Tell me how much time you have spent in inner city schools to come up with your obviously well-informed opinion.
[/quote]
So I assume it is imagination. [/quote]
Curriculum is the same across a state. There is no questioning that. No argument to be made.

Students have availability to tutoring across districts, no question. No argument to be made.

Honor programs exist in Title One schools and put out honor graduates. No argument to be made.

Hell, magnet schools are created to give poor kids who care and try a better environment surrounded by motivated peers instead of sitting in a willing cess pool. No argument to be made.

Mentorship programs are available, unlike suburban schools (who don’t need them). No argument to be made.

Some choose to take advantage of the free education, some don’t.

It’s cut and dry and there is no debate. You are full of shit. You know you are full of shit.

You can continue imagining what ever you’d like, your play world doesn’t mean much to me.

The “system” is offering a helping hand, not shoving people down. Whether or not people take the hand is ultimately up to them. Absolutely nobody has a clear path lined out for them that tells them to “turn left here, take the right fork there, go slow on that stretch and look behind all the oak trees for pots of gold.” People choose to take advantage of opportunity (the “system”) or not.

If you’d like to discuss generalities around home support, peer support, a bigger outlook than driving a forklift et cetera across socio-economic divides, you’d have a conversation on your hands; one without much disagreement most likely, but there is not a malicious “system” holding kids back. This is a poor excuse for failure based on a lack of personal responsibility.

Prove to me, objectively, that I am wrong. Once again you are making wild accusations and the burden of proof is on you.

Show me these malicious curriculums brainwashing kids in to failure.

[/quote]
Your argument is immature and childlike. Children argue without using historical facts or personal experience. You obviously have a Zimmerman-like perception of yourself when it comes to debating but really should recognize when you are out of your depth. You don’t know how silly it looks when a white man tries interpreting the black experience to a black person.

My facts are based on what I saw and did. If the curriculum is the same does it mean it is being taught the same across the board? No, it doesn’t necessarily follow that it is. It doesn’t mean that schools pass kids when they shouldn’t. It doesn’t mean that standards of behavior are the same across the board. People in the student teaching phase were told to not say anything to kids when they swore because it was acceptable in their culture. That is preparing them for a real job in the real world, isn’t it?

I never gave homework. Why? Because kids wouldn’t do it. Why? Because other teachers didn’t give it so a precedent, a standard, was set. The excuse was that they wouldn’t do the homework anyway. Well, if you expect little, you get little.

My first day in one class I asked where their books were. They said they were locked in the closet. I asked how they studied at home. They said they didn’t bring the books home, so they didn’t study. The reason: if a student destroyed or lost a book, something that happens even in good schools, the teacher had to pay for it. So teachers responded accordingly. The reasoning was that since the kids were poor they wouldn’t be able to pay for the book, or they just wouldn’t pay regardless, so why hold them, or their parents, accountable. Again, setting expectations low.

I passed kids simply because they were well-behaved and good, not because they actually deserved the grade but I was told to grade generously. Why? Because it isn’t “fair” or “right” that a good kid fail and possibly get held back. Also, it increases the chances of dropping out which affects those pesky stats the admin cares so much about.

Standards of behavior? when I was in school if you to,d a teacher to F off you were suspended. There was zero tolerance. Where I worked if a student was sent to the office for something like that the vice principal would try and talk the teacher out of pushing for suspension. The result? A kid is back in class, he looks untouchable, and the teacher loses respect and has his authority diminished. One kid threatened a female teacher. She wanted him arrested but the VP was trying to talk her out of it. Why? It doesn’t look good for the school.

The teachers constantly complained about all of the enabling going on but for some reason, when it comes to educating, the teachers’ opinions on the matter are not considered. you have a culture being created that breeds lack of civility, respect, self-control, accountability, etc., combined with low standards and expectations for learning that creates an uneducated class that is doomed to stay on the welfare and criminal cycle.

So we have what you think is going on vs what I know is going on. Come back when you actually KNOW something. Try learning something about social promotion.

Oh, and those standardized tests they give. I could tell you what a sham that is. It’s not like there are independent proctors present. I was even present when some were being graded. I never knew multiple choice meant multiple answers were correct.

[/quote]
Historical facts or personal experience? Bullshit. You, the person making wild accusations, are unable to show me where the evil “system” curriculum is “holding kids back” because you can’t, it’s not true; completely unfactual.

I have discussed how the system is assissting students, plain as the sky is blue.

Personal opinion can certainly provide insight when backed by fact but the childish argument would actually be one based on personal opinions, because you know, personal opinions are never biased.

Show me factually where an organized educational system is intentionally fucking kids over.

While I’m sure you believe your opinions are God’s honest truth and are infallable sources of information, your conjecture, the only basis for any argument you’ve ever had in any of the three threads, is still bullshit. Long winded bullshit.[/quote]
I didn’t give opinions. I related facts. Try and discern the difference as it will help your undeveloped debating skills. [/quote]
No, you gave your opinion as to why you think teachers didn’t give homework or basically do their jobs. Substantiate your “facts” please. Grapevine rumors will not stand as substantiation either Mr. Awesome Debator.

It sounds to me like you are just a shitty teacher. The Title One teachers I know give homework, assign books, design labs and prepare students for tests, participate in parent/faculty nights, take calls from concerned parents et cetera, all supported by the “system”.

Unfortunately you short changed the capable, caring students by letting the shit bags shade your whole perception and jumped on the bandwagon with some other shitty teachers by the sound of your post.

Bad employees are every where but it is a shame they show up in schools.

A “system” didn’t screw kids, you did. Books, assignments et cetera were available yet you chose to withhold them from hungry students AND let the unmotivated students hold poor perceptions of work rather than challenging them as a teacher should.

YOU did not utilize tools available. YOU short changed kids. Don’t blame a system when YOU refused to utilize the toolbox you were given. You should be jailed for negligence and for fraudulently wasting tax money; you were not being a teacher as defined and supported by “the system” and are not an accurate representation of the “system”.[/quote]
You obviously don’t comprehend well. I entered into a system that “worked” a certain way long before I got there. Change doesn’t happen from the bottom up in education but from the top (the board of ed, administrators, politicians)down. Toolbox I was given? I wasn’t even given a curriculum to try and follow. And I did a better job than the person I replaced who, instead of teaching kids how to speak Spanish, was teaching them how to salsa. I am speaking literally mind you. You seem to not know the difference between policy, which I had no control over, and whim.

I can see why you are considered a douchebag as you say I withheld books when I clearly said that the books were withheld BEFORE I got there. You just are not as clever or intelligent as you think. You obviously know very little about how the world works and reason like a teenager. Why don’t you tell me what it was like for me to live in the inner city since you are the expert on other people’s experience. [/quote]
You are full of shit. Come back with substantiated fact.

I know “ghetto” school teachers who have very different stories than your alleged experience.

All you are doing is suggesting I take your word for the end all, be all truth. Not happening. You were a shitty teacher passing the buck.

Your opinion means shit. Come back with substantiated fact if you want to continue. Until then, you are the douche with a jaded world view screaming from the worlds smallest soapbox.

694

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
In all due respect, there are so many versions of the 911 tapes it might as well be chopped and screwed at this point.

My feelings that it was racial profiling had nothing to do with any of the news stations or this “version” of the 911 tapes. I moved to California recently and haven’t had access to a TV. I felt it was racial profiling because he was a kid walking home in the rain and just because he happpened to be black was assumed criminal in Zimmerman’s mind and being up to no good. DID HE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE SUPICOUS??? MAYBE. Because of the recent crime in the area…but you still have NO IDEA who/what/where/why with this individual. Call the cops.

“These Assholes ALWAYS GET AWAY…” how is that not profiling? Already calling someone a criminal and thinking of them as such when you have NO IDEA who they are? But you know he could’ve just called the police and have them sort it out…but no…

Had to be fucking Captain Kirk take matters into my own hands type of guy. So he got “attacked” (in his words) set his phaser to kill and the rest is history.[/quote]

Agreed. My decision of racial profiling HAD NOTHING AT ALL to do with what he said on a tape as far as calling him “black” (how is that an insult?). I don’t even watch tv so my only knowledge of this case is what I’ve seen on this board and in some articles.

His past actions in that community tell us he was looking for black people he thought didn’t belong.

695

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
BTW the version of the 911 tape I heard was a full version that had the operater asking the ethinicity of Zimmerman’s “suspect” so in my opinion nothing has changed…except that the media is on a forever revolving spin cycle…wheeling and dealing things in their favor.[/quote]

Agree again. I even mentioned my focus was on him being called a drug user and profiled as a criminal FOR WALKING. There was no other reason to assume he was a criminal unless through profiling.

I am not surprised that this news station’s screw up will be treated like it was the reason people saw racial bias when I seriously doubt that was the defining piece in anyone’s attempt to call this like they see it.

This kid was determined to be a criminal when nothing was known about him but the fact that he had two legs and dark skin.

696

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That’s why I quit watching most news programs. Most on Fox literally seem to be telling viewers what to think instead of presenting news. The rest just seem to lie too much on top of it.

I feel sorry for people who won’t acknowledge they are being manipulated if they cater to one side as if is the one truth.[/quote]
Uh, hello… paging Professor X…[/quote]

I’m right here. My opinion wasn’t shaped by a news station since I don’t even watch the news.

697

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

“These Assholes ALWAYS GET AWAY…” how is that not profiling? Already calling someone a criminal and thinking of them as such when you have NO IDEA who they are? But you know he could’ve just called the police and have them sort it out…but no…

[/quote]

How do you get RACIAL profiling out of that? Where is race mentioned here? How does “Assholes” pertain to a specific race? Did he say “These black assholes…” ? I just don’t see the proof here. A hunch isn’t good enough for me.

698

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

“These Assholes ALWAYS GET AWAY…” how is that not profiling? Already calling someone a criminal and thinking of them as such when you have NO IDEA who they are? But you know he could’ve just called the police and have them sort it out…but no…

[/quote]

How do you get RACIAL profiling out of that? Where is race mentioned here? How does “Assholes” pertain to a specific race? Did he say “These black assholes…” ? I just don’t see the proof here. A hunch isn’t good enough for me.[/quote]

Deep Sigh because he was suspected to be a criminal in Zimmerman’s mind with him ALREADY KNOWING certain break-ins in the community have been done by some black individuals.

He saw him, discovered he was black and lumped him in with the other law breakers in the area. THEN proceeded to show those true colors by saying “These assholes always get away” What and who else would he be refering to??? By saying these assholes always get away? Is he Elmer Fud talking about wascally wabbits? No. He’s refering to Tray being a criminal and continued to hunt him as such.

Once more is released we’ll know more but how is calling someone an asshole who is going to “Get Away” not profiling? If it’s not profiling what would he be getting away with??? The words, the phrases, the connotations are all NEGATIVE…spelling Tray out to be a criminal up to no good. Again, how can you assume he is such if you HAVE NO CLUE about the who/what/where/why’s when he’s not doing anything visibly unlawful.

699

AGAIN, the break in’s in that area had been “supposedly” done by all black folk. With this already in his mind he assumed Tray to be up to no good. Why is everyone making this out to be all in our immaginations???

700

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
BTW the version of the 911 tape I heard was a full version that had the operater asking the ethinicity of Zimmerman’s “suspect” so in my opinion nothing has changed…except that the media is on a forever revolving spin cycle…wheeling and dealing things in their favor.[/quote]

Agree again. I even mentioned my focus was on him being called a drug user and profiled as a criminal FOR WALKING. There was no other reason to assume he was a criminal unless through profiling.

I am not surprised that this news station’s screw up will be treated like it was the reason people saw racial bias when I seriously doubt that was the defining piece in anyone’s attempt to call this like they see it.

This kid was determined to be a criminal when nothing was known about him but the fact that he had two legs and dark skin.[/quote]

Reposted for emphasis.