Black Teen Shot 2

Off Topic
561

IMHO, the amount of people shouting hate crime is disturbing. visit europe to see how different nationalities can get along with half the drama. its an entirely different social context than here.

Whats funny is the difference is made by the people who feel like they are being “discriminated against” because of their color. in other words, the people who shout “hate crime!” are usually the ones who are the most racist, eager to jump the race card.

white people shoot mexicans shoot black people shoot indians every day. google turned up five multi-race murders since this story has been out, including one of another student shot, but the other way around.

Sometimes, its only becomes race-related because YOU make it race related.

562

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Not only that…THIS IS A GATED COMMUNITY. Even if he walks back to the car, the kid is still trapped by a man he KNOWS was chasing him…and he may have even known about the gun at that time.

I just don’t see how walking back to the car means “safety” for the kid when the kid still had to make it home and he was trapped inside.[/quote]

His father’s fiancee lives in that gated community. Trayvon died about 200 feet from her house.

If you see someone who was chasing you walking back to their car, and you are a young athlete, it makes no sense to NOT sprint that 200 feet and call the cops from your house… unless you want to physically escalate the situation. Which would make you the aggressor.[/quote]

Also…once again, BULLETS ARE FASTER THAN YOU…so if that gun was known before hand, it makes sense.

563

[quote]L.S. wrote:
IMHO, the amount of people shouting hate crime is disturbing. visit europe to see how different nationalities can get along with half the drama. its an entirely different social context than here.

Whats funny is the difference is made by the people who feel like they are being “discriminated against” because of their color. in other words, the people who shout “hate crime!” are usually the ones who are the most racist, eager to jump the race card.

white people shoot mexicans shoot black people shoot indians every day. google turned up five multi-race murders since this story has been out, including one of another student shot, but the other way around.

Sometimes, its only becomes race-related because YOU make it race related. [/quote]

What is funny to me is literally writing off what people are saying like it doesn’t matter…despite many of the black posters here being well educated and respectable enough to be taken seriously about some things.

I don’t think this was a “hate crime”. I think Zimmerman is guilty of the same shit I just wrote about in this thread…RACIAL PROFILING with no other distinctive guidelines but what color someone is.

That act is “racist”. It does not mean Zimmerman needs to call himself a “racist” for that to be the case.

How is “racial profiling” in Europe by cops?

564

dude, its a concealed carry permit. I have one. your gun doesn’t “accidentally slip” and get shown. to assume the kid attacked the guy because possibly he saw the gun and possibly thought he was going to get shot and possibly was blocked off from his house is still not likely.

a guy shows up with a gun and acts hostile i’m sure as hell not going to jump the dude. that would be like walking up to a barking dog and jumping over the fence to smack it in the face with a newspaper.

565

[quote]L.S. wrote:
dude, its a concealed carry permit. I have one. your gun doesn’t “accidentally slip” and get shown. to assume the kid attacked the guy because possibly he saw the gun and possibly thought he was going to get shot and possibly was blocked off from his house is still not likely. a guy shows up with a gun and acts hostile i’m sure as hell not going to jump the dude. that would be like walking up to a barking dog and jumping over the fence to smack it in the face with a newspaper.
[/quote]

Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”

566

[quote]L.S. wrote:
dude, its a concealed carry permit. I have one. your gun doesn’t “accidentally slip” and get shown. to assume the kid attacked the guy because possibly he saw the gun and possibly thought he was going to get shot and possibly was blocked off from his house is still not likely. a guy shows up with a gun and acts hostile i’m sure as hell not going to jump the dude. that would be like walking up to a barking dog and jumping over the fence to smack it in the face with a newspaper.
[/quote]

How is it not likely? First, Zimmerman’s mental state is UNLIKELY. Who the hell calls the cops that much but a cop wannabe? From Trayvon’s girl, they didn’t even talk until right before the scuffle when Tray asked why he was being followed and Zimmermans asked “what are you doing here”.

WHERE WAS THE GUN?

This guy was not a cop so unless you are claiming he was wearing a sports coat and hiding it…it could also be very likely that he had the weapon drawn already.

Why would you think a man this irrational would NOT do that?

he ran after a kid in the rain for no reason other than “hood and skin color”…but he was rational???

567

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
The tricky part is it can be reasonably argued that both were.
[/quote]

It’s only “tricky.” If you don’t understand the law. It is irrelevant whether the Black guy’s acts were legally justified or not. All that matters is if the Hispanic guy’s actions are legally justified.[/quote]

Not the way I had it explained to me by a cop. If you hold a hair brush where the handle looks like a gun, the person who feels threatened is legally threatened whether or not the person is actually at risk. If Martin felt threatened, then following that logic, Zimmerman started the whole mess and his claim of self-defense does not hold water. I think it is this point that is being overlooked. It is not just who punched who first. It is who threatened first. Again, this is how a cop explained it to me.[/quote]

That was why I mentioned if the gun was visible. People seem uninterested in this important fact. All of the actions committed on both parts make sense if that gun was seen as a threat in itself first.
[/quote]

It does not even have to get that far. It has been argued that you can legally follow a pedestrian while in a car. Try following some kids home from school that way, or female college students around campus, and see how long it takes for the cops to show up. I think that act falls under menacing and the kids, college students, etc. would not be considerd crazy for feeling threatened. Though less threatened than if you get out of the cat and start going after them when they try to run away.

Following someone in your car can easily be conceived as threatening. Getting out of the car to pursue someone ups the threat meter. Having a visible gun UPS it even more.

I do not understand how this is not seen as threatening behavior.[/quote]
Cops “showing up” or even making an arrest is not equal to guilt of a crime.

According to actual known evidence, Trayvon is the criminal. Not much else can be argued.

568

[quote]Professor X wrote:

What is funny to me is literally writing off what people are saying like it doesn’t matter…despite many of the black posters here being well educated and respectable enough to be taken seriously about some things.
[/quote]

This is the kind of shit I’m talking about. I dont have a scorecard next to my computer telling me what black poster said what or what white dude said what. I don’t care what color you are. YOU brought up the agenda of color here.

as far as racial profiling, it comes down to realizing there IS a difference between cultures of color, accepting it as you would different accents or traditions from different hometowns and letting it go. anything beyond that is either denying that there are differences, which is racist in itself, or being so sensitive to the topic that you create further problems, both in your life and down the road for others- whether it be what you teach your kids or how you influence your friends. I see a lot of the latter in america.

sometimes, the black dude shooting the white dude had nothing to do with color. and, vice versa.

the dude had a concealed permit, was the captain of the neighborhood watch, and had applications in to be a cop, as well as having trained time with the local police. He’s a wannabe, overzealous cop. He’s not some crazy fuck running around with a weapon drawn. thats a ridiculous assumption especailly if you know anything about escalation of force models used in law enforcement.

after reading about how overzealous zimmerman is, do you really think if it was a white strange teenager strolling through in the community at night in a hoodie he would have just drove by?

If you admit the interaction could’ve happened just as easily with any other nationality, then I can continue this conversation with you and get to the real topic, which is how did things go down and should zimmerman be in jail. if you can’t, then I think you’re racist.

569

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Not only that…THIS IS A GATED COMMUNITY. Even if he walks back to the car, the kid is still trapped by a man he KNOWS was chasing him…and he may have even known about the gun at that time.

I just don’t see how walking back to the car means “safety” for the kid when the kid still had to make it home and he was trapped inside.[/quote]

His father’s fiancee lives in that gated community. Trayvon died about 200 feet from her house.

If you see someone who was chasing you walking back to their car, and you are a young athlete, it makes no sense to NOT sprint that 200 feet and call the cops from your house… unless you want to physically escalate the situation. Which would make you the aggressor.[/quote]

Also…once again, BULLETS ARE FASTER THAN YOU…so if that gun was known before hand, it makes sense.[/quote]

In what fucking world is it a smarter move to attack the armed man who you had managed to shake when your house is literally 30 seconds away?

What video games have you been playing?

570

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
‘‘Hispanic’’ is not a race. Zimmerman is white.[/quote]
Only in America can a Hispanic shoot an African American and white people get blamed.

It’s all Whitey’s fault!

571

[quote]L.S. wrote:
IMHO, the amount of people shouting hate crime is disturbing. visit europe to see how different nationalities can get along with half the drama. its an entirely different social context than here. [/quote]

Fucking Wrong.

I visit Europe all the time. I spent over ten years of my life there. I have relatives there and friends of different nationalities and minorities, from Africans, Asians to Arabs. No. It is not all rosy between races as you assume. So stop talking bullshit. Tell me, what do you think of race discrimination in France, Germany or Spain? Remember the Paris riots? Or, what about racial tension between Pakistani and British people in northern parts of England?

[quote]L.S. wrote:
Whats funny is the difference is made by the people who feel like they are being “discriminated against” because of their color. in other words, the people who shout “hate crime!” are usually the ones who are the most racist, eager to jump the race card. [/quote]

Ah well, you’ve probably never been discriminated against in your life. So what do you know, eh? You’re white. Right?

‘‘Race card’’, ‘‘Chip on the shoulder’’. Anything new to add? Pointing out racism when it is clearly there is now sign of being a racist?? LOL. ‘‘Reverse Racism’’, my fucking ass. Zimmerman is a racist asshole. There are facts out there that prove it and are obviously ignored. But blacks should not mention it because that’d make some people uncomfortable.

[quote]L.S. wrote:
white people shoot mexicans shoot black people shoot indians every day. google turned up five multi-race murders since this story has been out, including one of another student shot, but the other way around.

Sometimes, its only becomes race-related because YOU make it race related. [/quote]

It was race- related from the start.

Do you remember the first thread’s title? Remember the media constantly bringing up Zimmercunt’s race when the story came out? Did you fucking blame the media for mentioning it? Did you blame the blacks too?

Did you ignore Zimms calling the boy a fucking goon? Did you ignore his racial profiling? Oh yeah, Zimmerman calling the cops and reporting Trayvon Martin, following him around when instructed not to HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

572

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.

573

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

Do we know were Martin was when Zimmerman said he headed back to the car? While going to his car may seem like retreating but if the act.moves him towards Martin then it would appear like pursuit whether it was intended to or not. Just because Zimmerman said he was done does not.mean Martin felt any less threatened or that Zimmermans action appear like less of a threat.[/quote]

We do not know exactly where Trayvon was in relation to Zimmerman’s car, but thinking about what happened paints a fairly reasonable picture of what likely happened. Here is what has been reported:

  1. Zimmerman was in his car following Tryavon.
  2. Zimmerman calls 911 and reports a “suspicious character” and says he has started fleeing. Trayvon’s girlfriend corroborates this in her report about the phone call.
  3. At some point, Zimmerman leaves his car and chases Trayvon on foot. I don’t know if it was during the police call or after, I have’t seen any report either way, but the kid clearly knew that he was being followed and was moving away from Zimmerman and his vehicle at some point. He was on a straight street, so I can’t think of a plausible scenario of a chase that puts moving towards Zimmerman and his car as a likely chase scenario.

The only two likely scenario’s that I can think of are:

  1. Zimmerman gets out of his car near Trayvon and Trayvon immediately reacts to the perceived threat represented by Zimmerman and attacks. This I would consider a reasonable action on Trayvon’s part since if Trayvon was close to Zimmerman’s car and Zimmerman only wanted to talk to him, all Zimmerman would have had to do was roll down his window, so it would be reasonable to assume that by getting out of his car that Zimmerman meant some kind of harm to the kid. Unfortunately, both the girlfriend’s account of her phone call and Zimmerman’s report clearly establish that Trayvon was moving away from Zimmerman at a fairly rapid pace.

  2. Trayvon approached Zimmerman while he was on his way back to his car after the chase was over. I have already posted my thoughts on this scenario, so just go back an d look at my previous few posts.

Scenario 2 is supported both by the evidence that has been reported and Zimmerman’s story. It is quite possible that Zimmerman is lying and fudging facts to make his case, in fact I would bet on it, but it will be up to the prosecution, if there is a trial, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is lying and prove an alternate scenario in which Zimmerman did not act in self defense. Due to the lack of eyewitnesses during this critical part of events, I just don’t see that happening. There have been more than a few alternate scenarios suggested, and they range from likely to very unlikely, but without any real evidence, all they amount to is conjecture and will not lead to a conviction.

574

I’m not quite sure what LS is talking about w/ regards to races getting along in Europe. Could argue it’s better than the States, but there are certainly problems.

Watch a freaking soccer game and you’ll hear racist taunts against blacks. Or even sometimes in Ice hockey too.

A while back I was talking to two arab girls I met at a club who were international students from France. They told me there is considerable racial tension in France and many minorities do not ever feel they are even part of the country, simply outsiders. Even if they have lived their whole lives in the country.

/end hijack

575

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]L.S. wrote:
IMHO, the amount of people shouting hate crime is disturbing. visit europe to see how different nationalities can get along with half the drama. its an entirely different social context than here. [/quote]

Fucking Wrong.

I visit Europe all the time. I spent over ten years of my life there. I have relatives there and friends of different nationalities and minorities, from Africans, Asians to Arabs. No. It is not all rosy between races as you assume. So stop talking bullshit. Tell me, what do you think of race discrimination in France, Germany or Spain? Remember the Paris riots? Or, what about racial tension between Pakistani and British people in northern parts of England?

[quote]L.S. wrote:
Whats funny is the difference is made by the people who feel like they are being “discriminated against” because of their color. in other words, the people who shout “hate crime!” are usually the ones who are the most racist, eager to jump the race card. [/quote]

Ah well, you’ve probably never been discriminated against in his life. So what do you know, eh? You’re white. Right?

‘‘Race card’’, ‘‘Chip on the shoulder’’. Anything new to add? Pointing out racism when it is clearly there is now sign of being a racist?? LOL. ‘‘Reverse Racism’’, my fucking ass. Zimmerman is a racist asshole. There are facts out there that prove it and are obviously ignored. But blacks should not mention it because that’d make some people uncomfortable.

[quote]L.S. wrote:
white people shoot mexicans shoot black people shoot indians every day. google turned up five multi-race murders since this story has been out, including one of another student shot, but the other way around.

Sometimes, its only becomes race-related because YOU make it race related. [/quote]

It was race- related from the start.

Do you remember the first thread’s title? Remember the media constantly bringing up Zimmercunt’s race when the story came out? Did you fucking blame the media for mentioning it? Did you blame the blacks too?

Did you ignore Zimms calling the boy a fucking goon? Did you ignore his racial profiling? Oh yeah, Zimmerman calling the cops and reporting Trayvon Martin, following him around when instructed not to HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE IN THE FIRST PLACE.[/quote]

I have seen far better examples in europe, though that is just MHO. and I totally agree with you about the media making it a race issue. welcome to the media.

I am not white. I have been discriminated against. also, I think you’re contributing to the problem by making the entire ordeal about a white guy shooting a black dude, instead of a overzealous neighborhood watchmen starting a confrontation with a kid and a gun coming into play.

your emotions play though your post and you are VERY angry and accusing. had I been white, and made the accusations you are making toward me right now, I would be labeled as racist. I feel discriminated against by YOU in this post because of your attitude.

Also, I think you’re racist.

I won’t continue this conversation with you because I will not support this kind of mentality.

Have a nice day

576

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?

577

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]

A lot more realistic if the attacker doesn’t know his victim has a gun.

578

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have it, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.

579

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I cringe everytime I read “Zimmercunt” or “Zimmmerfuck”…there’s no better pun you could come up with? [/quote]

Lol.

Meh, it’s quite understandable. The people who will mostly cringe are Zimmertwat’s supporters.

I won’t carry a torch for a remorseless kid killer.

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
…that guy was… untrained fuck [/quote]

Prove it.

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
…who would have lost in a fight to Trayvon 10 times out of 10. [/quote]

Prove it.[/quote]

I can vouch that GZ is one of the least athletically gifted people I have ever encountered in my life. Last time I saw him he was tiny and weak. Since then he’s gotten really fat.

I don’t see any GZ supporters out there. I only see people who are waiting for the facts to bear out and those who have already tried and convicted him.

580

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I just know I wouldn’t have faith that the pasty unathletic guy with the gun would be manly enough to keep it tucked away and perfectly conceiled until the absolute last minute. I would think that line of thought is bullshit and that it is way more likely the kid knew about the gun BEFORE it was fired. I also know no one tries to unarm someone with a gun pointed at them so even if Zimmerman turned around or lost track of Trayvon, if the kid thought his life was at risk, he should just get risk getting shot instead of ever fighting back?

Honestly, if the law is designed to overlook all of this simply because one party is dead, then maybe some laws need changing…immediately.

One more point…unless Zimmerman attacking an officer is now relevant, the act of trying to dig up all dirt on Trayvon unrelated to this is a tad over the top. [/quote]
Your whole first paragraph is a nice piece of fiction unsupported by any evidence.

If the law ever rules in favor of fairy tales, I hope we have a revolution.

I agree though, the character assassinations are some bullshit. It really sucks Team Martin even opened that door.