Black Teen Shot 2

Off Topic
261

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I mean WTF… how many men here WOULDN’T take out a dude following and harassing you?
[/quote]

Sure. And that would potentially be a defense the Black guy would have had, if the fight turned out differently.

Here, however, legally it’s about the mental state of the Hispanic guy (the “mens rea”) and whether he provoked the black guy into the final fight.[/quote]

He chased him…at night…in the rain…carrying a gun.

What the fuck else do you need to do to provoke someone to defend themselves? Actually shoot them?[/quote]

Is there any evidence that the Black guy knew the Hispanic guy had a gun?

A chase may or may not be “provocation” to defeat the Hispanic’s self-defense claim. Provocation, however, is very narrowly legally defined, and means “assualt without legal right” or the like.

I am not sure if a “chase” counts.

I don’t know if being neighborhood watch gives “legal right.”

I defer to a Florida lawyer on those issues.

(Now, be careful — don’t commingle the Black guy’s legal right to defend himself because some nut was chasing him with whether the Hispanic guy no longer has a self-defense right. Legally, different things.)

[/quote]

Look, this Zimmerman guy was not a police officer. Yes, I do question where the hell the gun was. This pasty fat dude who could get whipped by a high school athlete was carrying a gun and running yet the gun could not be seen until he pulled it out the very last instance?

Does that really make sense to you?

262

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay… mental states taken into account -

We have a kid returning from the store with candy and tea, heading home to watch the game with his dad.

We also have an irate townwatch captain who, in his experience, is itching to stop the recent criminal activity in his neighborhood. His 911 call informs him not to follow the suspect.

Which person would YOU think was the aggressor?[/quote]

Zimmercunt!!!

263

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay… mental states taken into account -

We have a kid returning from the store with candy and tea, heading home to watch the game with his dad.

We also have an irate townwatch captain who, in his experience, is itching to stop the recent criminal activity in his neighborhood. His 911 call informs him not to follow the suspect.

Which person would YOU think was the aggressor?[/quote]

You are very possibly correct, but again, it’s not the legal question.

It’s “did the Hispanic guy “unlawfully provoke”) (just looked it up) the assault where he got the beating,” and then ended it.

Again, I don’t know what legal rights being a neighborhood watch guy is granted (or even thinks he had).

And there is the huge issue of “is this two confrontations or one?” If the story of going-back-to-truck-and-getting-cold-cocked is true, the Hispanic guy walks.

264

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I mean WTF… how many men here WOULDN’T take out a dude following and harassing you?
[/quote]

Sure. And that would potentially be a defense the Black guy would have had, if the fight turned out differently.

Here, however, legally it’s about the mental state of the Hispanic guy (the “mens rea”) and whether he provoked the black guy into the final fight.[/quote]

He chased him…at night…in the rain…carrying a gun.

What the fuck else do you need to do to provoke someone to defend themselves? Actually shoot them?[/quote]

Is there any evidence that the Black guy knew the Hispanic guy had a gun?

A chase may or may not be “provocation” to defeat the Hispanic’s self-defense claim. Provocation, however, is very narrowly legally defined, and means “assualt without legal right” or the like.

I am not sure if a “chase” counts.

I don’t know if being neighborhood watch gives “legal right.”

I defer to a Florida lawyer on those issues.

(Now, be careful — don’t commingle the Black guy’s legal right to defend himself because some nut was chasing him with whether the Hispanic guy no longer has a self-defense right. Legally, different things.)

[/quote]

Look, this Zimmerman guy was not a police officer. Yes, I do question where the hell the gun was. This pasty fat dude who could get whipped by a high school athlete was carrying a gun and running yet the gun could not be seen until he pulled it out the very last instance?

Does that really make sense to you?[/quote]
Shoulder strap holster, the most common concealed carry carrying device. It makes perfect sense.

265

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why are you so quick to accept the word of everyone else except her?

[/quote]

Exactly. Zimmerman has the luxury of his statements not being contested by Trayvon.
He can say anything he wants to clear his ass.
[/quote]

x3

266

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, this Zimmerman guy was not a police officer. Yes, I do question where the hell the gun was. [/quote]

I do, too. What evidence is there that it was visible?

[quote]
This pasty fat dude who could get whipped by a high school athlete was carrying a gun and running yet the gun could not be seen until he pulled it out the very last instance? Does that really make sense to you?[/quote]

Sure. I carry pistols almost all the time where I am legally able. I shoot regularly and am highly trained. And, yes, I have legally killed people (with a rifle, mind you, in a war zone).

You’d never know I have a pistol until you hear the crack, or actually about 8, as I was trained to empty my weapon into my attacker.

267

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay… mental states taken into account -

We have a kid returning from the store with candy and tea, heading home to watch the game with his dad.

We also have an irate townwatch captain who, in his experience, is itching to stop the recent criminal activity in his neighborhood. His 911 call informs him not to follow the suspect.

Which person would YOU think was the aggressor?[/quote]
Who ever initiated a physical attack.

268

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Shoulder strap holster, the most common concealed carry carrying device. It makes perfect sense.[/quote]

Small frame pistol (say, like a little GLOCK .40, or a .38 or any .380) in the jacket pocket, never be seen. Easier to get to, as well.

269

The whole thing is tragic and should be investigated fully.

That being said, I gotta laugh at the fools who think this is 100% about race yet insist on calling Zimmerman white.

270

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]FuriousFists wrote:
This means if i wanted to kill someone intentionally, all i had to do was verbally aggravate them to the point of attacking me (Which would not be very hard) assaulting me badly enough, then shoot them dead. As long as it looked like i was the victim, none of the eye witnesses heard what i was saying or how the disagreement began, and i had no known motive/there was no recorded instances where i had come into contact with that individual in the past, i get a free kill.

I dont think the problem of people being assaulted or killed can be solved by allowing citizens to carry weapons in the name of self defence. imo firing a weapon in a fist fight turns defence into complete one sided offence.

unless that person’s life was in some kind of potential threat (a stalker for example) , or it came with some level of professional training, and the person learning and demonstrating the ability to make rational decisions while under pressure and/or physical trauma during an altercation.

and i suspect not everyone who is licensed to carry a firearm is even cut out for that level of rationale and responsibility. actually now of course we all know this.

it seems compeltely illogical to me. if this guy had a can of pepper spray, CS Gas or some other non lethal weapon it would have made alot more sense.

I would rather be shot dead defending myself with my bare hands, then take a beating and have to resort to shooting my opponent. some people need to grow a pair. and this guy definitely needs to go to jail, but the law is defending injustice.

imo[/quote]

The law could certainly be abused by a criminal mind like any other.

Meanwhile, it has saved innocent victims from losing their wallets to keeping their lives, avoiding rape et cetera and certainly has its merit.

In this country, attacking a person is illegal. Baiting an attack so that you can kill a guy you don’t like would be sleazy, but an attack is an attack legally.

To each their own opinion but we do have self defense rights I personally support and that’s how it is. [/quote]

criminal mind? i heard about this law and in thirty seconds i had already figured out how to abuse it and legally kill some one.

in this country, attacking a person is illegal too. except you’re not allowed to shoot him because you cant defend yourself.
this law would make more sense if it only applied to vunerable citizens.

isnt that the job of LAW ENFORCEMENT? (protecting people from muggings, ect) you know the guys who are trained for years to enforce the law and have experience in these situations. and why not something non lethal like a tazer gun, CS gas, pepper spray ect. why do you need a live firearm? are you living in a warzone?

Then your self defense ‘rights’ are cowardly and dishonorable. keep a gun in your house, mind your own business in the street imo. if you think you may be mugged or attacked one day, learn to defend yourself and diffuse the situation like a rational responsible man, instead of deciding to play God and take a life.

do you people still have the ability to think for yourselves? do you understand what honor and morality is? do you have the right to treat cases individually instead of just saying because he was beaten up he had a right to end a young seventeen year old life? what if it was your son? would you all still be singing the same tune and defending zimmerman and your precious gun laws?

this is a disgrace.

271

Stop using races to describe the people involved. Its like a bunch of white cops and black guy (who was also high out of his mind, resisting arrest, making violent gestures and death threats) oh its a black dude who killed his white wife. cut the color out and look at this as people of the same species and planet.

in the link above, its either the best law move ever or a true story.

Zimmerman defended by his “black” friend about what happened. Now there is a bunch of stuff about him not pulling the trigger, not being aggresive and so forth, there may have been a witness. All speculation, potentially all bullshit, still interesting.

272

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, this Zimmerman guy was not a police officer. Yes, I do question where the hell the gun was. [/quote]

I do, too. What evidence is there that it was visible?

Good for you. You sound military trained. I am too. Was Zimmerman ever in the military? He sounds like an overzealous jackass who misjudged nearly every situation he ever called in about. yet, for some reason, people think he acted “normal minded” here???

273

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay… mental states taken into account -

We have a kid returning from the store with candy and tea, heading home to watch the game with his dad.

We also have an irate townwatch captain who, in his experience, is itching to stop the recent criminal activity in his neighborhood. His 911 call informs him not to follow the suspect.

Which person would YOU think was the aggressor?[/quote]
Who ever initiated a physical attack.[/quote]

And would that initiation include being cornered by an irate man in my face questioning me why I’m in a particular place that I know I am well within my legal right to be there?

Any man who is up in my face like that WILL get his nose splattered across his face (or in my case, being short, an uppercut coming up like a fucking ground missile).

274

Facts:
Zimmerman made calling into 911 a favorite past time…for some relatively mundane reasons.

Zimmerman even thought someone driving down the street with loud music blasting was “checking out houses” because of the race of the guy driving.

Zimmerman CHASED Trayvon and questioned him as if he were a uniformed police officer. He wasn’t.

Trayvon apparently got the upper hand after the altercation started.

Zimmerman shot Trayvon.

How the hell does this sound like the kid was the aggressor?

275

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

Any man who is up in my face like that WILL get his nose splattered across his face (or in my case, being short, an uppercut coming up like a fucking ground missile).
[/quote]

Hahaha!!

276

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Trayvon was chased like an animal, cornered and harassed by a white fucker who thought he was Judge Dredd.

Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car and he didn’t. Zimmercunt was going for the kill.

Where are the ER reports that show Zimmercunt sustained a broken nose? Poor pussy. I’m supposed to feel sorry for that child murderer now?

Zimmercunt is a fat bastard, 240 pounds, and he couldn’t even take a punch from a slimmer kid that the only solution was to end the fight by shooting him dead.

Zimmercunt and the police used Stand your Ground and Self defence to cover his racist ass.

Zimmercunt has still not be arrested yet.

Zimmercunt WILL get away with this.

[/quote]

wow…told myself I was not going to post in here again…but this is some of the most hateful, non-factual bile I have read on this site.

Wow.[/quote]

Lol. Non factual?

Zimmercunt is still free. FACT.

Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car. Not to follow Trayvon Martin. FACT

Zimmercunt thought he was Judge Dredd and decided to follow Trayvon Martin anyway. FACT

Trayvon’s friend has said he was pursued by a strange man during their phone conversation. FACT.

Zimmercunt HUNTED Trayvon Martin. FACT.

It is said the murderer has been bruised. I have asked for proof. ER records amongst them…

Zimmercunt is 240 pounds. Trayvor weighed less than that. FACT

‘‘According’’ to some witness, the scum was getting his ass handed over to him by Trayvon. FACT OR FICTION?

Zimmercunt was under Trayvon, ‘‘according’’ to some witness. He pulled his gun and shot him dead. Is this fact or fiction?

Zimemrcunt claimed self defence. The police has been covered his ass since day one. They were pressurised to release those tapes and do something about the murder. FACT.

Will Zimmercunt get away with murder? Probably so. The law, the witness reports, are on his side so far. Shit, there’re already some reports he got jumped on by Martin as he walked back to his truck.

How on earth what I’ve mostly listed in my ‘‘hateful’’ bile is non- factual? Non factual to the Zimmerman’s supporters surely. I don’t give a shit.

And Zimmerman is a cunt and I’d call him how I like. If that makes you cry like a baby, tough. He killed an innocent child and I should not pity him. I’m not fucking Jesus who forgives easily, especially when there isn’t any justice in the system.

And by the way, I’m glad I got you out of lurking. Now get back to it.
[/quote]

I’ve decided who you remind me of…Former District Attourny of Durham North Carolina, Mike Nifong (google it if you don’t know). You act exactly like he did. To the letter.

What you fail to realize…of maybe you do it on purpose…is you sound exactly like the crazy racist asshole you think Zimmerman is.

Your reverse racism is strong.

277

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zimmerman. . . sounds like an overzealous jackass who misjudged nearly every situation he ever called in about. yet, for some reason, people think he acted “normal minded” here???[/quote]

I agree with everything you said expect you saying “people think he acted ‘normal minded.’”

People are idiots all the time, sometimes tragically so. But that does not mean they are subject to criminal prosecution.

Again, legally, it comes down to “did the Hispanic guy unlawfully provoke” the ultimate fight.

I don’t know the answer to that question.

278

What I find interesting is that Zimmerman is half-white, half-hispanic and passes as white yet is (fully) Hispanic in these pages. Really, why not white? I find this interesting.

279

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zimmerman. . . sounds like an overzealous jackass who misjudged nearly every situation he ever called in about. yet, for some reason, people think he acted “normal minded” here???[/quote]

I agree with everything you said expect you saying “people think he acted ‘normal minded.’”

People are idiots all the time, sometimes tragically so. But that does not mean they are subject to criminal prosecution.

Again, legally, it comes down to “did the Hispanic guy unlawfully provoke” the ultimate fight.

I don’t know the answer to that question.
[/quote]

All I am saying is he has a very strong and visible (even RECORDED) history of “jumping the gun”…yet people think he showed restraint for the first time here???

That makes no logical sense.

What DOES make sense is that Zimmerman was absolutely convinced that Trayvon was a criminal and no doubt acted as such.

It does NOT make sense that a kid that we have found no evidence of any outburst or criminal history would suddenly ATTACK a grown man for no reason unless his life was at risk.

280

The police

-failed to interview Trayvons girlfriend who was on the phone with him when the altercation began

-failed to breathalyze Zimmercunt

-failed to send out a homicide detective…they sent a narcotics detective instead

-failed to go through Trayvon’s phone records and notify his family, they instead listed him as a John Doe and his dad had to hunt him down

-changed witnesses testimonies

-failed to carry out forensics on Zimmercunt’s clothes

-took Zimmercunt’s word and did not background check him

-repeatedly told fallacies and lies to the family

-withheld the 911 tapes until they were legally forced to release them

-the reported bloody nose and grass stained back wasn’t in the original police report

-Chief Lee told the media that Zimmerman did not know the race or Trayvon yet he clearly states TWICE in 911 calls that Trayvon is a black male

-police admitted to failing to recognize a racial slur mumbled by Zimmercunt in the 911 tapes nearly a month after the shooting