Black History Month

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]btm62 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Not all Africans in America were slaves. Generally the ones south of the Mason Dixon line were slaves and the ones in the north were free.

Africans in Africa were not all enslaved but some were held as slaves by Arabs and other Africans. It is still happening today over in parts of Africa.

All races have been held as slaves, usually by their own races.

The African slaves in America is probably the most egregious example of one race holding another in slavery.

It is a shameful part of our history.

As I understood, slavery, for the most part, was about whoever won the wars that were fought.

The Jews, and the blacks in America, are the two examples of a race being held simply because of their color or creed, and not because they lost a battle or war of some sort.

Although feudalism was a form of slavery, one could also say that the subjegation of Ireland was a type of slavery. The lines blur once you get out of the realm of “You will work my land for free”.

And Btm, there’s the things, they’re called “books” and some of them talk about this stuff that happened a rreeaallllyyy long time ago ( “history”). You might want to check them out, even though you might not be interested in things that happened a reeallllyy long time ago, because it kind of affects the present…just a little…

Yea, thanks. Maybe you could elaborate on what fucking point your trying to make other than to try and act like I’m stupid and uneducated. Which is hardly the case. Any time you want to go head to head in a history knowledge contest you just let me know. [/quote]

Sweet. Can we have a pushup contest after that?

122

pox,

professor X=pox.

Now, Please answer my question: How much do you read?

“It was a black or white issue.”

Nice. But, you knew I meant African-American versus Caucasian.

“Slavery as far as ownership of another human being like property was wrong. There are no gradients as far as that is concerned.”

Could not agree more.

“I think that history teachers and society in general do a terrible job discussing the slave ports on the coast of Africa. There the captured tribesman were sold to the European slavers. You tell me, pox, how much of the African slave trade would have occurred without the complicity of the Africans capturing other Africans?”

“Again, here you make statements as if someone else’s evil excuses the evil acts of others.”

No, I do not. However, I’ll bet you any amount of cash that most people don’t know how involved the Africans were in the slave trade. Ask around. Prove me right.

“There were EVIL AFRICANS. What does that have to do with EVIL AMERICANS?”

Again, I don’t know how much you read. I clearly said (post number one) both sides were culpable. Apparently, you can’t (or won’t read). Ok, I’ll rephrase: The European/U.S. in North America were guilty. The Africans in Africa were guilty. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Oh, there was a slavery market in Africa prior to the Europeans and it has continued UNTIL TODAY (see my article from yesterday)

The Africans are just as guilty.

(This would be a good time to agree with the last sentence/it’s the truth)

JeffR

"What does this have to do with slavery in AMERICA?’

Nearly everything. No African Slaves=no American African Slaves.

“Who here has written that they didn’t know that there were Africans involved in some of this? I am aware of it as I am sure most everyone else is.”

I think you are completely wrong. Ask anyone on the street who was responsible for slavery in America. Anyone want to bet me that 99.9% of the responses will be “the racist Americans or Europeans?”

“Were Africans the ones who decided that black Africans were not fully human?”

YES!!! They still do. See my article from yesterday. Look it up. Sudan/Mauritania.

"Were Africans the ones who took away the rights of black Americans in this country when it comes to voting or even getting paid equally?’

Sometimes. See black slave owners. However, it was majority white slave owners.

"I asked you a specific question before and you avoided it. One more time, are you bringing up this issue to decrease the fault of America?’

Ok, you don’t read.

"If not, then what does evil in Africa have to do directly with the evil that continued here even after slavery was “abolished”?’

Now you are changing the subject. Since you don’t read, I’m not going to waste time on your last paragraph.

JeffR

123

[quote]JeffR wrote:
I think you are completely wrong. Ask anyone on the street who was responsible for slavery in America. Anyone want to bet me that 99.9% of the responses will be “the racist Americans or Europeans?”[/quote]

They ARE responsible for slavery. They may have had help from Africans, but who was shipping them out of the country? WTF?

[quote]
“Were Africans the ones who decided that black Africans were not fully human?”

YES!!! They still do. See my article from yesterday. Look it up. Sudan/Mauritania.[/quote]

No, they were not with regards to AMERICA. You had American scientists conducting studies to prove how inferior blacks were. That is where the “black men have big dicks” comes from. they tried to relate larger sex organs to weaker mental states. I have read some of these and none of it was pretty. You had Americans deciding that black votes didn’t equal white votes. Why are you trying to deflect who is responsible?

[quote]
"Were Africans the ones who took away the rights of black Americans in this country when it comes to voting or even getting paid equally?’

Sometimes. See black slave owners. However, it was majority white slave owners.[/quote]

What? There were some black slave owners, however not one of them had an affect directly on national policies with regards to blacks in this country.

[quote]
"I asked you a specific question before and you avoided it. One more time, are you bringing up this issue to decrease the fault of America?’

Ok, you don’t read.[/quote]

…and you don’t answer the damn question.

That is not changing the subject. That IS the subject.

124

Jerffy is just trying to spread the propaganda of blame…

125

[quote]vroom wrote:
Jerffy is just trying to spread the propaganda of blame…[/quote]

Many are to blame. Not just white people as is often generalized.

I would rather focus on the great men that fought against slavery with words and force.

The Union Jack was the most feared sight of the slave traders because Britian actively opposed slavery.

I never see the Brits get any love for that.

While Lincoln certainly didn’t come into office with the intention of abolishing slavery tens of thousands of white and black men volunteered in the Union Army specifically to end the abomination of slavery in this country.

EDIT
Vroom, we look like twins.

126

I think this arguement is boiling down to “which is worse” when both are bad. I’t like asking “which is worse: the drug dealer, or the guy buying the drugs?”
There is no right or wrong answer. They are BOTH bad, and I don’t want EITHER of them in my neighborhood.

It makes no difference to me who the ROOT fault lies with. Bottom line is that it was an atrocity that should never happen in humanity and doesn’t need to be revisited. Thank God that it (slavery) isn’t practiced in our great country anymore.

Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

127

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.

128

[quote]vroom wrote:
Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.[/quote]

Also, when people quit pretending as if all issues are resolved and that issues of the past aren’t directly linked with issues of today.

129

[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.

Also, when people quit pretending as if all issues are resolved and that issues of the past aren’t directly linked with issues of today.[/quote]

“I love you ProfX, mmmm, mmmm”
“I love you too Vroom, mmmmm, mmmm”
“No, I love your more ProfX, mmmm, mmm”

Do you two kiss with your eyes open?

Or we can keep the fucking horse on life support so we can kick it forever.

Some of us choose to try and move on. (Yes, mindful that those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.)

130

I’m out of the loop on this, but I’d still like to talk about black Americans who’ve made such great contributions to our lives. Can we get back to that? The slavery debate, detailing a tragedy of unprecented and boundless horror, is interesting; but I’d still like to know, and honor those fine individuals.

Professor, being a black man, do you have more about someone who has influenced you, someone who inspired you to accomplish what you have? (This is meant in all sincerity – no insults or whatever intended.)

131

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’m out of the loop on this, but I’d still like to talk about black Americans who’ve made such great contributions to our lives. Can we get back to that? The slavery debate, detailing a tragedy of unprecented and boundless horror, is interesting; but I’d still like to know, and honor those fine individuals.

Professor, being a black man, do you have more about someone who has influenced you, someone who inspired you to accomplish what you have? (This is meant in all sincerity – no insults or whatever intended.)[/quote]

Dr. Benjamin S. Carson Sr., Director Of Pediatric Surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital. His teachers labeled him as a slow learner in school. They said he was unorganized and didn’t pay attention in class. He came and spoke to my class when I was in high school. After meeting him, I actually started studying for those exams in school.

[quote]Ben Carson (born September 18, 1951) is a noted American neurosurgeon. He is said to be one of the first and youngest in the nation at the age of 32 to become the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

In 1987 Carson came to media attention when he separated conjoined twins who were joined at the head and shared part of the same brain. In 2003, he was a member of the surgical team which worked to separate Ladan and Laleh Bijani. When asked why he had performed such risky surgery, he said that he had heard them say that they would rather die than stay conjoined. After having heard that, he wanted to use his skills to try to save them.

The son of a single parent, Carson graduated from Yale University with a minor degree in psychology and a major in pre-med in 1973. His medical degree was obtained from the University of Michigan in 1977.

Dr. Carson is a recipient of numerous honors and awards including more than 20 honorary doctorate degrees. He is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, the Horatio Alger Society of Distinguished Americans, the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society, and many other prestigious organizations. He sits on many boards including the Board of Directors of Kellogg Company, Costco Wholesale Corporation, Yale Corporation (the governing body of Yale University), and America’s Promise. He is also the president and co-founder of the Carson Scholars Fund which recognizes young people of all backgrounds for exceptional academic and humanitarian accomplishments.

In June 2002, Dr. Carson was diagnosed with a highly aggressive form of prostate cancer. Six weeks later he underwent successful surgery to remove the cancer. He took an active role in the medical and recovery process, asking his medical team questions and examining his own x-rays and scans. Since the surgery there have been no complications, and he did not need to undergo chemotherapy or other radiation treatment.

[/quote]

His book “Gifted Hands” is on my book shelf.

132

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I’m out of the loop on this, but I’d still like to talk about black Americans who’ve made such great contributions to our lives. Can we get back to that? The slavery debate, detailing a tragedy of unprecented and boundless horror, is interesting; but I’d still like to know, and honor those fine individuals.

Professor, being a black man, do you have more about someone who has influenced you, someone who inspired you to accomplish what you have? (This is meant in all sincerity – no insults or whatever intended.)

Dr. Benjamin S. Carson Sr., Director Of Pediatric Surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital. His teachers labeled him as a slow learner in school. They said he was unorganized and didn’t pay attention in class. He came and spoke to my class when I was in high school. After meeting him, I actually started studying for those exams in school.

Ben Carson (born September 18, 1951) is a noted American neurosurgeon. He is said to be one of the first and youngest in the nation at the age of 32 to become the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

In 1987 Carson came to media attention when he separated conjoined twins who were joined at the head and shared part of the same brain. In 2003, he was a member of the surgical team which worked to separate Ladan and Laleh Bijani. When asked why he had performed such risky surgery, he said that he had heard them say that they would rather die than stay conjoined. After having heard that, he wanted to use his skills to try to save them.

The son of a single parent, Carson graduated from Yale University with a minor degree in psychology and a major in pre-med in 1973. His medical degree was obtained from the University of Michigan in 1977.

Dr. Carson is a recipient of numerous honors and awards including more than 20 honorary doctorate degrees. He is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, the Horatio Alger Society of Distinguished Americans, the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society, and many other prestigious organizations. He sits on many boards including the Board of Directors of Kellogg Company, Costco Wholesale Corporation, Yale Corporation (the governing body of Yale University), and America’s Promise. He is also the president and co-founder of the Carson Scholars Fund which recognizes young people of all backgrounds for exceptional academic and humanitarian accomplishments.

In June 2002, Dr. Carson was diagnosed with a highly aggressive form of prostate cancer. Six weeks later he underwent successful surgery to remove the cancer. He took an active role in the medical and recovery process, asking his medical team questions and examining his own x-rays and scans. Since the surgery there have been no complications, and he did not need to undergo chemotherapy or other radiation treatment.

His book “Gifted Hands” is on my book shelf.[/quote]

What an absolutely outstanding individual! I will get a copy of his book right away. Thank you, Professor X!

I wish we’d hear more about great men such as this!!

133

[quote]vroom wrote:
Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.[/quote]

True. Although the horse in which I referred to was the “who was worse wrt slavery”, not the “are there still issues” horse.
But continuing to DWELL on past atrocities will only alienate both sides and further polarize the problem. (as any discussion of the issues seems to do here)

I would rather see the world move toward a better and brighter future, rather than dwell on the past. (and no, prof, I’m not saying that these issues never happened or don’t exist. I’m just saying that it’s unfortunate that the primary (emphasis on primary) focus isn’t on working toward betterment right now. The primary focus seems to be dwelling on past atrocity)

134

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I’m out of the loop on this, but I’d still like to talk about black Americans who’ve made such great contributions to our lives. Can we get back to that? The slavery debate, detailing a tragedy of unprecented and boundless horror, is interesting; but I’d still like to know, and honor those fine individuals.

Professor, being a black man, do you have more about someone who has influenced you, someone who inspired you to accomplish what you have? (This is meant in all sincerity – no insults or whatever intended.)

Dr. Benjamin S. Carson Sr., Director Of Pediatric Surgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital. His teachers labeled him as a slow learner in school. They said he was unorganized and didn’t pay attention in class. He came and spoke to my class when I was in high school. After meeting him, I actually started studying for those exams in school.

Ben Carson (born September 18, 1951) is a noted American neurosurgeon. He is said to be one of the first and youngest in the nation at the age of 32 to become the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

In 1987 Carson came to media attention when he separated conjoined twins who were joined at the head and shared part of the same brain. In 2003, he was a member of the surgical team which worked to separate Ladan and Laleh Bijani. When asked why he had performed such risky surgery, he said that he had heard them say that they would rather die than stay conjoined. After having heard that, he wanted to use his skills to try to save them.

The son of a single parent, Carson graduated from Yale University with a minor degree in psychology and a major in pre-med in 1973. His medical degree was obtained from the University of Michigan in 1977.

Dr. Carson is a recipient of numerous honors and awards including more than 20 honorary doctorate degrees. He is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, the Horatio Alger Society of Distinguished Americans, the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society, and many other prestigious organizations. He sits on many boards including the Board of Directors of Kellogg Company, Costco Wholesale Corporation, Yale Corporation (the governing body of Yale University), and America’s Promise. He is also the president and co-founder of the Carson Scholars Fund which recognizes young people of all backgrounds for exceptional academic and humanitarian accomplishments.

In June 2002, Dr. Carson was diagnosed with a highly aggressive form of prostate cancer. Six weeks later he underwent successful surgery to remove the cancer. He took an active role in the medical and recovery process, asking his medical team questions and examining his own x-rays and scans. Since the surgery there have been no complications, and he did not need to undergo chemotherapy or other radiation treatment.

His book “Gifted Hands” is on my book shelf.[/quote]

I think I remember reading about him in an article in the Journal of American Medicine a year or two ago. You’re lucky to have met him. I’d love to get to meet someone with that much of a story behind their life.

135

[quote]“I love you ProfX, mmmm, mmmm”
“I love you too Vroom, mmmmm, mmmm”
“No, I love your more ProfX, mmmm, mmm”

Do you two kiss with your eyes open?

Or we can keep the fucking horse on life support so we can kick it forever.

Some of us choose to try and move on. (Yes, mindful that those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.) [/quote]

Okay, you are an asshole, but I have to admit that was kind of funny.

The issue of moving on is a strange one. You’ll find that by pretending the past doesn’t exist, and that people aren’t still living it’s long lasting effects, basically makes it impossible to move on.

Why? Because in trying to do that it is generally the majority dismissing the concerns and issues of the minority, which I’m guessing feels like a “par for the course” type of thing.

Everyone would like to move on. Doing that means not trying to blame minorities for having a need to point out the issues that were done are still being done. It also means working to stop doing those things.

Just simply ignoring past and current problems is not a solution. Sure, it might work for you if you ignored everything, but that would be because you aren’t feeling the effects of the issue otherwise.

I know I’m not doing a good job, but just telling everyone to shut up about it because you are tired of hearing about it, when others have to live it, is incredibly unfair and unrealistic.

If other people can live it, you can certainly deal with their need to talk about it.

136

[quote]vroom wrote:
“I love you ProfX, mmmm, mmmm”
“I love you too Vroom, mmmmm, mmmm”
“No, I love your more ProfX, mmmm, mmm”

Do you two kiss with your eyes open?

Or we can keep the fucking horse on life support so we can kick it forever.

Some of us choose to try and move on. (Yes, mindful that those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.)

Okay, you are an asshole, but I have to admit that was kind of funny.

The issue of moving on is a strange one. You’ll find that by pretending the past doesn’t exist, and that people aren’t still living it’s long lasting effects, basically makes it impossible to move on.

Why? Because in trying to do that it is generally the majority dismissing the concerns and issues of the minority, which I’m guessing feels like a “par for the course” type of thing.

Everyone would like to move on. Doing that means not trying to blame minorities for having a need to point out the issues that were done are still being done. It also means working to stop doing those things.

Just simply ignoring past and current problems is not a solution. Sure, it might work for you if you ignored everything, but that would be because you aren’t feeling the effects of the issue otherwise.

I know I’m not doing a good job, but just telling everyone to shut up about it because you are tired of hearing about it, when others have to live it, is incredibly unfair and unrealistic.

If other people can live it, you can certainly deal with their need to talk about it.[/quote]

They can talk about it all they want. (They being anyone on either side of the issue.) At what point does the talking stop and the action start? On both sides of the issue in order to heal? Talking never gets much done. Take any business meeting for example. I don’t have control over everyone else and what they think and do. No amount of me talking to anyone is ever gonna change them. Talk is cheap. But people respect actions. Some of these people that have been talked about in this thread, great examples of action…not talk.

I’m talking I guess about context. Instead of presenting it with BLACK HISTORY MONTH, which to me implies seperation or seperate history, in needs to incorporate into, say, great inventors, or civil rights leaders or sports figures and include people who were great as a diverse group presented together, this presentation could certainly include obstacles that each had to overcome whether it be race or handicap or whatever.

Its just an idea to bring everyone more together and feel like more of a member of the Human Race or American culture.

IMO

137

H’ok, so. Black History Month eh? I have mixed feelings about it, but anyways.

Jimi Hendrix! Chances are, without him, rock wouldn’t have been quite what it is today, or would progress much slower in terms of sound/style if he never did what he did. He was truly amazing when it came to the guitar (ahead of his time with the stuff he played), and I would argue he was and still is the best guitar player ever.

-ghost

138

[quote]GhostOfYourMind wrote:
H’ok, so. Black History Month eh? I have mixed feelings about it, but anyways.

Jimi Hendrix! Chances are, without him, rock wouldn’t have been quite what it is today, or would progress much slower in terms of sound/style if he never did what he did. He was truly amazing when it came to the guitar (ahead of his time with the stuff he played), and I would argue he was and still is the best guitar player ever.

-ghost[/quote]

Without the old blues players like John Lee Hooker, Robert Johnson, B.B. King, there wouldn’t be rock music at all.

139

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
but I don’t think acknowledging accomplishments promotes racism.

Sure doesn’t, lol.

Last time I checked, there is only Black History month, no Hispanic History month, no Native American History month, and you think African Americans had it bad, we pretty much wiped out a whole population of indingenous people, yet no special months for them.[/quote]

Are you serious? Last time you checked, was it in the 60’s? Everyother one of those races you just mentioned have their own month it is just not publicized as much because let’s face it argue or not which race went through the worst times, the black race was definitely a top contender and the most exploited as far the building of this country.

There are so many instances that happened to us as a people that wasn’t even recorded or is just not put out there enough. An example that happened in what I like to call the “Forgotten Southern State” of Oklahoma was the Tulsa Race Riots of 1921 also known as the “Black Wallstreet” (google it and be endulged with a story far more tragic than some stories of the past publicized today)in which if you are not black or from the state of Ok, or have ties to it then you might not know a piece of history that speaks of an entire race of people generating money in their own community get wiped out becuase of envy of prosperity. I was going to just read the thread becuase brothers feel like they have to respond automatically, but your reply might be the seed to a cancer for the future race haters out there growing up. Nothing against you, but I just think you should get your facts straight before you make a bold statement like that.

140

btm,

This is an Internet discussion forum. Think about that in relation to your question…