Black History Month

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]vroom wrote:
“I love you ProfX, mmmm, mmmm”
“I love you too Vroom, mmmmm, mmmm”
“No, I love your more ProfX, mmmm, mmm”

Do you two kiss with your eyes open?

Or we can keep the fucking horse on life support so we can kick it forever.

Some of us choose to try and move on. (Yes, mindful that those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.)

Okay, you are an asshole, but I have to admit that was kind of funny.

The issue of moving on is a strange one. You’ll find that by pretending the past doesn’t exist, and that people aren’t still living it’s long lasting effects, basically makes it impossible to move on.

Why? Because in trying to do that it is generally the majority dismissing the concerns and issues of the minority, which I’m guessing feels like a “par for the course” type of thing.

Everyone would like to move on. Doing that means not trying to blame minorities for having a need to point out the issues that were done are still being done. It also means working to stop doing those things.

Just simply ignoring past and current problems is not a solution. Sure, it might work for you if you ignored everything, but that would be because you aren’t feeling the effects of the issue otherwise.

I know I’m not doing a good job, but just telling everyone to shut up about it because you are tired of hearing about it, when others have to live it, is incredibly unfair and unrealistic.

If other people can live it, you can certainly deal with their need to talk about it.[/quote]

I think u r doing a good job and everything u r saying is very profound. If the people with these concerns that are replying to the thread would step back and jump into the minorities shoes for one day then their opinion would most likely be changed. I gotta say though, man it feels good to have a person speak so eloquently on this matter.

142

Freedom is not where you are but who you are.

Knowledge of your heritage is imparitive to knowing who you are. More importantly, the study of anothers heritage helps me know who I am as it brings out hidden biases, prejudice, and preconcieved notions that would otherwise remain hidden.

Personally, I feel as though I won the lottery when I came out a white male and I suspect that because blacks are still fighting for equality, overcoming the past is difficult. For many, the past is today.

There is hope however, for those who are willing to work through the difficulties for doing so builds lasting relationships that foster respect for fellow man.

I am conviced that we as american people can and should embrace and celebrate the good things of our own heritage while paying credence to the contributions of others.

I am having a thousand thoughts on this subject and feel like I’m being a bit random but as someone who is not pro this or that but simply pro people here is my short list and salute to some of the great African American inventor/contributors (hopefully we can someday drop all the sensitive prefixes).

Air conditioning, Fredrick Jones, 1949
blood plasma, Charles Drew, ----
plasma bag, Charles Drew, about 1945
fire extinguisher, T. Marshall, 1872
gas mask, Garrett Morgan, 1914
peanut butter, G.W. Carver, 1896
refrigerator, J. Standard, 1895
rotary engine, Andrew Beard, 1892

Source: An African American Bibliography, New York State Library Series (The University of the State of New York: The State Education Dept., The NY State Library: Albany, NY, 12230),January 1991

All races must, IMO, learn to serve one another without fear. Funny thing is that this takes the greatest of strength and character. We all think we’re strong and we’re all characters.

I’m on the edge of preaching a sermon so I suppose it would be best to stop here. Peace out,

holmdog

143

I greatly admire Thurgood Marshall. He was arguably the greatest American attorney of the 20th Century. People think of him for Brown v. Bd. of Education. But they forget that it was the result of years of effort and careful planning, primarily by Marshall as chief counsel of the NAACP. He used each of the cases leading up to Brown to pick away at Plessey v. Ferguson’s separate but equal rule. For example, he won Shelley v. Kraemer, which made restrictive covenants on property (e.g. you cannot sell this property to non-whites) unenforceable.

His career as a jurist, first on the Second Circuit and then on the Supreme Court, was less distinguished, likely because he was better suited to being an advocate than an impartial aribiter. (As an aside, his nomination to the Second Circuit was held up in the Senate by former Klansman, Sen. Bob Byrd, among other Southern Democrats).

And the great Jackie Robinson, an extraordinary man. A class act all around. He showed people that on a “level” playing field a black man could be more than the equal of whites – even when subject to sickening amount of abuse that made the field uneven. Smart as hell, too, apparently.

MLK (rightly) get a lot of credit for the success of the civil rights movement. But without these two men, it would have been impossible.

144

[quote]drilldaddy_99 wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
but I don’t think acknowledging accomplishments promotes racism.

Sure doesn’t, lol.

Last time I checked, there is only Black History month, no Hispanic History month, no Native American History month, and you think African Americans had it bad, we pretty much wiped out a whole population of indingenous people, yet no special months for them.

Sorry to disagree. http://www.diversitycentral.com/heritage_month.html

November is Native American Heritage Month.

September 15 to October 15 Hispanic Heritage Month

March National Women’s History Month

May Asian Pacific American Heritage and Older Americans Month

June Gay Lesbian Pride Month

October National Disability Employment Awareness Month[/quote]

My bad, looks like the other heritages need to get a good PR person, lol

145

[quote]PushSteel wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
but I don’t think acknowledging accomplishments promotes racism.

Are you serious? Last time you checked, was it in the 60’s? Everyother one of those races you just mentioned have their own month it is just not publicized as much because let’s face it argue or not which race went through the worst times, the black race was definitely a top contender and the most exploited as far the building of this country.

.[/quote]

I see my error, thanks for clearing it up.

Which one went through the worse times? Kind of hard without asking those who lived during those times, IMO.

146

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
PushSteel wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
but I don’t think acknowledging accomplishments promotes racism.

Are you serious? Last time you checked, was it in the 60’s? Everyother one of those races you just mentioned have their own month it is just not publicized as much because let’s face it argue or not which race went through the worst times, the black race was definitely a top contender and the most exploited as far the building of this country.

.

I see my error, thanks for clearing it up.

Which one went through the worse times? Kind of hard without asking those who lived during those times, IMO.

[/quote]

Thanks for being an intelligent man and admitting fault brother. I have, however talked to mine and other friends’ ancestors as far as the black race goes, but have not for the Jews or Native Americans.

147

From the Tuskegee Airmen website. I think it is one of the more compelling stories of WW2.

There were 992 pilots trained at Tuskegee, Alabama while over 10,000 Black maintenance personnel trained at Chanute field in Illinois. Five hundred fifty bomber pilots and their crews were trained but the war ended before they were deployed overseas.

The remaining 445 fighter pilots and their crews entered combat in Europe, the Mediterranean and North Africa. The Tuskegee Airmen were forced to operate as segregated units and not allowed to train or fight alongside their white fellow countrymen. To identify themselves they painted the tails of their aircraft red, thus becoming the “Red Tails”. The Tuskegee Airmen “Red Tails” carried their hopes and dreams of equality for themselves and their thirteen million African American countrymen into battle.

Initially shunned, due to their color, the Red Tails superior performance rapidly became legendary and they soon became the requested white bomber pilots fighter escorts. Flying over 15,000 sorties in 1500 plus missions they compiled an outstanding combat record.

As bomber escorts, the Tuskegee Airmen never lost a bomber to enemy fighters; a record no other fighter group achieved. Sixty six gave their lives in combat and 32 were captured as prisoners of war. They were recognized by receiving over 850 medals including the Presidential Unit Citation, the highest award that can be given a military unit.

Read that part again. NEVER LOST A BOMBER they escorted. At the end of the war bomber crews fought to get escorted by these guys after initially not wanting to fly with them. Main reason they didn’t leave the bombers to chase the Germans. They stayed with them. Great story of bravery.

148

Hedo,

When I was younger, I used to read all kinds of WWII books.

I love stories like the one you related. It is even more moving when such acts are done by those that were discounted or disadvantaged at the time.

Nice post.

149

as was already mentioned…GW carver, MLK…frederick douglas…

i to agree that i think a ‘black history’ month is rather divisive. I know the intent is meant to be good, but why would we want to separate history? And no one can say honestly that a ‘white, male, history’ month would go over nearly as well as ‘herstory month’ or ‘black history man.’

150

[quote]vroom wrote:
At what point does the talking stop and the action start?

btm,

This is an Internet discussion forum. Think about that in relation to your question…[/quote]

I hear ya. I guess I’ve always been a proponent of any change I wish to see starts with me.

I’ll stop asking rhetorical questions.
When I feel like it, I’ll lift something heavy instead. The rhetorical workout. ha!

151

[quote]Diomede wrote:
as was already mentioned…GW carver, MLK…frederick douglas…

i to agree that i think a ‘black history’ month is rather divisive. I know the intent is meant to be good, but why would we want to separate history? And no one can say honestly that a ‘white, male, history’ month would go over nearly as well as ‘herstory month’ or ‘black history man.’[/quote]

Every month has been about white history month. White history is what is taught in schools, what has been drilled into people’s heads since they were young. There’s no reason to have a white history month.

152

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Every month has been about white history month. White history is what is taught in schools, what has been drilled into people’s heads since they were young. There’s no reason to have a white history month.[/quote]

I’ve always been torn about this.

Do you really think every month is “white history month” instead of every month just being “important shit that has happened month”? I mean, when I learned about the civil war I learned about Frederick Douglas, the Buffalo Soldiers, ect. When we learned about the civil rights era, I learned about Jackie Robinson, MLK and Rosa Parks, ect. When we studied inventors, I learned about George Washington Carver. Shouldn’t important Black figures be incorporated into “history”? Does it deminish their accomplishments to separate them from the other important people/events we learn?

153

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Diomede wrote:
as was already mentioned…GW carver, MLK…frederick douglas…

i to agree that i think a ‘black history’ month is rather divisive. I know the intent is meant to be good, but why would we want to separate history? And no one can say honestly that a ‘white, male, history’ month would go over nearly as well as ‘herstory month’ or ‘black history man.’

Every month has been about white history month. White history is what is taught in schools, what has been drilled into people’s heads since they were young. There’s no reason to have a white history month.[/quote]

So we shouldn’t try and incorporate the two, why? Why do you want to keep us separate and not one people?

154

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Diomede wrote:
as was already mentioned…GW carver, MLK…frederick douglas…

i to agree that i think a ‘black history’ month is rather divisive. I know the intent is meant to be good, but why would we want to separate history? And no one can say honestly that a ‘white, male, history’ month would go over nearly as well as ‘herstory month’ or ‘black history man.’

Every month has been about white history month. White history is what is taught in schools, what has been drilled into people’s heads since they were young. There’s no reason to have a white history month.[/quote]

Your first 2 sentences are pure horseshit.

155

[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.

Also, when people quit pretending as if all issues are resolved and that issues of the past aren’t directly linked with issues of today.[/quote]

Professor X I agree that there are still problems with race, but in my humble opinion the correct way to solve the problems is to say what the problems are and discuss them. Not just say problems exist. I believe if nothing else the posts on race from white posters are more specific. And it would be easier to address the problems the white posters are posting.

157

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.

Also, when people quit pretending as if all issues are resolved and that issues of the past aren’t directly linked with issues of today.

Professor X I agree that there are still problems with race, but in my humble opinion the correct way to solve the problems is to say what the problems are and discuss them. Not just say problems exist. I believe if nothing else the posts on race from white posters are more specific. And it would be easier to address the problems the white posters are posting.

[/quote]

The problems the white posters are posting? What problems are these that you read from “white posters”? Please post the problems that are so easily read from “white posters”. Please also post what you don’t understand from “black posters”. How have these issues not been discussed by “black posters”? How would you adress the problems that “white posters” are posting?

158

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Now why keep kicking a dead horse?

Unfortunately, the horse of racism is still breathing… and this whole issue is just part of one long continuum from atrocities in the past to what appears to be increasing equity today.

When the horse finally dies, we can stop kicking the damned thing.

Also, when people quit pretending as if all issues are resolved and that issues of the past aren’t directly linked with issues of today.

Professor X I agree that there are still problems with race, but in my humble opinion the correct way to solve the problems is to say what the problems are and discuss them. Not just say problems exist. I believe if nothing else the posts on race from white posters are more specific. And it would be easier to address the problems the white posters are posting.

The problems the white posters are posting? What problems are these that you read from “white posters”? Please post the problems that are so easily read from “white posters”. Please also post what you don’t understand from “black posters”. How have these issues not been discussed by “black posters”? How would you adress the problems that “white posters” are posting?[/quote]

White posters are posting complaints about double standards. Where it is impolite for a white person to use a word and it is acceptable for a black person to use the same word. Where a white person disguises himself as a black person and is reprimanded. But a black person can dress as a white person and make a movie as such. Where a black Mayor can make a statement that it will be all one race and receive no problems is am example of what I am speaking. And we have no examples of what would happen if a white Mayor did the same, at least since the 60?s.
Those are a few of the issues that I remember that white posters have made.
The issues as I remember that the black posters have made are general statements such as there are problems. Out of the article Denial and privilege the writer clouded a few good points with a lot of hooey, in my humble opinion.
I think to state clearly with no malice is the way to solve problems.
Peace

159

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
White posters are posting complaints about double standards. Where it is impolite for a white person to use a word and it is acceptable for a black person to use the same word. Where a white person disguises himself as a black person and is reprimanded. But a black person can dress as a white person and make a movie as such. Where a black Mayor can make a statement that it will be all one race and receive no problems is am example of what I am speaking. And we have no examples of what would happen if a white Mayor did the same, at least since the 60?s.
Those are a few of the issues that I remember that white posters have made.
The issues as I remember that the black posters have made are general statements such as there are problems. Out of the article Denial and privilege the writer clouded a few good points with a lot of hooey, in my humble opinion.
I think to state clearly with no malice is the way to solve problems.
Peace

[/quote]

So, the “white posters” have made it clear to you that they are being “oppressed” by double standards? Those black people sure are screwing it up for the white guy, huh? Let’s discuss specifics. Let’s talk about racial profiling that has only recently begun to cut back a little. This was fun while I was growing up. Is that specific enough for you? Let’s discuss the Tuskeegee Experiment. That’s real specific, right? Let’s discuss being followed around grocery stores because of skin color. Is that not specific enough? Tell me, what do you want to talk about?

I think things are constantly changing. However, the idea that there are people like you who feel that double standards are holding back the “white people” because you can’t say “nigger”, make a really good public black joke or because it is understood by many that no matter what, the majority is still the majority in America and that deeply rooted biases are slow changing…it just leaves me a little befuddled.

160

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
White posters are posting complaints about double standards. Where it is impolite for a white person to use a word and it is acceptable for a black person to use the same word. Where a white person disguises himself as a black person and is reprimanded. But a black person can dress as a white person and make a movie as such. Where a black Mayor can make a statement that it will be all one race and receive no problems is am example of what I am speaking. And we have no examples of what would happen if a white Mayor did the same, at least since the 60?s.
Those are a few of the issues that I remember that white posters have made.
The issues as I remember that the black posters have made are general statements such as there are problems. Out of the article Denial and privilege the writer clouded a few good points with a lot of hooey, in my humble opinion.
I think to state clearly with no malice is the way to solve problems.
Peace

So, the “white posters” have made it clear to you that they are being “oppressed” by double standards? Those black people sure are screwing it up for the white guy, huh? Let’s discuss specifics. Let’s talk about racial profiling that has only recently begun to cut back a little. This was fun while I was growing up. Is that specific enough for you? Let’s discuss the Tuskeegee Experiment. That’s real specific, right? Let’s discuss being followed around grocery stores because of skin color. Is that not specific enough? Tell me, what do you want to talk about?

I think things are constantly changing. However, the idea that there are people like you who feel that double standards are holding back the “white people” because you can’t say “nigger”, make a really good public black joke or because it is understood by many that no matter what, the majority is still the majority in America and that deeply rooted biases are slow changing…it just leaves me a little befuddled.[/quote]

I do not believe the white man is being oppressed by anyone other than themselves, oppressed is your word. I do not feel the double standard is holding me back from anything, but I do feel that double standards exist.
I agree with you in regards to racial profiling. I know there are communities that do have racist cops, we should seek them out and fire them. I also do not feel just because a white cop is rough with a black perp. means he is racist. When I grew up it did not matter your color, if you spit on a cop you were surly going to get your ass kicked.
I agree with you about the Tuskegee Experiment. I could not picture any one I know that would think that a good thing. It was a terrible wrong and I hope the guilty paid with paid with their life.

161

[quote]doogie wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

Every month has been about white history month. White history is what is taught in schools, what has been drilled into people’s heads since they were young. There’s no reason to have a white history month.

I’ve always been torn about this.

Do you really think every month is “white history month” instead of every month just being “important shit that has happened month”? I mean, when I learned about the civil war I learned about Frederick Douglas, the Buffalo Soldiers, ect. When we learned about the civil rights era, I learned about Jackie Robinson, MLK and Rosa Parks, ect. When we studied inventors, I learned about George Washington Carver. Shouldn’t important Black figures be incorporated into “history”? Does it deminish their accomplishments to separate them from the other important people/events we learn? [/quote]

Excellent point! Separating great leaders, or those who had large contributions to history, by race is a fragmenting approach. To be truly equal this should all be in all history books as “history” and not Black, Asian, Latino, etc history. At the point that this actually occurs it will be time to drop black history month because it will no loner be needed.