Yeah, Shultz actually choked several people out with that move in Wrestling competitions (sometimes getting DQ’d for doing so). He had a very specific way of hitting it that is different than how most people do it though.
Here is Hughes showing how it’s done.
Here is Josh Barnett showing it in more detail (but from s funky camera angle):
I love that there is a guy like Josh Barnett out there. He could teach you some chokes, or how to throw a Fisherman Buster.
Thanks Sento. That’s basically what I was trying to get across, you just did a better job of it.
Great thread
But getting back to the concern of not receiving a stripe, let that alone be a lesson to you… However you may want to receive it.
Perhaps you aren’t that good. Period.
Perhaps this is what will encourage you to improve, or encourage you to quit and pursue something else.
Maybe your professor just hasn’t taken note of your improvements too seriously.
But in the end, we should only concern ourselves with what’s most important no? And what could that be more important than practicing BJJ at a BJJ Academy?
If you did indeed namely join a BJJ Academy to get stripes on your belt, you’ve missed the boat entirely. Which in turn dignifies the absence of your stripes because they should be deserved, not expected.
To me your overt concern about the absence of white tape on your belt tells me forthright that you aren’t that good of a student as you might infer.
You learn, train, and execute to achieve a submission, domination… Who gives a fuck about the stripe?
Yes yes, it does lead to a belt promotion… But why even care about that? I’m not denoting it’s importance, but pointing out your futile attachment.
If you truly improve, become a real disciple of the art, and strike terror in the hearts of your sparring partners (dont hurt them) the belt progression is a given. That is not under your control, thus pointless to fret over.
What you can do is continually improve, if you choose to, and just become a better man out of it. Are you stepping on the mats thinking ‘oh golly, tonight might be the day that I finally receive my stripe’? If so, gtfo.
Before you even step on the mat, try thinking about how many gallons of heart, technique and sweat poured over it. Humbly step on and hope that you can at least absorb a droplet of the knowledge that’s constantly whirring in the room. Fuck a belt son, hit a d’arce. Fuck a stripe, pass guard.
Fuck, I just amped myself up
Speaking of stuff poured on the mat;
It couldn’t hurt to show up early and mop the mats.
I get what you are saying and I think it is hard to explain what my actual concern is… its not the tape… but if tape is how progress is rewarded and I am not seeing any tape and can’t figure out why … it’s not the tape that concerns me it is the lack of knowing why… does that make sense? I guess I have just never been involved in anything where you don’t have more overt feedback.
I guess I am trying to make it clear… if you have an instrument to measure progress… it should be a concern if I am not meeting that metric, no?
It seems you have missed the entirety of what I tried to convey.
Your focus = why aren’t I getting tape on my belt?
My focus = how do I strangle davehorn more efficiently than before? It’s easy to tap him by choking him, let’s try to catch him with an arm bar this round.
Your focus = what do I need to show to impress my professor?
My focus = thank you for teaching me, professor
Your focus = I need someone… Something to stroke my ego so I feel validated. Like tape on my belt.
Tape on your belt is not an instrument to measure progress.
More fluid transitions, more efficient attacks and defenses are. Respect for the art and the process would be more conducive to progress in martial Arts… Compared to the white belt of a couple months wondering about his next stripe.
You seem set on stressing about this. I can think of few endeavors where you get more direct, immediate feedback than than bjj.
Example: As a bigger, stronger, somewhat athletic guy with halfway decent posture, grip and base, getting and holding top position are some areas of my game where I find I do ok.
However if I get caught in KOB or side control, I struggle to escape. Last open mat I said to myself, ‘I’m gonna roll with that big, aggressive purple belt who has a strong pressure game and instead of scrambling like hell to get top I’m gonna let him put me on bottom and then get out.’
Damn if after a while of hating my life under his KOB I wasn’t able to start recovering to closed guard a few times. That is what I call immediate feedback. Prof wasn’t there to see it, but I don’t care. I know I got out, therefore I know I can get out next time.
As far as other feedback, whenever I roll with anyone better than me I make it a habit to ask for one specific thing I can work on, technique or concept. I don’t ask how I’m doing, that’s just asking for a pat on the head.
Some people will be ‘nice’ and say you’re doing great, just keep grinding and you’ll be a beast or whatever. Others will say focus on such and such (taking away space, maintaining posture, not straight-arming etc). Others will take a minute to try to teach you a pass, defence, sub or whatever. I’ll then pick something and roll with intent trying to work that in.
You have said you are doing all of these things. I really don’t know what else to suggest. It’s a looong game.
I try to do this in most aspects of my life.
The key here is to accept and appreciate all points given to you. Wether or not you disagree or find it insulting you should always thank them and make note of it. This way people will be more open to telling you things next time.
Okay, my question has been taken waaaay out of context. All I was looking for was if I should worry about it or if they’re are ways to better understand and you made some crazy assumptions while building yourself up in that scenario.
THis is good advice for sure. Don’t worry I’m not stressing nearly as much as Jarvab portrays. I was looking into insight like this and instead it got built into some straw man scenario. If I never got promoted at a job I wouldn’t be blaming my boss - but I would be looking for ways to develop better insight for self awareness. That’s all I was looking for lol.
100% agree. I love when I get feedback from people who are knowledgeable. I don’t think it’s ever been insulting. Even if it doesn’t work for me it’s interesting to know they’re perspective.
Not sure what I assumed, but I see that you’ve edited your post.
You are worried about not getting stripes.
I merely said that your attention shouldn’t be in getting stripes, but improving your game.
If you asked how you could improve your game, then would’ve received a different answer.
In your scenario there were assumptions made about why I was asking about a stripe. You assumed that I am worrying all class about stripes while you worry about tapping people. Couldn’t be further from the truth.
I deleted parts of the thread but didn’t change any content. I was seeing if I could delete the thread since you took I so out of context (new to the board).
The question was about how to know why so I could improve it. I found that professionally it’s not the things you know you need to improve - it’s those you don’t know that hurt you. I was looking into insight to see what I was missing since what I noticed as far as far as progress doesn’t seem to be accurate (tapping people consistently who promote faster). Most the other people gave me good insight while you built some fake scenario about what I think about in class.
Well, seems like somewhere down the line you got your jimmies rustled enough to delete all your threads.
Don’t let me deter your journey david. I hope you collect those stripes and show em proud.
Positional sparring/training beats free rolling in pretty much every aspect other than maybe fun factor. I do very little free rolling and have my students do very little free rolling anymore. I’ll throw it in at the end of class for fun from time to time and still make students do it on Belt tests so I can see what areas they need to work most on, but the majority of time and energy is spent on technical drilling/learning and positional sparring/training. WAY higher return on investment in terms of skill application and strategy and faster accumulation of experience gained than in free rolling (plus it prevents students from becoming or staying one dimensional).
I’d strongly suggest shifting as much of your training to positional sparring and away from free rolling as you are able to (I realize that as a student you have less control over this). And just to clarify, positional sparring is a very flexible and all inclusive methodology. So, it could be anything from you starting on bottom/top of KOB, to starting from already entangled in an armbar/Spider Web position, being in a Greco Clinch, in on a single, etc… Whatever the “position” you begin in both partners are free to do whatever they want (obviously sometimes it’s more clear like “one person is trying to finish the armbar while the other is trying to defend/escape the armbar”). If either is successful in imposing their will, you restart in the position and keep going till the time limit you have set is up, then you switch roles.
I like this idea. I was working with a newer guy (even to me) and we did positional sparring and he said he got a lot out of it.
Thanks for the help!
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Again, I am not as worried about the tape as the fact that I am not getting better according to my coach. The only metric I can judge myself on is increased taps or survival against upper belts…from what I have read it could be a number of things. I definitely feel pretty confident against other white belts and decent against blues. Purples is where I usually am a fish out of water. So my personal goal right now is going to be to improve my defense against purples.
I also see a lot of conflicting advise on specializing in one sub really well vs getting good at them all. Of course even if you have one specialty you want to be proficient in the others - I get that. When I competed in a striking art punch-punch-round kick to the face was what I was known for. Everything else was stuff I aspired to be good at, but that was my bread and butter. That is how I am currently feeling about RNC.
Completely agree. We do a fair bit of live drilling/positional sparring, but I wish we did a bit more. Most classes run technique teaching, 10 minutes live drills the 3× 5 minute free rolls. Some times the live drill portion gets a bit glossed over.
Open mats are largely takedowns, free rolls and some light MMA rounds due to the fun factor, but I’ve been thinking about trying to sell some more drilling time. It’s sort of like a meat and veg vs dessert type thing…
Glad you found it helpful.
In terms of learning all submissions vs specializing, I think that depends on a few factors:
What is your focus? (Self Defehse, tournaments, MMA, just fun/exercise, etc…)
Do you plan to teach or is this just a personal growth/development thing?
What is your bodytype?
In suggesting positional sparring as a means to be “well rounded” I am not suggesting that one needs to be (or even seek to be) amazing at every submission out there. There will be certain submissions, escapes, sweeps, etc… that each individual feels works best for them based on things like limb lengths, body type, size relative to ones opponent, etc… Even some of the best and most knowledgeable grapplers in the World simply cannot make some of the most basic submissions work (for example Ricardo Liborio can’t do Triangle Chokes in most cases because his legs are too thick and short).
What I am suggesting is that one should seek to be comfortable in any position they find themselves in (rather than just being a “top game” person like many wrestlers tend to be, or a “guard player” like many flexible/smaller people tend to be)", seek to at least understand how to defend against or prevent their opponent’s attacks, and seek to maximize the efficiency and effectiveness of the skills that best suit them as an individual. This is the “Art” portion of the Martial Art.
If you look at any high level Jiu-Jitsu fighter/player none of them do every technique out there. In contrast, they are all pretty much known for using specific techniques and/or being extremely dangerous in certain positions. Take Roger Gracie for example, if he gets Mount on you, you’re pretty much guaranteed to get their Cross Choked or Armbarred, even at the elite level. There are however many viable submissions from Mount that he could potentially do, he has simply found the ones that work best for him and developed his skill in those techniques to the point where he is practically unstoppable with them. The same can be said of just about every high level athlete.
As Bruce Lee said, “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 techniques, but the man who has practiced 1 technique 10,000 times.”
Now, if one aspires to one day teach, then their knowledge and understanding of submissions needs to be more broad as they will undoubtedly have students with different body types than their own who will gravitate towards different techniques and they will therefore need to have an understanding of those skills to help their students maximize their ability in them.