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Even if it’s environmental, environment is almost if not impossible to change
Maybe. And I agree on many broad points that there are absolutely differences. I’m definitely not “color blind” and only barely politically correct. If I used most of my daily common terms in the offhand way that I speak, I’d most likely be kicked off of the site.
But then I look at some other factors like the development and change in size of the motor cortex that comes from physical activity, or the plasticity of the brain in general and say “Eh, well maybe they studied people who were brought up in an environment that placed emphasis on development in that direction”.
The issue I take with most of his stuff is starting at a negative conclusion that is utterly unsubstantiated (like the swimming) and working backwards to the proof. Or the intelligence, which is then extrapolated to create more negative conclusions.
I hear you on that. I self edit too, mainly for the sake of interaction, as some people would probably find my usual jargon at least unpleasant and not conducive to conversation. In virtually every environment I’ve ever worked, you aren’t one of the boys until you break the N word barrier.
And although I can’t speak for everybody, I’m pretty sure that by agreement, what we converse, argue about, and even threaten with violence over (it happens) here, stays here. I, for one, like your opinions on these subjects because it seems that a lot of them are derived about the same way most of mine are- A good bit of reading, a good bit of people watching, and strong intuition.
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[quote=“therajraj, post:580, topic:228119”]
I read your argument before I just didn’t recall it when you first posted it. But you’re just posting Lewontin’s fallacy over and over again.
The problem here is the assumption that genetic variation within a human group is comparable to genetic variation between human groups. [emphasis mine] [/quote]
Am I correct in inferring that human group is a synonym for race? If that is the case, sigh. But also, it compels me to ask: Would you mind providing a definition of the term human group?
Does this mean you do not see dogs, wolves, and coyotes as separate species since there is less mtDNA differences between them than between ethnic groups of human beings?
I’m pretty sure you posted links from Amren yourself 
Inner city schools don’t have pools and thus swim teams. That’s my layman’s guess on the lack of black swimming athletes. It’s a rich kid sport like tennis or hockey.
My first W2 job at 14 years old was in a machine shop after school. I had to do all the jobs in the shop the machinists were too good for: Shoveling chips, painting, deburring, countersinking, garbage etc… They called me “Boy” lol. Until one day we got a shipment of 1,000 eighty pound ductile iron valve castings that the caster had the molds misaligned on. They all had a thin bit that needed ground off around the whole perimeter. After four hours of grinding those damn things I showed up to the break room at lunch just painted gray. I got demoted from “boy” to “n#&$÷=”. The name stuck.
You’re probably right.
You started out one step ahead! AND they let you countersink.
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Now when you watch sports you won’t Help but noticing the players are disproportionately black, coaches overwhelmingly white and owners disproportionately Jewish!
Edit : and Asians nowhere to be found!
My sports watching is strictly limited to professional hockey, gymnastics, PIAA wrestling, and swimming.
I don’t know why you keep drumming on about this black athlete stuff.
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I did grinding, gofering, sweeping at a fab shop summer before 1st college sem. Had a mid 20s weight lifter fabricator I had never spoken to, want to fight, since l was an uppity college boy. Parents were postman and hair dresser haha.
I swam competitively 5 years in a city pool that literally had single digit whites out of a couple hundred blacks using the pool at same time. Never saw any blacks ‘swimming’ per se, only splashing. IOW - they had a facility, but chose not to compete or even learn to swim. There wae one set of twins who were black & older than l, and they went to Dartmouth and swam there also.
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I’m curious as to why, then, Indians fare so poorly in competitive athletics (not only popular US sports, but Olympic events), as world class scientists (check out Nobel Laureates in Chemistry and Physics, top researchers at US institutions, and lead author publications in high impact journals), and as popular entertainers. Based on your assertions about genetic makeup and races, it seems like your arguments would put your own race in poor lighting.
(Basically, as I have read this thread, two things keep coming to mind: 1) Rajraj has absolutely no ability to read and understand science. 2) Why would he want to argue what he does? What possible good could come of it?)
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I personally think Poland and Polish people are cool.
But I don’t think that anyone who believes themselves “Nordic” would say that someone from Poland is “Nordic.”
“There is, however, no doubt that various races, when carefully compared, differ much from each other…”
-Darwin
What do you think Darwins motivation was?
Nordic people can be found all over Europe, including France, Spain, Russia, Italy, etc.
Darwin knew nothing of genetics (nor did other scientists at his time), and was a product of his time. I don’t mean to discount his scientific contributions, but he held the belief that traits associated with white civilizations were superior to those associated with tribal civilizations. He was, likely, racist, although again he was a product of his time and held beliefs that were commonly held at his time.
His motivation, I suspect, was to reinforce his belief that he was from, not only different, but superior, descendants compared to “less advanced” peoples.
I want to believe in as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible even if some of those things are uncomfortable.
Speciation is not defined by differences in the amount of shared mtDNA. Are you now offering this as a definition of race? Because if you are, it will be a steep hill to climb.
We’ve covered this assumption–‘the way the world is right now reflects eternal, unchanging facts about the way things are’–and how short-sighted it is, before. But I guess we have to cover it again…
If we were having this discussion 80 years ago or so, we would notice no such thing about professional sports. That’s when Jewish men so thoroughly dominated basketball, people like you assumed they must have some sort of genetic predisposition for doing so. And not surprisingly, those predispositions were consistent with stereotypic views of the Jewish ‘race:’
"Today we refer to stereotypes about Black men to explain why they dominate basketball, but this is an after-the-fact justification. At the time, very different characteristics — stereotypes associated with Jews — were used to explain why they dominated professional teams. Paul Gallico, sports editor of the NY Daily News in the 1930s, explained that “the game places a premium on an alert, scheming mind, flashy trickiness, artful dodging and general smart aleckness.” All stereotypes about Jews. Moreover, he argued, Jews were rather short and so had “God-given better balance and speed.” Yep. There was a time when we thought being short was an advantage in the sport of basketball.
Never underestimate the power of institutions and how much things can change."
"On March 3, 1934, a group of young Jewish men helped change basketball history. On that night, fans in New York City watched with anticipation for the winner of a game between New York University (NYU) and City College of New York (CCNY).
The New York Times stated that the 20th annual meeting between the two schools had “never before … aroused such widespread interest,” as both teams entered the contest undefeated. The demand for tickets was such that promoters began a series of doubleheaders at Madison Square Garden the following season and turned New York City into the center of the basketball world.
The next year Newsweek ran a story on basketball’s rise to prominence and declared the sport was one “at which Jews excel."
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